PCV - Auto Tune vs Custom Map/ Dyno? O2 Optimizer?

[captainbeard714]

I've been doing some reading around here and other websites trying to educate myself more on the Power Commander 5. Ive got it installed right now with the akrapovic tune, running the full titanium akrapovic with no baffle. I know this thing needs some further tuning to really hit full potential. Also, Ill be installing the DNA filter and intake when I get home from work in two weeks. Im planning on taking it to a shop that is power commander certified. There right by my house and I already talked to them. They were going to take the bike for a day and dyno it and install a custom map. The guy seems to be really smart and been around forever and knew the power commander well. However, when I installed my PCV I also installed the 02 optimizer and he seemed to have never really heard of that??
Anyways just looking for more opinions/ personal experience with these bikes and Power Commander 5s. Ive already read through the forums but my main questions are...
What exactly is that O2 optimizer doing for me?  Is the auto tune worth getting?  Replace the O2 optimizer? Seems like it might actually be cheaper too?Is a dyno tune and custom map better than the auto tune?  Will I have to keep remapping in the future as the bike gets more and more miles on it?If I get the auto tune system, is it just plug and play, no loading maps or needing to be dyno tuned by a shop?
I know this bike could be running a lot better with the new exhaust.  Want to get the absolute best tune I can on it for power and to get rid of all the decal popping.  I know a lot is going to change too once I add the DNA filter and intake along with the open baffle akrapovic.
 
Here is a quick exhaust clip right after I installed it, for kicks and gigs.
 
 

[marthy]

A good tune is a good way to go. The 02 optimizer fix the close loop. The oem O2 sensor keep the AFR @ 14.7:1 pretty solid. The optimizer aim for 13.6 to 14.0, not sure where Dynojet tuned it for the FZ07.

[Cruizin]

ALot of us here are partial to the EJK Fuel controller and/or Having ECU flashed by @2wheeldynoworks
 
I'm sure that someone from the powercommander camp will chime in with some advice though.
 
ECU flash is best bang for buck and can eliminate popping on decel. Not sure about the FZ-07, but on other bikes the decel popping is the emissions system pumping air into the chamber during decel.
 
 

[captainbeard714]

Thanks guys. That's my understanding too on these newer bikes and how they pump air into the chamber during decel to try and burn cleaner for emissions to my understanding. Power commander seems to think the 02 optimizer is required for the FZ-07 so Ill probably just leave it. For now Im just planning on installing the new DNA filter and then taking it to the shop for the custom map. Hopefully that really brings it all to life and gets rid of the decel popping. We will see. Maybe I should have went with a different fuel controller, but I already got the power commander and do like the setup and software so far. We'll see if it really shines in the end with a custom map.

[thomascrown]

You're not going to get much more power out of it. If you open up the power commander software and look at the timing and fuel tables, you'll see that the majority of the power comes from the timing that they add at or near wide open throttle. Since timing is octane limited, there's no way that your dyno tuner will magically find more timing, unless he tunes it near the ragged edge.
 
You might be able to slightly optimize the fuel trims, but Dynojet themselves dyno tuned an akra titanium no baffle w/stage 2 dna filter. That map should be right on the money. Seems like you're throwing money at the problem, but don't quite understand the variables at play.
 
A tune would probably be the ideal setup, however, you will never recoup your investment on a tune. The power commander and ejk are physical objects that you can strip off and sell when it's time to move on, and you also don't burn money on express shipping, or downtime.
 
It's really a question of compromises. The Dynojet allows timing control, fuel control, autotuner adaptability, quickshifter expansion, all in a box that you can turn around and sell for 70 percent of the purchase price once you're done with it. It's a compelling package for some people.
 
 
 

[captainbeard714]

@thomascrown  Thanks for the info man.  I think I have a pretty good understanding of everything here, not expecting any miracle power gains.  Im pretty smart with anything mechanical on boats and trucks, etc.  Just newer to street bikes and all the electronic systems involved.  Just looking for personal experience with the PCV.  I like the unit so far really.  Seems like a quality product.  Money really isn't an issue for me lol.  Im just a 23 year old tugboat mate that's gone half the year haha.  Got to have a certain amount of funds towards my toys .  Maybe once I install the new DNA filter and stage 2 intake deal, Ill install the Power Commander map for that with the open baffle akrapovic.  Maybe this will be spot on like you said and run really well.  We'll see and I'll report back.  Im still probably going to end up taking it to the shop for a custom map and dyno just to see what the results are.  I mainly just wanted this exhaust for the sound and looks and to be heard by other drivers.  I wasn't expecting any huge power gains.  So really I just want to install the new filter and then get the thing tuned so its running smooth.  That's my only goal with installing the power commander, proper fueling and a smooth running bike.  Maybe that power commander map will do the trick after the filter is installed.  Im running the stock akrapovic map right now and I think its a bit off since I have the baffle removed.  I did play with the fuel a little for the deceleration and it got rid of all the pop, but I know its still off.  Sucks my bike is thousands of miles away right now at home though lol, Im on a tugboat in the middle of nowhere Alaska for two more weeks. I just want to ride! Probably overthinking this stuff, but hey, Im bored sometimes.

