xdr Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Not sure if I'm using proper terminology here.. Adjusted my chain so there was 4 marks on each side and the chain slack is at 2.1". When I go to tighten down the axle nut, the right side mount shifts (tried to hold it by hand) and is off centered. It looks like it may be hitting the swing arm and may not be flush. The left side is centered in the swing arm. You can see it is at the top right of the mount. Also, torque wise, I torqued the axle nut to 76 ft-lb, then the adjusters I snugged them up and tightened the lock nuts to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member databyter Posted July 27, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted July 27, 2015 I have no answer, but want to follow this. My chain was adjusted by the dealer and the side marks are off (maybe they had the same problem and no forum to answer it). Also the other way, measuring from the swingarm pivot to the axle bolt seems to indicate my rear wheel is not aligned properly. But some people have said they have aligned with string and the whole nine yards and the marks were off when it was aligned, so I am not sure we should trust the marks, except perhaps as a start from scratch assembly starting ballpark point. I've heard it is close enough to just use the marks, but we want it right, not close enough, right? It almost sounds like your axle is trying to center and align itself, despite the marks, which depending on castings and welds might be slightly off.. I was thinking about doing the string alignment method, (look for many examples on Youtube) but then I was thinking, why not just use a long straight-edge and spare yourself the agony of tying strings to stools and whatnot. The only downside would be a needed partner as one would have to hold the straightedge, and the other measure the gap to the front tire side. Sorry to be longwinded, but I am new to motorcycles, and this whole rear wheel alignment thing has got me frustrated and I have been too busy working to spend the time to actually do my own chain adjustment and check it. But if the dealer is to be believed, that they did it right, then my marks do not line up either, even though I suppose my rear wheel is supposed to be aligned, if they did it right. Good luck, probably get some good answers tommorow. Databyter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted July 27, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted July 27, 2015 I always use the hash marks for eyeballing but i use a tool made by Motion Pro that uses a clamp that goes on the rear sprocket and a metal rod that points toward the front sprocket...it will show me how true the chain is...it's never failed me once because it showed the rear sprocket moved when I went to tighting the axle bolt so I compensated for the movement and now when I fighting the axle bolt the chain "trues" up... 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member databyter Posted July 27, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted July 27, 2015 I always use the hash marks for eyeballing but i use a tool made by Motion Pro that uses a clamp that goes on the rear sprocket and a metal rod that points toward the front sprocket...it will show me how true the chain is...it's never failed me once because it showed the rear sprocket moved when I went to tighting the axle bolt so I compensated for the movement and now when I fighting the axle bolt the chain "trues" up...Ahh, so if you move a mill forward when tightening, just adjust for a mill backwards, when you tighten you will find your final adjustment. I like it, and I am SURE the dealer would not do that, they lubed my TIRE, marred my bolts, and overtightened my chain. I had to insist they do the throttle body check since they are SUPPOSED to for this model according to Yamaha, and now I am torn between hoping they actually did and didn't just fake it, and hoping they didn't since everything else they did seemed to have been done by somebody who knew nothing about bikes or didn't care. Databyter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted July 27, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted July 27, 2015 http://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0048-Chain-Alignment/dp/B000GTVOJQ... This tool is a life saver...I use a different method to reference my chain slack by putting 3 fingers between the swing arm and chain where the rubber chain guide is closet to the rear sprocket...finding a good dealership or shop is like playing Russian roulette...I have one shop for my fluids/ parts, one shop for suspension and one place for major repairs or machine work... 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 The axle block rotating is some what "normal" due to the design and tolerances of the parts. Before tightening the axle nut, set the axle blocks square/parallel/centered within the swingarm-ends and line up the hash-marks and then tighten the axle nut. Usually it'll rotate a little and make things "look" slightly off. Its not the best design in my book... seems like they emphasized looks over function to a degree. A good tip before tightening the axle nut, stick a screwdriver or small wrench between the chain and rear sprocket. Rotate the wheel to trap either between the chain and sprocket. This forces the wheel forward, tight against the axle adjusters and removes some slop in the setup. Tighten axle nut, rotate wheel the opposite way to release aforementioned "tool". The swingarm hash marks can be off and the design of the axle block makes it difficult to get a great alignment (parallax when looking at those little fingers in the corners of the block). Using a chain alignment tool (such as the Motion Pro) is one good way to double check alignment. I did the "string-method" to align the front/rear wheel and found my hash marks are off by ~ 1/2 a mark (side-side). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I have no answer, but want to follow this. My chain was adjusted by the dealer and the side marks are off (maybe they had the same problem and no forum to answer it). Also the other way, measuring from the swingarm pivot to the axle bolt seems to indicate my rear wheel is not aligned properly. But some people have said they have aligned with string and the whole nine yards and the marks were off when it was aligned, so I am not sure we should trust the marks, except perhaps as a start from scratch assembly starting ballpark point. I've heard it is close enough to just use the marks, but we want it right, not close enough, right? It almost sounds like your axle is trying to center and align itself, despite the marks, which depending on castings and welds might be slightly off.. I was thinking about doing the string alignment method, (look for many examples on Youtube) but then I was thinking, why not just use a long straight-edge and spare yourself the agony of tying strings to stools and whatnot. The only downside would be a needed partner as one would have to hold the straightedge, and the other measure the gap to the front tire side. Sorry to be longwinded, but I am new to motorcycles, and this whole rear wheel alignment thing has got me frustrated and I have been too busy working to spend the time to actually do my own chain adjustment and check it. But if the dealer is to be believed, that they did it right, then my marks do not line up either, even though I suppose my rear wheel is supposed to be aligned, if they did it right. Good luck, probably get some good answers tommorow. Using the string-method on my bike, hash-marks aligned = rear wheel ~ 7.5 mm "off" from front. I didn't notice any odd-handling qualities. Now the hash-marks are off by ~1/2 a mark (after adjustment) and the rear wheel is within 1 mm of the front. Strings are a "pain", but finding two long straight-edges is as well or $$. I've seen guys using 2x4s or some kind of lumber, but having done a lot of remodeling as well.... I wouldn't trust lumber as it can be twisted, warped, bowed easily 1/4" (which would be totally fine for framing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMoore Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I just use a soft tape measure and make the distance from the front edge of the swingarm cap to the center of the axle the same on both sides down to the mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I just use a soft tape measure and make the distance from the front edge of the swingarm cap to the center of the axle the same on both sides down to the mm. That's assuming the swingarm is symmetrical or the ends are the same length... not saying they aren't (haven't measured). What can you measure down to, a 1/16"? Its gotta be hard to get the tape line up with the middle of the axle (especially on the brake side, due to recess). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMoore Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 The swingarm pivots from the same place on each side of the bike, and I use the metric side of the tape, so down to the milimeter. My only adjustment thus far it was 557mm from the lead edge of the swingarm mount to the center of the axle. The lead edge of the swingarm was easier for me to be consistent with than the center. Since the axle rod is hollow, you can also put a small rod through it like a rifle cleaning rod to help find the center on the brake side due to the recess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdr Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Well I went and messed with it some more. Its as good as it can get with the alignment marks. Once you torque the nut above ~40 ft-lb it rotates the right block. Tried knocking it with a rubber mallet with no luck. On another note... measuring chain slack, is it from the top of the link or the valley of the link? I'm at 2.1 at the top of the link, which is a lot better than the 2.4 from the factory/dealer. Also measured with slight pressure (one finger) to take up slack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Spec is from the middle of the chain, so subtract ~7 mm from spec if measuring to top of chain (which is ~14 mm in height). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdr Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Spec is from the middle of the chain, so subtract ~7 mm from spec if measuring to top of chain (which is ~14 mm in height). Ok.. so on this photo it would be the red line? I measured from the black line. If that is so that means it was off even more than I had thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Spec is from the middle of the chain, so subtract ~7 mm from spec if measuring to top of chain (which is ~14 mm in height).Ok.. so on this photo it would be the red line? I measured from the black line. If that is so that means it was off even more than I had thought. Yes, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member databyter Posted July 28, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted July 28, 2015 I just use a soft tape measure and make the distance from the front edge of the swingarm cap to the center of the axle the same on both sides down to the mm. That's assuming the swingarm is symmetrical or the ends are the same length... not saying they aren't (haven't measured). What can you measure down to, a 1/16"? Its gotta be hard to get the tape line up with the middle of the axle (especially on the brake side, due to recess). This is true, I found it very hard and a very subjective measurement doing it this way, because due to the FZ-07 design there is really no way to locate the center of the axle and pivot point without a lot of work and a little guessing. However if my measurements are to be believed my rear tire is turned to the left significantly, although to the eye my chain doesn't seem to be off by much. I may invest in that Motion Pro tool to double check, I don't want to wear out my chain/sprocket. More importantly tho I want my damn tires aligned properly before I start taking road trips up in the twisties because I do like a challenge and to push it just a bit and I don't need any dangerous handicaps while I am learning skills. Databyter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 That's assuming the swingarm is symmetrical or the ends are the same length... not saying they aren't (haven't measured). What can you measure down to, a 1/16"? Its gotta be hard to get the tape line up with the middle of the axle (especially on the brake side, due to recess). This is true, I found it very hard and a very subjective measurement doing it this way, because due to the FZ-07 design there is really no way to locate the center of the axle and pivot point without a lot of work and a little guessing.Agree… I really mulled over this and spent way too much time on it When measuring between the swingarm pivot and axle you must keep the "tool" (i.e., tape measure, piece of wire, etc…) perpendicular to the pivots (i.e., swingarm and axle) and centered as well. Honestly I think it introduces way too many sources for error due to the geometry of the frame and swingarm. I'd rather just eyeball the hash marks and call it good-enough. I tried a chain alignment tool as well and that got it close. However the rod included with MP tool is a little short. It'll show if the rear wheel/sprocket is out of alignment, but i'd have to be off by a good bit. I found the string-method to be the most "precise"… barring having 6-7' long straight-edges. If you take your time setting the strings and double-check it should be repeatable to within a millimeter or so. Its inherently accurate due to the lengths of the strings and how a small change at the rear wheel will make a large change up front (easily measured with steel rule or caliper). