Premium Member howworkclutch Posted May 28, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted May 28, 2015 You guys are making me doubt myself. I'm 200 in gear and ordered .95 springs. We're you guys going for soft/compliant or did I mistakenly order the wrong springs? -HowWorkClutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Pattonme posted a Traxxion Dynamics fork spring chart, assuming the bike weighs 400 lbs + 200 lb rider... the chart indicates 0.95 kg/mm spring. However pattonme indicated going down a spring rate for mostly street riding. I'm currently debating spring rates myself, I still have to go and measure my sags first. Racetech also has a spring calculator, which indicates lower spring rates 0.85 - 0.90 kg/mm... I can't speak to how accurate it is. I know for my enduro bike RT's recommendations for the forks where on the high side, but the shock rate was spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member n2shotokai Posted May 28, 2015 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 28, 2015 You guys are making me doubt myself. I'm 200 in gear and ordered .95 springs. We're you guys going for soft/compliant or did I mistakenly order the wrong springs? http://racetech.com/ChooseVehicle.aspx On their calc at 200 lb they show .902 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 You know guys, there's a thread for this... ;-) http://fz07.org/post/38631/thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtmn Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I love mine, its for street use remember stiffer if tracking the bike at 200 lbs I wouldn't go softer unless you are really hardcore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Good threads never say die! I'm looking to buy the 0.85 Sonic springs but I want to be sure I get everything I need for a proper upgrade. What, bushings and 15 weight fork oil? Is that right? Anything else I need? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Links to parts, etc. would be great, thanks! Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickshift Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Beemer said: I'm looking to buy the 0.85 Sonic springs Stock front springs are 0.875, so you would be going softer. I tried softer fork springs so I could set sag for my weight, wasn’t a smart move as the torque and throttle response led to an even bouncier front end. Damping is a bigger issue than spring rate - fit Cogent Dynamics DDC valves and you’ll notice a big improvement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 11 hours ago, stickshift said: Stock front springs are 0.875, so you would be going softer. I tried softer fork springs so I could set sag for my weight, wasn’t a smart move as the torque and throttle response led to an even bouncier front end. Damping is a bigger issue than spring rate - fit Cogent Dynamics DDC valves and you’ll notice a big improvement. I got to that number by using their formula to calculate the spring rate for my weight and style of riding (average street riding @205 lbs) and that's what it came out to be, according to Sonics calculations. I don't want soft & bouncy and I was kinda wondering anyway if I should go with a little stiffer springs for longevity reasons and the fact I may hit a few curves here and there a little harder than usual. The thing is, I didn't want to spend a lot of money, what kind of money are we talking with those valves and do they fit on our stock fork tubes?? Thanks! Edit: Nevermind, I found them. $187.95 . Thanks for pointing them out. DDC - Drop In Damper Cartridge | Motorcycle Suspension Upgrade | Cogent Dynamics WWW.MOTOCD.COM Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 @stickshift I've been reading reviews and suggestions and I decided to go up a notch on the spring rate to 0.90 to better suit some aggressive riding and for more stiffness. (thanks for you suggestion!) I may do a mix of 10 and 15 weight oil also but I haven't decide on the mix ratio just yet, maybe 50/50 or 70% 10 weight/30 15 weight. Maybe a little above the recommended level as well. Since I personally didn't have much trouble with my stock suspension, although it was lacking, the new/better parts and thicker oil should make a significant difference. Many people have done just this and had good results. I'm going to forego the damper valve cartridge. It's probably real nice but it's just too much extra money for an "On the Cheap" suspension job. I appreciate your input, thanks! Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 On 4/14/2019 at 9:29 PM, stickshift said: Damping is a bigger issue than spring rate This^ All day long. Overspringing a bike will exacerbate poor damping more than it will mask it. Sure, it may mask some diving due to sloppy compression damping, but it'll backfire on rebound when the stronger spring extends back up too quickly through the already weak damping. This is why setting sag is so important and the first thing you adjust. It's also why damper rod forks are full of compromises. Those drop in valves look like a really practical solution. I need to grab some of those to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylerhsm Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I'm from in Australia and I dropped Motodc an email after reading this thread to see if they'd ship to Australia and what the cost would but after 24 hours haven't received a response. These seem like exactly what I need. I commute 80% with 20% for fun, and with our crappy roads you can really feel every bump in the road. I don't need track performance or adjustability, just softer compression damping with harder rebound damping. Something that damper rods can't do by themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 5 hours ago, kylerhsm said: I'm from in Australia and I dropped Motodc an email after reading this thread to see if they'd ship to Australia and what