ABS or no?

[pattonme]

>When ABS fails, do the brakes fail? Well, no... it just reverts back to regular old hydraulic brakes.
 
except if the solenoid gets stuck in the open (ie. bypass) position. Is that un-possible, because there's a honking spring pushing on that solenoid such that it will always fail closed? I don't know.
 
> ABS only modulates the hydraulic pressure when traction is lost. The same thing a skilled pilot will attempt by pumping the brakes.
 
And yet there are a goodly handful of experienced dirt riders who absolutely turn off ABS in loose surfaces because it dramatically extended braking distance and almost pitched them over the edge of the mountain instead of letting them lock the wheels and skid stop.
 
RRW and Motorcycle Consumer News (US, not UK MCN publication) did a ABS vs racer braking test and while it was admittedly a few years ago (whenever it was the CBR1000RR came with ABS) on dry, clean pavement, an expert rider with practice could out-brake the ABS. But here too on less than perfect surfaces or less than expert rider, the ABS is a good idea.
 
However, ABS wont' save you when you're front tire is skidding sideways or trying to brake in sandy/gravel/coal dust like in the middle of the roads around here or if you try to panic stop while leaned over to any great degree. Can it make the difference between hitting the stopped object and missing it? It very well might. But if your braking skills are sharp the same could be true as well.
 
ABS performance is dependent on how good the programming is, how good a CPU it has, how many inputs it has, and of course if the damn wheel sensor is even working or the cable isn't broken or corroded. There is so much more to go wrong that ABS is IMO hard to justify considering the rather significant cost even though as a "safety net of final recourse", it does have value.
 
wet traction is about 80% of dry (assuming it didn't just start raining and you don't live in a place where it hardly ever rains and it'll take a goodly while for the dirt, grime, oil to wash away).

[hobbs]

I would imagine ABS on a bike would not handle off road or snowy conditions well. Most vehicular systems don't seem to cope well either. I skidded about 2 car lengths in what should have been 5 feet. In slush this winter when the ABS kicked in and just wouldn't let the car stop.
 
However, in the end - when everything is working ABS complements rider skill, the two don't clash.
 
... except maybe off road and such.

[so1102]

... Is that un-possible, because there's a honking spring pushing on that solenoid such that it will always fail closed? I don't know.

 
One of my favorite all time quotes: "Me fail English? That's unpossible!" ~ Ralph Wiggum

[cndnmax]

The argument of learning how to brake instead of getting abs is like saying I don't need airbags in my car because I know how to drive. shet happens and anything that can help make you safer is great in my book. The new traction/stability control module by Bosh take abs to a whole new level: launch control, wheelie/stoppie control, rear brake bias in turns.
 
http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/02/26/bosch-motorcycle-stability-control-all-in-one-motorcycle-safety-system-explained/

[pattonme]

Well sure! Your FZ07 now has a MSRP of 10+ grand.

[cndnmax]

Not really. On most bikes I've seen ABS is generally $500 extra. $1k at the most for the advance system I would guess.

[norcal616]

Might as well slap a rekluse clutch on the fz-07... (rofl)

[thomascrown]

I think a softer compound front tire would shorten braking distances more than abs would, at least on a motorcycle.
But if your goal is to never wash out the front end, abs can't be a bad thing.

[massman]

Well sure! Your FZ07 now has a MSRP of 10+ grand.

That argument that ABS makes a bike more expensive is somewhat false. ABS usually means your insurance becomes cheaper. My insurance got so much cheaper that in 3 years, ABS will be pure profit. Your bike resell value is generally higher. If you add less crashes thus less repair costs, plus less work time lost, and less hospital bills... Then the extra initial cost of ABS becomes negligible.

[pattonme]

To clarify, a fancy ABS system as referenced in the article is probably several grand. A basic ABS system that one would expect to be installed by order of law would be ~500 I expect. In the USA, I don't expect ABS will make any credible dent in insurance rates. And especially not on a UJM like the FZ07.

[Beemer]

ABS is good to have but if your wheel speed sensor/sensors goes out, good luck not knowing how to brake well without ABS before you get it to the shop. I'd say it's best to learn good braking first with standard discs, just as back-up in case one link in the ABS technology fails.

