ornery Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Anyone ridden an R1200R? How does the FZ-07 stack up? It's twice the price (or more), is it twice the bike? “The real cycle you're working on is a cycle called yourself.” — Robert M. Pirsig (Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomascrown Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Apples and orangutans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ornery Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Bah, both are naked bikes. The BMW is 100 pounds heavier, so would need the extra HP to lug it around. I'm thinking the lower seat height and adjustable suspension would be the huge plus. But, twice the bike? Hmmm... “The real cycle you're working on is a cycle called yourself.” — Robert M. Pirsig (Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I can't say I've ridden one (doubt many have) but I would venture to say the BMW handles better than the Yamaha but does it handle twice as good? I doubt twice as good, maybe twice as smooth, twice the comfort but with all the premium stuff on an R1200R to make up for not being twice this or that, like (for starters) a computer that limits tire spin when you lean it too far ... it just may monetarily be worth twice the price. I don't know how much all their niceties actually cost but I'm sure it's not cheap. Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ornery Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Only reason I'm asking, is because the FZ-07 doesn't seem to be quite the right bike for me. Granted, I've only ridden it (or any bike at all) for three months and 1,700 miles, but something just doesn't seem right. I just read this FZ-09 swapped out for Street Triple thread, and sort of feel the same way as its author. If somebody told me the FZ-07 was actually quicker, or more nimble, I wouldn't be surprised. But, one review of the BMW said you feel like you're seated "in the bike". That sounds preferable than being perched on it, like I feel on the FZ-07. I think next spring I'm going to go try a few different bikes. All I wanted in a bike was to be upright, nimble, smooth and quiet. I got that with the FZ-07, as well as an awesome price. But... am I fickle or what? :-/ “The real cycle you're working on is a cycle called yourself.” — Robert M. Pirsig (Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomascrown Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I have the exact opposite preference. The last thing I want is to be "entangled" in a bike, especially with how I ride. Being perched atop feels more natural to me. You definitely sit "in" an R1200R, and also R1200RS. The FZ07 in terms of ergos is closer to an S1000R. The R1200 has a super low effort hydraulic clutch, electronic suspension, and a much longer wheelbase. It's no doubt the more comfortable bike for crap roads, and general use. The BMW dealerships won't hesitate to give you a test ride. Try it out, and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruizin Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 And the R1200R will shock you with how fast it is. the bike hauls ass. Yamaha MT-10 ForumYamaha Tracer 900 Forum Yamaha Ténéré 700 Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalv Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Sounds to me like you should first probably spend about 1K and upgrade both front and rear suspension to premium. That itself will most likely "shock" you with how skilled you are on the FZ 07 before you sign up for a bike which is 100 pounds more with a lot more power. That Boxer engine has quite the legacy(though this one is new and water cooled) and I didn't read that article you linked to, but 'twice the bike' has so many variables. A BMW dealer will most likely let you test ride one. Only you can decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkH Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I apologize but I LOL'd when I read the topic title. I visit here at least once a week. Got any questions, ask and I will answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahaha Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 "Variety is the spice of life" Most of the fun in this sport is experiencing different bikes. Beemers are nice but expensive. Talked to a fellow recently with a bmw sport bike. He spent $1800 on a full service. Yikes. He can't even reset the oil change notification without a trip to the dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kakusaizou Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 The R1200R has a banana seat, no contest, FZ wins. A lot of bikes in this class have banana seats, weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ornery Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 If I were to buy the BMW, I'd just chalk up the GS-911 Diagnostic Tool as part of the purchase price. When I was shopping for my "retirement car", I kicked around buying a 2006 Mercedes S500 instead of a Town Car. Same year, same miles were the same price, so it was very tempting. The dealer service and parts prices put me off, so I went with the Ford. If the R1200R has the same service issue, it's off my radar. I've read where riders develop an affinity for their bike. The FZ-07 is the first vehicle I've ever purchased new, but it doesn't feel like it's mine. All the used cars I've purchased felt like they were part of me from the first time I detailed them. I keep them all till they die, never selling any of them. The FZ-07 doesn't seem like it will be around for the long haul. It doesn't seem like a bike that would be restored in the future... Not a classic. Since it doesn't feel right to me anyway, I just think I ought to find the one for me, if there is such a thing. As for the FZ-07 not being in the same league as the R1200R, well it's in the same