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applekoolaid

Axle bolt stripped...everyone beware

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applekoolaid
I have seen a couple of other FZ owners encounter this problem and it happened to me too.
I went to make a chain adjustment and backed off the self locking nut on the axle bolt.  When I began to tighten the nut back up it was frozen solid.  It wouldn't tighten or loosen.  I have never had the nut off the bolt so I know it's not cross threaded.  I did a quick google search to find that others have had a problem with grit/debris getting in there and causing the self locking nut to basically weld itself onto the axle bolt.  Others have ruined multiple parts and bent pieces trying to get the nut off (some even having to grind it off).  Luckily I was able to work the nut back and forth a quarter of an inch at a time until it finally worked free and released.  I still completely ruined the bolt itself and nut, but at least that's the only damage. 
Has anyone else had this happen?  What do you do to prevent this? 
One guy suggested slapping grease over the ends of the threads so debris won't get in there, but it seems like that would actually attract dirt and debris.  Any suggestions?
FYI...the part numbers for the axle bolt (shaft,pivot 4FN-22141-00-00) and self locking nut (90185-18009-00)
About a $50 screw up if you're lucky and several hundred if you're not....
 
 
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Cruizin
I don't have an answer for that issue, maybe grease would at least stop the nut and bolt from locking together?

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howworkclutch
sounds like galling

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bmwpowere36m3
Never had an issue with axle locking nuts... unless the quality of the factory hardware is poor (not saying it is). Sometimes we are "blessed" with a dealer tech, you goes gorilla-tight on bike-prep. I always put a dab of anti-sieze on almost all my fasteners that DON'T get thread-locker. I also put a very, very light wipe of grease on the axle itself.

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Cruizin
Probably is dealer caused. Their new techs usually are the kind of guys that I wouldn't let mow my lawn.

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yamahaha
Axle nuts and oil drain plugs are over torqued big time at the factory. This could "pull" threads on the axle shaft or nut. I'm amazed no one has damaged an oil pan trying to get the plug out it is so tight.
 
Nylock type locking nuts should not have locktight, never seize, etc. applied. Defeats the purpose of the nylock and may react with the nylon. I've never had an axle nut seize; either nylock or regular. I'm careful not to over torque.
 
If I was going to use anything on bike fasteners it would be blue locktite and I use it on most everything that is not nylock. When I use locktite I just snug up the fasteners lightly.
 
Never use never seize around aluminum. It is often copper based. Copper and aluminum do not mix.

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Guest unknown
EVERY nut on this bike is over-torqued from the factory IMO. The rear shock was pita to break the bolts for removal.

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bmwpowere36m3
Axle nuts and oil drain plugs are over torqued big time at the factory. This could "pull" threads on the axle shaft or nut. I'm amazed no one has damaged an oil pan trying to get the plug out it is so tight. 
Nylock type locking nuts should not have locktight, never seize, etc. applied. Defeats the purpose of the nylock and may react with the nylon. I've never had an axle nut seize; either nylock or regular. I'm careful not to over torque.
 
If I was going to use anything on bike fasteners it would be blue locktite and I use it on most everything that is not nylock. When I use locktite I just snug up the fasteners lightly.
 
Never use never seize around aluminum. It is often copper based. Copper and aluminum do not mix.
 
 
Are the factory locknuts nylocs? Or are they fuji nuts, i.e. they incorporate a little metal tang to lock onto the threads.
 
I agree about not using thread-locker or anti-seize/lube with nylocs. As far as copper anti-seize.... never had an issue with aluminum or copper sealing washers for that matter. I use copper anti-seize on everything.

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applekoolaid
No nylon, appear to be Fuji style @bmwpowere36m3
nut.jpg

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yamahaha
 

As far as copper anti-seize.... never had an issue with aluminum or copper sealing washers for that matter. I use copper anti-seize on everything. 
 

I'm happy you have never had an issue. Do you own an aluminum boat per chance? Aluminum boat owners are well versed in galvanic corrosion and electrolosis as well as engine rebuilders.  
 

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pattonme
I believe bikes in crates come with rear wheel on? If not, this is probably dealer-induced/aggravated. Not to say the threads of the axle or the nut might not be complete crap, specification compliance-wise when they left the factory. It's perfectly fine to put some anti-seize on these threads but sparingly (dab). It might not be a bad idea to chase the threads with a die. Technically the nut is supposed to be replaced every couple of uses, not that anyone actually does so. I guess we need to add to the owner's manual:
 
"apply spray penetrant and let sit 10 minutes."
 