[pgeldz]

Hey guys,
 
DynoJet used my bike for final certification for the FZ-07 PCV application, and all the Akra Ti tunes on their website came from my bike running 91 octane without baffle.
 
The final combination I went with was with the Akra Ti without baffle, 91 octane, DNA filter and DNA airbox cover, and the map for that is on their site, as well as some other combos. Just keep in mind all their maps for the Akra Ti are without baffle. I remember them saying that they made the best use of their tuning with the fuel map, not by messing with the timing maps too much (I think it's because they know I used 91 octane, and other customers may be using 87 or 89 so they wanted to make a map that was good across all octane ratings).
 
The bike runs perfectly, but then again, it did bone stock also. It's just more powerful everywhere. DynoJet did mostly tune for wide open throttle though, so I later had it tuned again by another tuner here in town to tune it across the rev range. He said the DynoJet map was spot on, and even though he tuned it in increments every 250rpm, and made like 2 hp and 2 tq more on the dyno, it felt exactly the same when riding it, which is to say again, perfect.
 
I can tell you this though...there is a gentleman here in town who had the Akra Carbon with baffle in, and the PCV. Not sure what tune he downloaded but he was so unhappy with it he wanted to sell the bike because of it. He contacted me and asked for help and I sent him to the shop who's been helping me out and did the second tune.
 
My tuner told me he loaded up my map on his bike, made some minor adjutments (probably for the carbon Akra with baffle and stock air filter set up), and the bike ran perfectly. The customer told my tuner after he rode it with the new tune he said it ran perfect, and could not not make it misbehave like it did previously. He is in love with the bike again and is definitely not selling it.
 
So, the moral of the story is...load up the closest map they have available, and instead of spending money on the autotune, spend it on a proper tune for your setup and conditions. I think you will be very pleased.
 

 
- Paulie
 
 

[captainbeard714]

 

Hey guys,  
DynoJet used my bike for final certification for the FZ-07 PCV application, and all the Akra Ti tunes on their website came from my bike running 91 octane without baffle.
 
The final combination I went with was with the Akra Ti without baffle, 91 octane, DNA filter and DNA airbox cover, and the map for that is on their site, as well as some other combos. Just keep in mind all their maps for the Akra Ti are without baffle. I remember them saying that they made the best use of their tuning with the fuel map, not by messing with the timing maps too much (I think it's because they know I used 91 octane, and other customers may be using 87 or 89 so they wanted to make a map that was good across all octane ratings).
 
The bike runs perfectly, but then again, it did bone stock also. It's just more powerful everywhere. DynoJet did mostly tune for wide open throttle though, so I later had it tuned again by another tuner here in town to tune it across the rev range. He said the DynoJet map was spot on, and even though he tuned it in increments every 250rpm, and made like 2 hp and 2 tq more on the dyno, it felt exactly the same when riding it, which is to say again, perfect.
 
I can tell you this though...there is a gentleman here in town who had the Akra Carbon with baffle in, and the PCV. Not sure what tune he downloaded but he was so unhappy with it he wanted to sell the bike because of it. He contacted me and asked for help and I sent him to the shop who's been helping me out and did the second tune.
 
My tuner told me he loaded up my map on his bike, made some minor adjutments (probably for the carbon Akra with baffle and stock air filter set up), and the bike ran perfectly. The customer told my tuner after he rode it with the new tune he said it ran perfect, and could not not make it misbehave like it did previously. He is in love with the bike again and is definitely not selling it.
 
So, the moral of the story is...load up the closest map they have available, and instead of spending money on the autotune, spend it on a proper tune for your setup and conditions. I think you will be very pleased.
 

 
- Paulie

Hey Paulie! Thanks man. That's some good info right there. You sure all their maps are with the baffle out. Cause Im running 91 with the akra titanium baffle out, and I currently have the stock akrapovic map installed and it seems it is definitely off. Had some decel popping and a slight loss of power it felt like on the butt dyno. Anyways Im home from work in two weeks. All my new parts should be waiting for me at home so once I get them all installed Ill be running the same exact setup. 91 octane, dna air filter, dna stage 2 airbox cover deal, and the full titanium akra with the baffle out. So... maybe ill install that map that youre talking about and it will run like a champ. We'll see. I hope so! Will still probably take it to the shop to see what they can do with it. They specialize in tuning bikes and are a certified dynojet tuning center.
 