league as the FZ-09, which is in the same league as the Street Triple. And, I've seen a few people kicking around buying the Street Triple instead of the R1200R. [video src=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnc106hH2tQ] “The real cycle you're working on is a cycle called yourself.” — Robert M. Pirsig (Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkH Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I don't care what blog and/or amateur writer bs you are reading. The FZ07 IS NOT in the same league as the FZ09. This day and age where anyone gets to write anything they want, and it goes out into the ether for any unsuspecting person to read and absorb is a very dangerous age. I visit here at least once a week. Got any questions, ask and I will answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thestache Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Both are naked bikes, and that is where the comparison ends. The BMW has twice the price tag, app. 500cc more, electronic ride options, standard ABS that can be switched off Brembo brakes...need I go on, there is a reason it costs twice as much, and part of that is also the name behind it, same as a Ducati, Triumph, or even a Harley...part of the price is in the name I have not ridden it, but I guess it comes down to what you are looking for in a bike. Another thing to consider that these experts NEVER mention, is the below article which lists Yamaha as the most reliable motorcycle on the roadw, BMW is last in reliability http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/22/consumer-reports-motorcycle-reliability-report/ http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/consumer-reports-on-motorcycles-buy-victory-for-fun-yamaha-for-reliability.html/?a=viewall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Whatever you do don't ride a triple. It will ruin all other configurations. Grin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassecou Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 There is absolutely NO comparison between both bikes, as everything is different, price, comfort, electronics, weight, suspension and so on. As BMW are top of the line bikes (so is pricey parts and labor), the FZ is a cheap son of a b%tch. I will even say very cheap. I like my FZ, but compare to all the other bikes I have owned, it is cheap. Ever wonder why Yamaha sell them for $7000? Its not to make us happy. Its just because its a cheap bike. I am talking Japanese cheap, not Chinese cheap mind you. So comparing it to a beemer, its like comparing a GM turbo Cruze to a beemer (rofl) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljr Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I own both a 2015 R1200R and an FZ 07. I had a 2013 R1200R but was looking for something lighter, more basic, more fun; I bought the FZ 07, actually had a deposit on an R3 but gave up after too many delays. The FZ pretty much met my expectations, light, easy to handle, good mileage, fun. I pretty much quit riding the BMW because the FZ was more fun. Once I got break-in miles on it and started pushing the envelope a bit things started to unravel. A few instances on some of my favorite roads pretty much destroyed my confidence in it. I put a few more miles on the BMW and while at the dealership for service agreed to a demo ride on a new R1200R. What an amazing transformation between the old and new bikes. I knew within 1 mile that I wanted one and after suffering quite a loss (as always) on my trade I took possession of the new R. I purchased the model with the Standard Package which includes heated grips, gps prep, headlight pro, chrome exhaust, saddlebag mounts and cruise control. This adds $1300 to the base price bringing the total to a staggering 15K. Even if you get the basic bike it includes traction control (ho hum) and ABS. Can I compare it to the FZ......I guess. The FZ got parked for 3 months after I got the BMW, it is a positively marvelous machine and a way better R than the previous R. I could honestly consider this bike as a keeper, I can configure it to do anything, it handles, goes and brakes so great, it is the best balanced bike I've ever owned. I'm sure I can make improvements to the FZ, fork, shock and some kind of luggage. It would be pretty much impossible to match the power and I think the brakes, handling definitely goes to the BMW IMHO. I started riding the FZ a bit again, I had planned to sell it but am now thinking I might try to keep it since resale looks so dismal for used units. I've lost enough on bikes this year. In the end I would recommend the R1200R to anyone who wants to invest the money, its going to be a long term investment because you will probably enjoy it that much. I would recommend the FZ to a much narrower audience, something you will probably be looking to move on from in a short period of time. In the end....your money, your choice. You know what they say about opinions! Ride both and see what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomascrown Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I don't think resale is dismal on the FZ. In terms of cost of ownership, over a 5 year span with the R1200R, you're looking at depreciation that rivals the cost of a new FZ07. Whereas, no one will ever sell a used FZ07 in 5 years for 1 dollar. You have to pay to play with Bimmers, whether playing is worth it or not is up to the individual. The FZ is a rewarding bike, but it requires an aggressive style to truly be appreciated. There is a common thread tying these bikes together: [video src=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IsLO7vfh7Q] C.Dolan's insane collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ornery Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 Thanks for the links! While I despise Consumer Reports, I do