IMO just buy a couple nuts and the first time you loosen, take the factory one off all the way and inspect the axle threads. Who knows, maybe this is another recall in the making.

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hobbs
Strike hold is the bee's knees, most used item in my tool box.
 
It basically does everything, but for tough bolts it works miracles.
 
I picked a bottle up when I owned my '76.. it saved my sanity and knuckles quite a bit.
 
Can be found @ http://www.dimecitycycles.com/vintage-cafe-racer-caferacer-bobber-brat-chopper-custom-motorcycle-tools-rust-preventor-lubricant-strikehold.html
 

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bmwpowere36m3

As far as copper anti-seize.... never had an issue with aluminum or copper sealing washers for that matter. I use copper anti-seize on everything. 
 

I'm happy you have never had an issue. Do you own an aluminum boat per chance? Aluminum boat owners are well versed in galvanic corrosion and electrolosis as well as engine rebuilders.  

 
 
Boats yes, aluminium hull no. Boating and its environment is very different than that of motorcycles or cars. I'm just sharing my expierence with typical steel fasteners in steel or cast iron or aluminum or magnesium components/parts.
 
I've had great success with Liqui Moly LM 508 Anti-Seize Compound. However I've also used nickel-based, moly, aluminum anti-seize as well without issue.

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bmwpowere36m3
I believe bikes in crates come with rear wheel on? If not, this is probably dealer-induced/aggravated. Not to say the threads of the axle or the nut might not be complete crap, specification compliance-wise when they left the factory. It's perfectly fine to put some anti-seize on these threads but sparingly (dab). It might not be a bad idea to chase the threads with a die. Technically the nut is supposed to be replaced every couple of uses, not that anyone actually does so. I guess we need to add to the owner's manual: 
"apply spray penetrant and let sit 10 minutes."
 
IMO just buy a couple nuts and the first time you loosen, take the factory one off all the way and inspect the axle threads. Who knows, maybe this is another recall in the making.
 
 
+1
 
I reuse those Fuji style nuts till they no longer thread on with resistance, then I replace. Nylocs should be replaced each time, but I've been known to reuse as well. It's really a judgement call. Thread-locker can be used in a pinch with both of those as well.
 
My thumper, dirt bike, loves so shake fasteners loose... they call get anti-seize or threadlocker. If it's a fastener I loosen often/check, then I use anti-seize (always sparingly).

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avanti
For what it's worth (maybe nothing, of course), the factory Shop Manual on disassembling Chrysler hemi engines, at least the originals up through 1958, instructed to use an impact wrench when disassembling because the "strikes" of the impact in operation were less stressful on the fastener threads than loosening them by hand. Unfortunately, my last Manual went with my last 392-engined convertible and I haven't another Manual to actually quote, as I otherwise normally would.
 
Just a thought about loosening factory fasteners, in general.
 
Btw, as I recall, Carroll Smith in his book, Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook (1990) states that "modern" nylocs can be reused if not damaged.  Doesn't mean I do so, but this is from an expert.
 

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rowdy
So I wish I had seen this post before I did this.
I would have at least thrown some waterproof grease on the axle.

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bmwpowere36m3
So I wish I had seen this post before I did this. I would have at least thrown some waterproof grease on the axle.
 
 
I read an article, I think in Hot Rod mag, where they tested a few 1/2" clicker torque wrenches. A harbor freight one was just as accurate, if not more than some. I think the Craftsman one was the "worst".
 
That said I picked up two used Snap-Ons on eBay, years ago and have then periodically checked... Haven't needed to calibrate/adjust them yet.
 
With clicker torque wrenches the most important thing is always fully backing them out before storing and checking them periodically. Then things like technique play a role, applying force smoothly till it clicks and not jerking the handle, not continuing to apply force after it clicks and not using them to loosen hardware...

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rowdy
So I wish I had seen this post before I did this. I would have at least thrown some waterproof grease on the axle.
I read an article, I think in Hot Rod mag, where they tested a few 1/2" clicker torque wrenches. A harbor freight one was just as accurate, if not more than some. I think the Craftsman one was the "worst".
 
That said I picked up two used Snap-Ons on eBay, years ago and have then periodically checked... Haven't needed to calibrate/adjust them yet.
 