 

[wickedtwister]

I spoke to the guys at power commander and they said their tunes are not specific enough to be 100% perfect for everyones bike. The major reason being environmental differences. I used their tune that matched my bike 100%. I felt flat spots throughout the power band. This prompted me to purchase the auto tune module and use it. I have to say the difference is night and day. With the specific tune from power commander I am adding up to 15% fuel in some places over the pcv tune. In my opinion you need to do a dyno tune or use auto tune. Just be careful and make sure they tune throughout the whole power band not just wot. This is why I went with the auto tune. I can also pull off the autotune and use it on my other bikes. 2wheeldynoworks just flashed my ecu today, I wanted to have the power band cleaned up and reduce engine braking. I will have to restart autotuning to dial in my afrs perfectly.

[pgeldz]

I am positive all the DynoJet Akra Ti maps are with baffle out, because I took it out before I gave them my bike
 
And yes, my bike was tuned in Las Vegas at their HQ, in high heat conditions so it's possible they are right on the money as far as environmental differences go. I'd say it's a good starting point though. Let us know how you make out when you're back in town.
 

 
- Paulie

[captainbeard714]

Will do. Thanks guys
 

[gcsrt]

I would go with a K&N over the DNA, it's a faction of the cost. I have a full yosi exhaust with k&n and power commander 5. Easy install and runs very smooth even with the wrong tune. I am sure mine can be improved with a full dyno tune but it was quite well how it is.
 
DR

[captainbeard714]

Ive always been a fan of K&N. But already ordered the DNA and intake lid and filter oil. Seems like a really quality product with a lot of airflow. Wanted to try it out.

[captainbeard714]

Also, still wondering if I should order up a auto tune or not?

[marthy]

Also, still wondering if I should order up a auto tune or not?

From my experience, if you do the AT without tbe LCD-200 its kind of useless...

[gcsrt]

With the autotune you will need to weld a second bung into your exhaust. Some people are not willing to do that to their new exhaust.

[thomascrown]

With the autotune you will need to weld a second bung into your exhaust. Some people are not willing to do that to their new exhaust.

Yeap.  I don't think the OP needs autotune.  Autotune makes sense if you're going to go batshit crazy with the mods.  There is only one exhaust that facilitates autotune use for now.   

 
 
 
 
 

[javelinxd44]

"The final combination I went with was with the Akra Ti without baffle, 91 octane, DNA filter and DNA airbox cover, and the map for that is on their site, as well as some other combos. Just keep in mind all their maps for the Akra Ti are without baffle. I remember them saying that they made the best use of their tuning with the fuel map, not by messing with the timing maps too much (I think it's because they know I used 91 octane, and other customers may be using 87 or 89 so they wanted to make a map that was good across all octane ratings).
 
The bike runs perfectly, but then again, it did bone stock also. It's just more powerful everywhere. DynoJet did mostly tune for wide open throttle though, so I later had it tuned again by another tuner here in town to tune it across the rev range. He said the DynoJet map was spot on, and even though he tuned it in increments every 250rpm, and made like 2 hp and 2 tq more on the dyno, it felt exactly the same when riding it, which is to say again, perfect.
- Paulie"
 
I'm just wondering with the auto tune does it just tune the fuel and air settings or can it change the timing as well? I would want it to be tuned for 94 octane but only chevron has 94 in my area everyone else has 91 so just incase im stuck somewhere and have to refuel.
Thanks
 

 

[pgeldz]

@javelinxd44,
 
Honestly I'm not too sure about that one. I do think you can get a map selector switch though to switch between two custom maps. You could have one made fkr 91 and another for 94. That could be an option for ya.
 

 
- Paulie

[ctrlsave]

Not sure if this helps or not. I'm running akro ti (no baffle) and removed air box snorkel, stock filter, stock lid. I loaded the tune specific to my mods and it ran good but ran better when I ran pgeldz's final tune which was with dna lid and filter even though I don't have those. I run 93 octane and live on the lower east coast so my elevation is lower than Vegas which would be an environmental difference. It runs great on the #8 tune. With baffle out there is a small loss of power at the very bottom end just simply due to a loss in back pressure. Mid range and top end were quite different from stock. I would receive to get the pcv5 and run either the #7 or #8 tune before spending the extra on autotune.