appreciate the comments section which concurs with their poll. Various opinions, no matter how dubious, have a cumulative effect when they're the same. I would have thought a BMW would be the holy grail. So much for that! The FZ-07 ticks all the boxes I want in a bike. So, I'm back at square one. Maybe what I'm looking for hasn't been built yet. Maybe it was built in the past, and reintroduced! [video src=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYV1W_QIKw8] Edit: Thanks very much for the info, pauljr. I do appreciate it and will keep it in mind when shopping. I'm not going to close my mind to any suggestions. It won't hurt to test ride a wide range of bikes, though I doubt I'll ever go with a feet forward bike of any kind. “The real cycle you're working on is a cycle called yourself.” — Robert M. Pirsig (Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymorr Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I can pretty much confirm most of what PaulJr says about the BMW. I rode a new R1200R and loved it. In May I bought the R1200RS for the wind protection and it is an amazing bike. I had ridden the FZ-07 last summer and the fun factor stuck with me. I found a deal on a used one that I just couldn't pass up. Well, I could have, but I'm not that strong and I don't have a wife to tell me I can't! I am really liking the little FZ and have some mods to do to it. It's a lot cheaper to tinker with than the BMW! Bottom line.... the FZ and the R1200R are both fantastic bikes. They could probably both be considered roadsters but they are also quite different. Choosing one over the other is definitely a personal decision that only you can make. Most BMW dealers have R's available to test ride. Go give one a try. They really have leaped forward with the new wet head. 2015 Yamaha FZ-07 2016 BMW R1200RS 2014 Honda CTX700 2014 Honda Grom Black 2014 Honda Grom Red 2013 Husqvarna TR650 Terra 2011 Husaberg FE390 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 "Variety is the spice of life" Most of the fun in this sport is experiencing different bikes. Beemers are nice but expensive. Talked to a fellow recently with a bmw sport bike. He spent $1800 on a full service. Yikes. He can't even reset the oil change notification without a trip to the dealer. @ Ornery: ^ ^ ^ (what he said) BMW's, amongst other bikes are kinda like a Mercedes. Not everyone can afford to buy them, let alone maintain them. I think maybe, being new at biking and reading so much about different bikes you're not giving yours a fair chance. I suggest you ride it awhile longer, try not to think about other bikes so much and enjoy your FZ-07. Sometimes we get focused too much on one thing and let one bad apple ruin the whole bunch and just about every bike out there you're going to find a quirk with. Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 To own a BMW one must appropriate the proper degree of smug. I believe they give you a potion to drink at time of sale. ;-) I liked the 800 vertical twins but as in cars, *everything* for the BMW is more expensive. For the FZ, exhausts are a dime a dozen. For the BMW, just a few providers and they tend to want a pretty penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ornery Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 I will have this thing into spring next year. Took it out last night at 10:30PM (I usually get up at 4:00AM) for a 15 mile ride, with the excuse of running an errand. With nobody else on the road, it was very pleasant. What I enjoy about it, far outweighs what I don't. I particularly liked the selling price, which is very good bang for the buck. Of course you have to expect trade offs for that. This will sound flaky, but I just don't love this bike. I love all my cars, my bicycles, and I own some hand and power tools I really love, but not this bike. Gawd, that is flaky, I better shut up. Suffice it to say, I'm still looking, and it will be many months before I do any test rides. Thanks a million for all the input. It takes a lot of typing to try and describe a feeling, and I appreciate the effort. “The real cycle you're working on is a cycle called yourself.” — Robert M. Pirsig (Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member yamahappy74 Posted August 24, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted August 24, 2015 Whatever you do don't ride a triple. It will ruin all other configurations. GrinWith the exception of the exhaust config, I really miss my '08 Striple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 To own a BMW one must appropriate the proper degree of smug. I believe they give you a potion to drink at time of sale. ;-) I liked the 800 vertical twins but as in cars, *everything* for the BMW is more expensive. For the FZ, exhausts are a dime a dozen. For the BMW, just a few providers and they tend to want a pretty penny. I dunno about potions, but it'll take a lot of free cash and a resignation to letting the dealer have your savings for "basic" service as they really don't want owners servicing their own bikes anymore. You also have to be willing (and monetarily able) to trade in on new when the warranty is up as that's all BMW expects out of its loyals these days. I've owned 3 of 'em and have no desire to own a 4th. And BTW, compared to the price of entry back in the mid-90s, BMWs now are a bargain. I didn't buy it new, but straight retail on the black/silver 1996 K1100RSA I owned (BTW, the most unreliable and uncomfortable motorcycle I've ever owned in 45 years of riding) was $16.5k That would make the new water cooled R-RS look to be a bargain in today's dollars. And those 800 twins, well, they were Rotax made motors. The singles are also Rotax, but made where labor is dirt cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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