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norcal616

Frame sliders discussion - theory and practice

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norcal616
I'm against the frame sliders on the fz... I would rather pay 100 for new plastics then to get a bent or pulled bolt on the motor/frame tie location... I'm gonna invest in the case covers from T-Rex racing and some axle sliders...
 
 

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thomascrown
I agree with you 100 percent. Which is why I run the rizoma sliders. Wish i had a pic to show the design, and how it prevents that.

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pattonme
Rizoma: http://www.motovationusa.com/mvstore/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=2353
 
 
PM213A_01.jpg
 
I would have to say though that sure looks like they are replacing one of the engine bolts which was @norcal616's objection. Now if it was an expanding collar arrangement where it was just "press fit" into that opening I don't know how well it would stay put during a crash, but it wouldn't bend anything. I know about bending engine bolts, too. NOT fun! 
 
Maybe the Yam accessory sliders are the best solution?

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so1102
@norcal616 and @pattonme and @thomascrown The Vagabond sliders press-fit into the holes very very snugly with an o-ring, and then are held in place by a set screw. No engine mounting bolts are touched. I went with them for that very reason and am quite happy.

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thomascrown
So the way the Rizomas work:
 
Engine mount bolt is replaced with a bolt that is approximately the same length. New bolt is threaded on the inside of it's head, however. A plastic bolt then bolts into the inside thread of the new engine mount bolt. The plastic bolt is also threaded on the inside of it's head. Frame slider then bolts into the inside thread of the plastic bolt.
 
The point is that if there is a significant lateral load on the frame slider, it breaks off at the plastic "fuse", instead of transferring those big forces to the engine bolt.

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pattonme
@thomascrown, per http://fz07.org/post/44344/thread: that's a lot of intermediary threads on the Rizoma. But I agree that it needs to break away at some level of impact.

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thomascrown
For me, a frame slider's primary purpose is preventing superficial damage at low to no speed falls. If you drop the bike at big speeds, where crazy forces/dynamics are at work, the only task the slider should have is to not pole vault the bike if it comes in contact with a solid object, or destroy the crankcase/head by transferring forces to the wrong places.  
 
The Rizomas meet that criteria.
 
Hell, you can buy a new FZ07 frame for the price of an exhaust.  Fixing a jacked up crankcase, or head is the far more expensive proposition.    
 
 

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norcal616
It cost less than 400 bucks to replace 95% of the plastics... The only parts that need protecting are the case sides, axles and the water pump housing...I like the case savers that T-Rex racing makes and I wish other companies besides Yoshi would made a water pump tube protector...

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djdiddles
this is why I have a Moto Cage "cage" being shipped to me as we speak from Europe. Not too keen on having a frame slider on my bike.

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thomascrown
It cost less than 400 bucks to replace 95% of the plastics... The only parts that need protecting are the case sides, axles and the water pump housing...I like the case savers that T-Rex racing makes and I wish other companies besides Yoshi would made a water pump tube protector...
Those Trex case savers are like the typical frame slider.  They use a long, exposed bolts where a lot of leverage will be placed on them in a crash, and potentially destroy the threads in the engine casing.  

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pattonme
@norcal616 that's some mighty expensive plastic!! The mold is also excessively "busy" IMO what with all those textures. But I give them props for mimicking the engine parts underneath. I think I would like them more if the plastic seated directly against (or ~1mm away from) the engine parts. And like them a lot at $40. Yes I know it takes time to make a mold but are they trying to recoup costs by selling just 10 lots?

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norcal616
I agree it expensive...I'm just looking at all my options as to what's out there and see what others ideas or experiences are...I have not brought them yet...I'm still debating...

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noltz
Go for the vagabonds, only ones i have seen that do not bolt on to motor stuff, simple o ring pressure made for perfect fit and one small screw screen (where to drain hole is underneath the frame) to secure it and you are done.
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thomascrown
Those Yoshimuras are perfect. Shame about the price though.

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ryan4130
OES frame sliders use the same bolt as the engine.... If they take a fall the delerin plastic is sacrificial and would break far before any metal components would bend
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databyter
The Puig Pro frame sliders that I bought but haven't installed yet would seem to have solved all these problems. At least at first glance, I'm not an engineer.
 
First, the main bolt is sleeved in the frame hole so that it would only be able to bend a very small amount before the frame tube itself absorbed the lateral force.
 
On top of that, before that lateral force even reached the main bolt, it is mitigated by virtue of the fact that the slider itself is not mounted at the point of the frame bolt, but is forward via a heavy articulated plate. It appears that the slider itself will SLIDE mitigating some force, but when really put to task will simply articulate on the plate which looks like it would want to rotate mitigating more force, and limited by some tabs that are on the plate and up against the outside of the frame tube.
I'm describing this from memory, and my impressions so it might not be a good description, but bottom line, it appears that these much more expensive frame sliders were designed to address the very concerns voiced in this thread.

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