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member databyter Posted July 28, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted July 28, 2015 This is true, I found it very hard and a very subjective measurement doing it this way, because due to the FZ-07 design there is really no way to locate the center of the axle and pivot point without a lot of work and a little guessing.Agree… I really mulled over this and spent way too much time on it When measuring between the swingarm pivot and axle you must keep the "tool" (i.e., tape measure, piece of wire, etc…) perpendicular to the pivots (i.e., swingarm and axle) and centered as well. Honestly I think it introduces way too many sources for error due to the geometry of the frame and swingarm. I'd rather just eyeball the hash marks and call it good-enough. I tried a chain alignment tool as well and that got it close. However the rod included with MP tool is a little short. It'll show if the rear wheel/sprocket is out of alignment, but i'd have to be off by a good bit. I found the string-method to be the most "precise"… barring having 6-7' long straight-edges. If you take your time setting the strings and double-check it should be repeatable to within a millimeter or so. Its inherently accurate due to the lengths of the strings and how a small change at the rear wheel will make a large change up front (easily measured with steel rule or caliper). Yea, the chain/sprocket tools also suffer from the chain guide influencing the direction it is going. It is not really floating as it would need to be for this to be trulely accurate. At least this is what I have read. It seems to only be a guide to confirm that you are not grossly screwwed up. As you mentioned the string is way more precise because of the geometry involved. I am still thinking a straight edge with a jig I could make would be doable as well. The jig would simply hold the straightedge in place. And contrary to what you or someone else implied, It never occured to me to use 2 straight edges although perhaps if money was growing on trees it would be quicker and easier. I was simply going to measure one side, move the setup and measure the other, re-adjust and repeat....WHich is one of the reasons the string and a few jackstands is soundling better AND cheaper all the time. Databyter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted July 28, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted July 28, 2015 No need for strings or tape measures... A simple 10$ tool from Motion Pro called " CHAIN ALIGNMENT TOOL" Will tell you if your chain and sprockets are aligned... I adjust my bike chain or dirt bike chain on the kick stand... 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrim Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I watched a video from Sportbike Track Gear on youtube about how to adjust the chain tension and before he tightened the axle nut he gave the tire a good smack (towards the front of the bike), saying it helps to keep it in place. When watching the Motion Pro official how-to on their chain/sprocket alignment tool he says take a plastic handled screwdriver and put it between the chain and sprocket on the bottom and rotate the rear wheel forward, it will create tension on the chain and cause the wheel to press forward and square it up. Basically the wheel, no matter which technique you use, needs to be pushed forward in the swingarm to help make sure it is squared up and won't walk when you tight the axle nut. Can't find the STG video but here is the MP one: [video src=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7f9y0MFIPY] And I just ordered that MP tool on eBay for $13.45 shipped - thanks for the heads up fellas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMoore Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I like the screwdriver tip. My right side block loves to loosen up while I am tightening the axle nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 No need for strings or tape measures... A simple 10$ tool from Motion Pro called " CHAIN ALIGNMENT TOOL" Will tell you if your chain and sprockets are aligned... I adjust my bike chain or dirt bike chain on the kick stand... I watched a video from Sportbike Track Gear on youtube about how to adjust the chain tension and before he tightened the axle nut he gave the tire a good smack (towards the front of the bike), saying it helps to keep it in place. When watching the Motion Pro official how-to on their chain/sprocket alignment tool he says take a plastic handled screwdriver and put it between the chain and sprocket on the bottom and rotate the rear wheel forward, it will create tension on the chain and cause the wheel to press forward and square it up. Basically the wheel, no matter which technique you use, needs to be pushed forward in the swingarm to help make sure it is squared up and won't walk when you tight the axle nut. Can't find the STG video but here is the MP one: And I just ordered that MP tool on eBay for $13.45 shipped - thanks for the heads up fellas. Yeah the MP tool works... however my experience with it shows that the rear wheel would have to be off a good bit before it'll show. Its a combination of the short indicator rod and the upper swingarm chain slider, which the chain rests on and skews the chain to the side (at least on my bike). With the hash marks lined-up, the MP tool showed the wheel/sprocket were in alignment (within the variability of sighting the tool). I rotated the wheel and checked in a few spots. Maybe that was good-enough... but then checking with strings the rear wheel was off ~7 mm. I found that ~ 1T of the adjuster nut (chain tension) moved the rear wheel (in relation to the front) 4-5 mm. After I adjusted the rear wheel, I put paint marks on the swingarm/adjuster/chain tension cap and nut. This way in the future I only have to rotate the chain tension nuts equally and it'll maintain my alignment. I'll only double check the alignment when its time for a new tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I like the screwdriver tip. My right side block loves to loosen up while I am tightening the axle nut.That's what I've always done... big screwdriver or small combination wrench (10 mm or so). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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