My Budget Suspension

[fzar]

6 hours ago, pattonme said:

I use the AB products (seals and upper bushing) all the time on FZ07 builds so I'm not sure what fitment problems you're referring to. Granted I don't buy the kits, rather the individual parts. You can use OEM of course if you like. The only part I would not use from OEM/AB is the default lower bushing. Use AB/38-1017 instead. 

Thanks @pattonme , I'm seriously looking into suspension upgrades at the moment. I,ve been asking a lot of questions to other members on here about their racetech setup, and have seen some about traxxion AR-25. I had a slight off a while back and broke the steering stem on the lower triple, and slightly indented the Priest's collar on the frame that meets the lower triple stem (that's what I call it). I had the forks off and the right side inner tube is slightly bent, nothing noticeable while riding. I know I can get replacement inner  easily enough from part web stores. I'll start another thread with pictures and where I'm at, and seeking advice about what to do, from anyone who might have advice.

Nice to see you back here @pattonme even if it's just for a short time.  Happy Memorial Day (weekend)

[DewMan]

7 hours ago, pattonme said:

I use the AB products (seals and upper bushing) all the time on FZ07 builds so I'm not sure what fitment problems you're referring to. Granted I don't buy the kits, rather the individual parts. You can use OEM of course if you like. The only part I would not use from OEM/AB is the default lower bushing. Use AB/38-1017 instead. 

 

Hey stranger! Good to see you again. You've been missed around here.

The issue we had was that the fit was so tight that it took almost an hour to tap it down into place... even without the upper leg in place... Yeah I know.. that was a brain cramp on my part. But even with the upper tube not installed it was in there so tight that it took dremeling out the AB bushing to get it out which destroyed it of course, after my local dealer's shop couldn't get it out of the bare lower leg either.  It may have just been a lemon bushing that was a couple mm too long, but putting the OEM upper bushings back in, which were still in good shape... it only took a few minutes, even with the upper fork properly installed that time. If I'd installed the upper fork leg, as I should have prior to installing the AB bushing, I'm not sure it would have ever come apart again with as tight as the bushing was in there.
I should have stopped before I got it finally seated all the way in and pulled it out since I was thinking "I don't remember it taking this much effort to install last time". but lesson learned.

[Beemer]

20 hours ago, pattonme said:

I use the AB products (seals and upper bushing) all the time on FZ07 builds so I'm not sure what fitment problems you're referring to. Granted I don't buy the kits, rather the individual parts. You can use OEM of course if you like. The only part I would not use from OEM/AB is the default lower bushing. Use AB/38-1017 instead. 

Any conversation about oil needs to consult this chart (https://sites.google.com/site/forksbymatt/resources/oil-list) or your own. There are viscosity mix calculators (eg. https://widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html) on Google that will give you how much of what to mix to get XcSt@40 values. For damper rods I think 38'ish cSt@40 is a good target.

I wasn't aware of any particular parts in the OEM kit being inferior so thanks for stepping up and mentioning that. You probably just saved a lot of people a big head-ache, me included.

Side note: the particular bushing from the All Balls kit that didn't fit is bushing #38-2002. Everything else in their kit worked fine.

 

[Terry_b]

On 5/23/2019 at 9:20 AM, Beemer said:

I went with Maxima 10 weight and it works fine. I was thinking about using a heavier weight until I read this (below) from another forum member. It made sense to me so I played it safe. It's not to say a 15 weight won't work OK for you but according to how my shocks react to small bumps (which is almost perfect on my bike with my set-up) I do believe a heavier oil would make the small bumps feel too jarring, at least on my bike with me on it. Your experience may be different. Do as you wish, though, this is just a heads up and GL! Let us know what you ended up doing and how it works for you. Also, thanks for asking what weight oil I used, I added it to my review so there is no confusion down the road. 

"YZEtc

Posted April 24, 2016

 

Surprised nobody answered this.
 
The stock oil is 10 weight with a 162mm oil level.
That's 162mm from the top of the fork tube after the spring is removed, all air bubbles purged from the fork oil,
and the fork bottomed-out.
 There's a trade-off.15 weight oil (or a custom blend of half 10 weight and half 15 weight oils to make a 12.5 weight oil if you want to try a smaller incremental change) will make compression and rebound slower via more damping, but sharp bump compliance may suffer enough to be bothersome (sudden bumps that make the fork move very quickly).