With clicker torque wrenches the most important thing is always fully backing them out before storing and checking them periodically. Then things like technique play a role, applying force smoothly till it clicks and not jerking the handle, not continuing to apply force after it clicks and not using them to loosen hardware...
I realize craftsmen are not the best, but for the the price?  Hell, I'd use that much in gas finding a Harbor Freight and Sears is a mile and a half from my house. Besides... close enough for rock and roll (when the alternative was the elbow meter, or another craftsman at the the very end of it's range). 

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cndnmax
I read an article, I think in Hot Rod mag, where they tested a few 1/2" clicker torque wrenches. A harbor freight one was just as accurate, if not more than some. I think the Craftsman one was the "worst". 
That said I picked up two used Snap-Ons on eBay, years ago and have then periodically checked... Haven't needed to calibrate/adjust them yet.
 
With clicker torque wrenches the most important thing is always fully backing them out before storing and checking them periodically. Then things like technique play a role, applying force smoothly till it clicks and not jerking the handle, not continuing to apply force after it clicks and not using them to loosen hardware...
I realize craftsmen are not the best, but for the the price?  Hell, I'd use that much in gas finding a Harbor Freight and Sears is a mile and a half from my house. Besides... close enough for rock and roll (when the alternative was the elbow meter, or another craftsman at the the very end of it's range).
 
I have 3 craftman torque wrenches and I like them. Harbor freight is hit and miss. You could get one that it calibrated or get one that will never click.

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bmwpowere36m3
@rowdy @cndnmax
When I said "worst" I meant relative... not saying they are bad wrenches.  Anyway, here's the article: link  Food for thought.  I generally don't buy tools from HF due to their quality.  My father taught me to appreciate having nice tools, as he owns/runs a repair/body shop and relies on them to make a living.  He predominantly uses Snap-On, some Matco and Blue-Point... but them also come at a high cost.  At home we have a mix of Snap-On and Craftsman tools.
However I've had great luck at HF with things like: nitrile gloves, MX lift stand, MC wheel chock (for trailering), pneumatic framing nailer, and tool boxes/cabinets.  For the money I'm super impressed with the tool boxes (like this one: link), beats Craftsman/Husky in quality and price.  Not the same as Snap-On, but about 10x less and for the home mechanic... can't be beat.  Now I just want my dad to retire so I can inherit an ungodly amount of tools... :D

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rick
i tend to use a penetrating oil on everything I can reach when it comes straight from the factory.
 
Keep in mind, that any fastener that's installed with X ft-lbs will break free with X + Y force - depending on how much friction is created by the threads and head of the bolt/nut. It'll always be worse from the factory cause everything will be clean and dry - more friction.
 
Antisieze is great stuff, I use it all the time. But ya gotta remember to decrease the torque from whatever is specified unless the spec is after lube. 25-30% less is probably a good place.
 
I won't Loctite anything that's not been specified for it unless it has a history of coming loose. What's the spec on that rear axle nut - 80ft-lbs? It's not coming undone on its own.
 
Antisieze does come in aluminum formulations, btw. It's a real pita to get off your hands.

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pattonme
axle nuts really don't need to be 80ft lbs. I generally target 50-55.

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gregjet
As bizarre as it may sound, nutlock loctite will act as a sort of lubricant ( admittedly a pretty stiff one) when you remove the nut. It separates the two metal surfaces and helps prevent galling. Studloc is however another story don't use it unless absolutely necessary. And if you use nutloc on aluminium threads it is stronger than the aluminium so will tear the threads unless you acetone it first.
I use loctite on any thread that is tension critical, though not much in a lot of cases, and not if there is a locknut. It's a hang over from bikes that vibrated a lot and racing where the revs were always vibrating the living bejezus out of everything.

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Beemer
My question is, did the grit get on the bolt before the nut was put on at the factory or since you bought it or was it something other than grit that caused it to jam up? I don't see how grit could work it's way in there so much as to do that. I think it's more likely factory installed grit if grit caused it. I've never read an article on this problem so I'm at a loss there, grease/lock tight is what I would try. To get the nut off I would spray some penetrating oil between the nut and the bolt (on the threads) and let it rest awhile, let it do it's magic and then try to work the nut. To better my chances of it coming off easier I would heat that nut also to make it expand and then give it a try. Careful of hot nuts!

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rick
axle nuts really don't need to be 80ft lbs. I generally target 50-55.
think the actual number Manuel calls for is 76 
I've had my rear axle out w/o incident. It was good and tight from the factory. 

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