the cost would but after 24 hours haven't received a response. These seem like exactly what I need. I commute 80% with 20% for fun, and with our crappy roads you can really feel every bump in the road. I don't need track performance or adjustability, just softer compression damping with harder rebound damping. Something that damper rods can't do by themselves. If you want control over both compression and rebound you need full cartridge kit. This valves that sit on the top of stock damper only control compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickshift Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, kylerhsm said: I'm from in Australia and I dropped Motodc an email after reading this thread to see if they'd ship to Australia and what the cost would but after 24 hours haven't received a response. They shipped mine to Australia... I’ve used them on the track and they were fine! Edited April 17, 2019 by stickshift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylerhsm Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 20 minutes ago, stickshift said: They shipped mine to Australia... I’ve used them on the track and they were fine! Awesome. Do you know what they cost delivered? You can PM me if you don't want it public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylerhsm Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, twf said: If you want control over both compression and rebound you need full cartridge kit. This valves that sit on the top of stock damper only control compression. I don't want control over rebound and damping, I want rebound and damping to be independant from each other. They specify very lightweight oil for these which from what I've gathered will give a much quicker compression stroke than standard, and then the DDC slows the rebound, simulating much heavier oil on the rebound stroke. End result, lighter compression and heavier rebound. Whereas damper rods give the same compression and rebound regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 That is what I meant, separate control of both. Lighter oil is better for consistency but to use it you need valve (or modify hole size in damper rod if no valves). Valve is what gives you damping curve that works better than damper rod which is progressive. You want linear or digressive. It is not that you have lighter compression but that oil flow is not as restricted when you hit bump (increase velocity). Rebound is still controlled only by oil viscosity, oil flow is fixed by leakage. You can change it by changing size of the hole or closing it altogether. Valve has no influence on rebound. And it is not independent from each other but you can tune them independently. You can use heavier oil to get more rebound which does change compression but since you have valve you can change setting on valve to work with oil you use for rebound. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickshift Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 On 4/17/2019 at 2:24 PM, kylerhsm said: Awesome. Do you know what they cost delivered? You can PM me if you don't want it public. I can’t remember exactly, the postage cost was fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 Yesterday I received everything for my suspension upgrade. I'm in a bit of a hurry to get this done for an upcoming trip and wish I'd started this sooner so I could've had the time to talk to @pattonme (and get a discount, oh well) but with what he and other's have posted in the past I think I'm going to be alright with my set-up. I'm not going with just new springs starting out because I know the bushings are shot. My bike is 4 yrs. old now, My suspension >>> . This should be a real treat! I'll report back on how they're working after my road trip in the mountains of Georgia. > (finally! lol!) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BD7RETI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WNE0BRS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Shock Springs, Sonic Springs SONICSPRINGS.COM Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 Here's my short review of the my suspension upgrade. The trip was awesome and the bike handled great on the verrrry twisty roads! The ride felt firm and took on the bumps and corners like a champ but it wasn't so firm that it felt real harsh when I encountered fairly large bumps, just a little harsh but you're going to get that with a firm suspension but you want a firm suspension. Too soft just sucks! Overall, I'm pretty happy with it! If you're wanting to upgrade your suspension on the cheap this is the way to go. It performs much better than stock and I feel it will last a good while. Edit: I used All Balls bushing kit, despite amazons warning because All Balls claims it fits … it doesn't. Just buy OEM bushings, they'll work just fine. Update: I was just informed by a reliable source that the default lower bushing in the OEM kit is no good and to Use AB/38-1017 instead. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WNE0BRS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Shock Springs, Sonic Springs SONICSPRINGS.COM https://www.amazon.com/Maxima-55901-10WT-Standard-Hydraulic/dp/B000WK8XEI/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=maxima+10+weight+fork+oil&qid=1558616179&s=automotive&sr=1-1-fkmrnull 1 Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Terry_b Posted May 23, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted May 23, 2019 On 5/18/2019 at 10:54 AM, Beemer said: Here's my short review of the my suspension upgrade. The trip was awesome and the bike handled great on the verrrry twisty roads! The ride felt firm and took on the bumps and corners like a champ but it wasn't so firm that it felt real harsh when I encountered fairly large bumps, just a little harsh but you're going to get that with a firm suspension but you want a firm suspension. Too soft just sucks! Overall, I'm pretty happy with it! If you're wanting to upgrade your suspension on the cheap this is the way to go. It performs much better than stock and I feel it will last a good while. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BD7RETI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WNE0BRS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Shock Springs, Sonic Springs SONICSPRINGS.COM What fork oil did you end up going with? I've looked up the spring rates, and it seems like stock spring rate should be good for me, but heavier oil would be a great cheap upgrade. I'm thinking of grabbing some oil and a preload adjuster for my "on-the-cheap" fork upgrade. I'm really missing the forks from my '08 FZ1 on this bike. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WJVGSE/ref=crt_ewc_title_huc_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 7 hours ago, Terry_b said: What fork oil did you end up going with? I've looked up the spring rates, and it seems like stock spring rate should be good for me, but heavier oil would be a great cheap upgrade. I'm thinking of grabbing some oil and a preload adjuster for my "on-the-cheap" fork upgrade. I'm really missing the forks from my '08 FZ1 on this bike. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WJVGSE/ref=crt_ewc_title_huc_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER I went with Maxima 10 weight and it works fine. I was thinking about using a heavier weight until I read this (below) from another forum member. It made sense to me so I played it safe. It's not to say a 15 weight won't work OK for you but according to how my shocks react to small bumps (which is almost perfect on my bike with my set-up) I do believe a heavier oil would make the small bumps feel too jarring, at least on my bike with me on it. Your experience may be different. Do as you wish, though, this is just a heads up and GL! Let us know what you ended up doing and how it works for you. Also, thanks for asking what weight oil I used, I added it to my review so there is no confusion down the road. "YZEtc Posted April 24, 2016 Surprised nobody answered this. The stock oil is 10 weight with a 162mm oil level. That's 162mm from the top of the fork tube after the spring is removed, all air bubbles purged from the fork oil, and the fork bottomed-out. There's a trade-off.15 weight oil (or a custom blend of half 10 weight and half 15 weight oils to make a 12.5 weight oil if you want to try a smaller incremental change) will make compression and rebound slower via more damping, but sharp bump compliance may suffer enough to be bothersome (sudden bumps that make the fork move very quickly). You won't know until you experiment. You can also try simply adding 10 weight oil to increase the oil level in 5mm increments, effectively increasing spring rate (via upping the air spring effect)." 1 Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member fzar Posted May 23, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted May 23, 2019 On 4/20/2019 at 8:35 AM, Beemer said: Yesterday I received everything for my suspension upgrade. I'm in a bit of a hurry to get this done for an upcoming trip and wish I'd started this sooner so I could've had the time to talk to @pattonme (and get a discount, oh well) but with what he and other's have posted in the past I think I'm going to be alright with my set-up. I'm not going with just new springs starting out because I know the bushings are shot. My bike is 4 yrs. old now, My suspension >>> . This should be a real treat! I'll report back on how they're working after my road trip in the mountains of Georgia. > (finally! lol!) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BD7RETI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WNE0BRS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Shock Springs, Sonic Springs SONICSPRINGS.COM When I click the link for the All balls fork bushing kit it says it does not fit 2015 or 16 FZ-07 !!! Is amazon making a mistake? @Beemer or maybe I'm doing something wrong! Dunno.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member DewMan Posted May 24, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted May 24, 2019 7 hours ago, fzar said: When I click the link for the All balls fork bushing kit it says it does not fit 2015 or 16 FZ-07 !!! Is amazon making a mistake? @Beemer or maybe I'm doing something wrong! Dunno.. I suggest staying far away from the All Balls fork bushing kit. @Beemer and I had nothing but problems with the fit of the upper bushing when doing his upgrade. The lower bushings worked fine. 1 DewMan Just shut up and ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 16 hours ago, fzar said: When I click the link for the All balls fork bushing kit it says it does not fit 2015 or 16 FZ-07 !!! Is amazon making a mistake? @Beemer or maybe I'm doing something wrong! Dunno.. Sorry, I forgot to mention that. I should've mentioned that. If you go to the All Balls website it says it fits the FZ-07 but do not trust that. Do yourself a favor and just get OEM. 1 Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 I use the AB products (seals and upper bushing) all the time on FZ07 builds so I'm not sure what fitment problems you're referring to. Granted I don't buy the kits, rather the individual parts. You can use OEM of course if you like. The only part I would not use from OEM/AB is the default lower bushing. Use AB/38-1017 instead. Any conversation about oil needs to consult this chart (https://sites.google.com/site/forksbymatt/resources/oil-list) or your own. There are viscosity mix calculators (eg. https://widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html) on Google that will give you how much of what to mix to get XcSt@40 values. For damper rods I think 38'ish cSt@40 is a good target. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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