You won't know until you experiment.
 
You can also try simply adding 10 weight oil to increase the oil level in 5mm increments, effectively increasing spring rate (via
upping the air spring effect)."

Thanks!

Ok, So now I'm questioning whether it's worth it to disassemble brand new forks... If stock oil weight is 10 and 15 is risking too harsh...

I am actually pretty happy overall, it's clearly a budget suspension, and the one thing I would definitely like to change is the amount of front end dive. Between the on-off throttle response and heavy engine braking, sometimes just driving in traffic can feel like the suspension can't cope well. (I'm hoping to remove some of the problem when I can tune out the injector decel cut).

Would this be better addressed with setting more pre-load? Maybe followed by emulators? I am also a bit interested in this kit:

Ohlins Spring Kit FSK100 | Yamaha FZ-07 / MT-07 / XSR700

---

Ohlins Spring are the easiest way to improve overall handling, traction, feedback, cornering and performance on your Yamaha. Now at TST!

 

[Beemer]

1 hour ago, Terry_b said:

Thanks!

Ok, So now I'm questioning whether it's worth it to disassemble brand new forks... If stock oil weight is 10 and 15 is risking too harsh...

I am actually pretty happy overall, it's clearly a budget suspension, and the one thing I would definitely like to change is the amount of front end dive. Between the on-off throttle response and heavy engine braking, sometimes just driving in traffic can feel like the suspension can't cope well. (I'm hoping to remove some of the problem when I can tune out the injector decel cut).

Would this be better addressed with setting more pre-load? Maybe followed by emulators? I am also a bit interested in this kit:

Ohlins Spring Kit FSK100 | Yamaha FZ-07 / MT-07 / XSR700

---

Ohlins Spring are the easiest way to improve overall handling, traction, feedback, cornering and performance on your Yamaha. Now at TST!

 

Sorry, I'm not tech savvy so maybe one of our forum gurus can answer this for you.

[kylerhsm]

I find the MT07 forks to already be quite harsh and sharp bumps in the road are transferred straight through to the chassis. My daily commute to work is full of bumps and jolts and it upsets the bike a lot whilst turning, even at 60km/h. I know it's the shet suspension, because I also have an MT03 660 which I ride to work occasionally and it is night and day better than the MT07. It absorbs the very same bumps with absolute perfection. It's also a damper rod fork setup, so I can only assume that the MT07 must run pretty crappy springs.

[stickshift]

13 hours ago, Terry_b said:

I am actually pretty happy overall, it's clearly a budget suspension, and the one thing I would definitely like to change is the amount of front end dive. Between the on-off throttle response and heavy engine braking, sometimes just driving in traffic can feel like the suspension can't cope well. (I'm hoping to remove some of the problem when I can tune out the injector decel cut).

If you fit a decent rear shock you will be surprised how much the front suspension action is improved. The lack of rear damping contributes a lot to the front jumping around. Removing he fuel decel cut  will also help a little.

A quality aftermarket rear shock is the single best mod for this bike in my opinion. 

[mjh937]

I agree with @stickshift.  I replaced my rear shock first and was amazed how much better the front felt.  I thought the forks were the problem but with a decent rear shock they are really not that bad. 

[fzar]

On 5/27/2019 at 6:27 AM, Terry_b said:

I am also a bit interested in this kit:

Ohlins Spring Kit FSK100 | Yamaha FZ-07 / MT-07 / XSR700

---

Ohlins Spring are the easiest way to improve overall handling, traction, feedback, cornering and performance on your Yamaha. Now at TST!

 

Interesting, I haven't seen this kit before.

[stickshift]

55 minutes ago, fzar said:

Interesting, I haven't seen this kit before.

The price is excessive for just springs and preload adjusters. 

[Terry_b]

Are the eBay preload adjusters ok? I'm honestly a bit concerned about hitting a sharp bump and having a catastrophic failure of the forks, lol

[fzar]

2 hours ago, stickshift said:

The price is excessive for just springs and preload adjusters.

I hear ya on that @stickshift I just hadn't come across them before. I find it hard to think the springs are any superior from Ohlins than that of sonic, traxxion, racetech, etc. but they are a tidy looking piece, expensive, but you probably get Ohlins stickers!! 