[cndnmax]

ABS is good to have but if your wheel speed sensor/sensors goes out, good luck not knowing how to brake well without ABS before you get it to the shop. I'd say it's best to learn good braking first with standard discs, just as back-up in case one link in the ABS technology fails.

 
I don't think anyone here thinks abs is a replacement for good braking habits.
Why pay more money for good tires when you can just drive slower? There's really no point to this issue - if you want to pay for the added safety of abs then pay for it (I would) if not then don't. So simple.

[massman]

It IS actually that simple.
 
ABS increases safety.
Whether you want ABS or not, that's your choice.

[thomascrown]

The bikes that have R&D put into the fancy systems don't give you a choice. You simply get the abs due to the costs associated with it, so that it's amortized through ALL the bikes sold. The crap systems are a 500 or 1000 dollar option.

[phicurious86]

It IS actually that simple. 
ABS increases safety.
Whether you want ABS or not, that's your choice.

At least for now. Motorcycles have avoided much of the federal regulations aimed at automobiles in US, but I wouldn't be that surprised to see an ABS mandate for street motorcycles in the next 10 years. Although, I really haven't seen the ABS cause get much political traction at all.
 

[so1102]

I personally would rather have TC and a quickshifter with auto-blip than ABS, if I were to outfit my bike with "electronic doodads"

[speedingtickets]

ABS nearly cuts your emergency braking in half, it handles like a miracle on wet roads too. Check out the Youtube videos. Honda's C-ABS delivers front and rear equally even if you just slam on the front. I am upgrading to a new CBR1000RR with C-ABS next year just for that, well that and 0-60 in 2.5 with an electronic steering damper. As far as arguing against ABS, if it were not for advancements in technology we would all still be on horses. Who cares who learns on what?! People look down their nose at me for gearing up like I am about to be shot from a cannon. All that protection just makes me ride much faster with more confidence. ABS is no different, there is no overkill. Just ride as safe as possible to live to ride another day!

[pattonme]

> ABS nearly cuts your emergency braking in half
 
You mean on dry? That is impossible. Unless the rider absolutely sucks at braking.
 
> it handles like a miracle on wet roads too.
 
I'll give you that in the hands of an in-experienced rider who has not practiced wet-weather braking, their stops with ABS will (can) be considerably shorter than without.
 
 
Compare wet vs dry and it's about a 20% difference. But most motorcyclists act like traction is 50% less.
 

 

 

[pattonme]

It's anything but "simple" system.

 
 
 
 

 

 

[Beemer]

I'm not sure if most bikes with ABS have it front AND rear but if not I have to say this. I said that ABS was good but it's not always better. I learned while dirt riding that at times it is best to lay the bike down (on the street also) and locking up your rear tire is the fastest way to go about that. If you can't lock up the rear tire with ABS when you need to then ABS isn't always better. I also learned other helpful techniques/reasons to lock up your rear end. Knowing how to do controlled slides is nothing but a plus. I believe it all depends on the situation, conditions and rider as to which system is better. Maybe for the most part ABS is best to have for most situations but it's still a choice. Now let's talk about how hydroplaning gives a squirt about any brake system.

[pattonme]

Dirt rules are different wherein a locked rear tire will not launch you over the moon. If you want to crash a bike on asphault (wet or dry) just grab the front brake. Locking up the rear on dry asphalt is but a short step away from experiencing a high-side where the fall will be quite painful and damaging and the bike is likely to land on top of you or at least chase you into whatever obstacle is in your path. *crunch*
 
On street there is almost never a reason to lay it down unless literally you're going to get decapitated by a truck (nee Terminator the movie) or you're coming in so damn fast you don't have a prayer (but brake as long as have room), or there is a cliff you're about to go over. In which case, sure, hop off. But unless you're in mortal danger, you and the bike will stop remarkably faster if you are upright and applying the brakes.
 

[massman]

I fail to see how locking up brakes on purpose and tumbling down the road on your ass, while your motorcycle is in a "controlled crash" besides you, is in any way preferable to staying on the bike.

[pattonme]

I LOVE this picture.
http://mahonkin.com/~milktree/motorcycles/Dogs-demonstrate-ABS.jpg