[zooman72]

On 5/27/2019 at 7:27 AM, Terry_b said:

Thanks!

Ok, So now I'm questioning whether it's worth it to disassemble brand new forks... If stock oil weight is 10 and 15 is risking too harsh...

I am actually pretty happy overall, it's clearly a budget suspension, and the one thing I would definitely like to change is the amount of front end dive. Between the on-off throttle response and heavy engine braking, sometimes just driving in traffic can feel like the suspension can't cope well. (I'm hoping to remove some of the problem when I can tune out the injector decel cut).

Would this be better addressed with setting more pre-load? Maybe followed by emulators? I am also a bit interested in this kit:

Ohlins Spring Kit FSK100 | Yamaha FZ-07 / MT-07 / XSR700

---

Ohlins Spring are the easiest way to improve overall handling, traction, feedback, cornering and performance on your Yamaha. Now at TST!

 

Preload adjusters are best for setting suspension sag, and I found that even after replacing the rear shock that the front end was still too "sloppy" for me, and front-end brake dive was still too much.  Heavier-weight oil and stiffer springs did cure about 80% of that, with about a 20-30% reduction in bump compliance in colder weather.  I may try to increase sag a bit from 32 mm now front and back to 35-37 mm on both and see if there is a discernible difference.  I knew that might be an issue, but it was worth it to try.

 

I have also not had my ECU re-flashed yet - I picked up the bike with an EJK already installed, and it has allowed me to install a Black Widow exhaust without additional cost to remedy a lean-running condition.  To be honest, I simply changed the way I downshift, and usually come to a stop in 3rd gear to reduce the engine braking effect - i.e. I simply use less downshifting.  I also have a Yamaha Star Stryker that has been re-flashed, and it is a great upgrade (huge difference w/ V&H exhaust), but not sure I will "need" it for the FZ-07.

23 hours ago, Terry_b said:

Are the eBay preload adjusters ok? I'm honestly a bit concerned about hitting a sharp bump and having a catastrophic failure of the forks, lol

I have some installed, and they have been fine, with the same overall metal and wall thickness as the OE non-adjustable caps - I think you would need to have a non-recoverable impact to damage them, probably bending a wheel first.  If you get them, just re-use the OE rubber gasket on the new adjusters, as the one they come with is too small in thickness.

 

To be honest, if I had to do it all over again (and knowing what I now know), I would probably go with the Cogent DDC valves and 5W oil and the heavier springs (I am 215 lbs. in gear), and I may do just that after I try this current set-up for a full summer season first.

[1tondriver]

On 5/30/2019 at 7:18 PM, zooman72 said:

Preload adjusters are best for setting suspension sag, and I found that even after replacing the rear shock that the front end was still too "sloppy" for me, and front-end brake dive was still too much.  Heavier-weight oil and stiffer springs did cure about 80% of that, with about a 20-30% reduction in bump compliance in colder weather.  I may try to increase sag a bit from 32 mm now front and back to 35-37 mm on both and see if there is a discernible difference.  I knew that might be an issue, but it was worth it to try.

 

I have also not had my ECU re-flashed yet - I picked up the bike with an EJK already installed, and it has allowed me to install a Black Widow exhaust without additional cost to remedy a lean-running condition.  To be honest, I simply changed the way I downshift, and usually come to a stop in 3rd gear to reduce the engine braking effect - i.e. I simply use less downshifting.  I also have a Yamaha Star Stryker that has been re-flashed, and it is a great upgrade (huge difference w/ V&H exhaust), but not sure I will "need" it for the FZ-07.

I have some installed, and they have been fine, with the same overall metal and wall thickness as the OE non-adjustable caps - I think you would need to have a non-recoverable impact to damage them, probably bending a wheel first.  If you get them, just re-use the OE rubber gasket on the new adjusters, as the one they come with is too small in thickness.

 

To be honest, if I had to do it all over again (and knowing what I now know), I would probably go with the Cogent DDC valves and 5W oil and the heavier springs (I am 215 lbs. in gear), and I may do just that after I try this current set-up for a full summer season first.

I am with you. I just ordered the DDC and the suggested 5w oil. I also picked up some adjustable caps.  At 200lbs the stock springs should be just fine from the people I have talked to. Will report back after some miles under my belt. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by 1tondriver