Comparing low end torque on sport or super sport bikes.

[SkH]

Alright, so FZ07 is my first motorcycle.  My previous experience is whatever I rode in the MSF course.  Honda Nighthawk I think.  I vaguely remember how the Nighthawk rode, but for the most part, I only know the FZ07.
 
Last week I rode some 300cc motorcycle (R3 and CB300F) for my wife's shopping.  I finally experienced different characteristics.  This case, revving the engine to near redline to get any usable power.
 
So it got me thinking, how is the low end torque on say a R6 or ZX6R?  Is it like a bigger version of a 300cc sportbike where you have to rev it high and then it goes from tame to gets crazy dangerous?    Does the FZ07 have more power on the low end compared to these bikes?  Anyone who has ridden 600-1k sport bikes, can you chime in?
 
I'm interested.  I would like to try out a R6 or something during a demo day, hopefully I can to see for myself how it would compare.  The whole different characteristics of various motorcycles is intriguing me.

[pantheraleo]

Alright, so FZ07 is my first motorcycle.  My previous experience is whatever I rode in the MSF course.  Honda Nighthawk I think.  I vaguely remember how the Nighthawk rode, but for the most part, I only know the FZ07. 
Last week I rode some 300cc motorcycle (R3 and CB300F) for my wife's shopping.  I finally experienced different characteristics.  This case, revving the engine to near redline to get any usable power.
 
So it got me thinking, how is the low end torque on say a R6 or ZX6R?  Is it like a bigger version of a 300cc sportbike where you have to rev it high and then it goes from tame to gets crazy dangerous?    Does the FZ07 have more power on the low end compared to these bikes?  Anyone who has ridden 600-1k sport bikes, can you chime in?
 
I'm interested.  I would like to try out a R6 or something during a demo day, hopefully I can to see for myself how it would compare.  The whole different characteristics of various motorcycles is intriguing me.

This last weekend, I rode a GSXR 750 and a GSXR 1000 at a Suzuki Demo Day.
 
The low end on the 750 is less than the FZ-07. It really comes alive at 8.5-9k. Its a great bike, but not a match for the FZ getting going from a dead stop. I imagine it would start to catch up around 70 or so, and its top end would be much better.
 
I would say the 1000 is comparable to the FZ low end. Maybe a small edge to the FZ at bottom, but the GSXR 1000 starts making some serious HP around 7k (and gets even better at 10k).
 
I was surprised how easy both of those bikes were to ride....except that my wrists hurt after riding them. The new GSXRs are designed with more mid-range according to the guys at the demo.

[Beemer]

The FZ in Europe is the MT, which stands for, "Master of Torque", look no more.

[g3ngo]

I've had 2 gsxr 750s, a cbr600rr, zx-6r, and fz-6. The sport bikes are easy to ride and their torque is totally adequate for street riding. They do not need to be revved out to create useable power.
 
The 600s could use more torque if you frequently ride with a passenger, but again very manageable.
 
Supersports are also less nimble at low speed and feel a bit awkward at parking lots.
 
I would estimate that a supersport will walk away from the fz-07 after about 40mph, where the supersports will have a huge power advantage over the fz.

[YZEtc]

I doubt you'd be impressed with the low end torque of any R6 - there's enough to ride with, but not strong.
After 9,000 RPM, they're mighty impressive.
That's how it is when looking to produce 110 horsepower with 600cc.

[SkH]

So what you guys are saying is FZ07's low end torque is far more noticeable/stronger than sport bikes of comparable engine size?
 
So basically I chose the perfect first bike then and might not need to ever upgrade unless they make a new motorcycle (3-5+ years down the road) that is comparable to it.

[Allan]

Well, perfect is a relative term. What is perfect to you may not be perfect to someone else. If you are looking for a 600cc characteristic for track riding and aggressive motogp-like canyon carving, a 600 may be the perfect bike. If you are looking for a city bike that does great in stop and go traffic and can get up to speed pretty quick but not have a crazy high end speed, the FZ-07 is perfect. It just depends on what your preferences and tastes are.

[rowdy]

Allan is exactly right. The FZ-07 is great for commuting, urban commando, in town hustle, weekend sorties, and hooliganism.
If I wanted a bike for long motorcycle trips, or racing on the track, or just plain thrashin' it in the twisties, there are better choices.
But no ONE bike can be the master of all disciplines, so you are forced to choose the one that fits the kind of riding you REALLY do (not the kind you dream you might do if your real life faded into fantasy land). That's what makes the FZ-07 a great choice for a lot of practical, well grounded, experienced riders.

[bmwpowere36m3]

Well, perfect is a relative term. What is perfect to you may not be perfect to someone else. If you are looking for a 600cc characteristic for track riding and aggressive motogp like canyon carving, a 600 may be the perfect bike. If you are looking for a city bike that does great in stop and go traffic and can get up to speed pretty quick but not have a crazy high end speed, the FZ-07 is perfect. It just depends on what your preferences and tastes are.

 
 
+1
 
It's all relative and dependent on your needs or desires... Horsepower is just torque x rpm / 5252. Dynos measure torque and calculate HP. Some engines create more torque at lower RPM, some at higher and some are relatively flat across the RPM range. Generally increasing an engine's displacement, increases torque.
 
A trick to generating more HP in small engines is increasing their rev range... Is not that simple, but you get the idea. That's why "high-strung" motors require you keep them up in the rev range to produce desirable power.
 
Engines are built with different purposes, some have a relatively flat torque curve and produce power "linearly"... I'd classify those as good all-round engines, i.e., very street friendly as they produce good power throughout the rev range. Others are built to deliver massive amounts of HP, but generally only do so within a certain rev range for various, complicated reasons. Their power delivery starts "weak", and then hits you like a ton of bricks... They require care, attention and a lot of shifting to stay in the power-band. But they reward you with shear power. Think racing, track days, super bikes, etc... If you've ever ridden a 2-stroke then you'll know what I'm taking about (power-delivery).
 
An engine with high torque and a flat curve would be awesome.... however usually you don't get both. Compromise, that's life.

[Guest cjwwd2]

An engine with high torque and a flat curve would be awesome.... however usually you don't get both. Compromise, that's life.

It's called the Triumph Daytona 675....and it's amazing 

[magsz18]

Ill give you an example.
 
I ride alot on the highways as everything in Florida is a straight shot.
 
I spend most of my time on my bike between 65 and 85 mph. The more i ride this bike the more i think i chose the wrong bike for my application. Dont get me wrong, i really do enjoy the bike and it works for what im asking it to do, but at 85 mph, you have far more power accessible to you on an R6. You also have a bike that handles wind better and is more stable at those speeds. On the FZ, at 85 mph you're at 6500 rpm and you're pushing the bike at 75% of its capacity or capability.

[rowdy]

An engine with high torque and a flat curve would be awesome.... however usually you don't get both. Compromise, that's life.

It's called the Triumph Daytona 675....and it's amazing 

It's great bike, but not without it's compromises, like price. 

[rowdy]

Ill give you an example. 
I ride alot on the highways as everything in Florida is a straight shot.
 
I spend most of my time on my bike between 65 and 85 mph. The more i ride this bike the more i think i chose the wrong bike for my application. Dont get me wrong, i really do enjoy the bike and it works for what im asking it to do, but at 85 mph, you have far more power accessible to you on an R6. You also have a bike that handles wind better and is more stable at those speeds. On the FZ, at 85 mph you're at 6500 rpm and you're pushing the bike at 75% of its capacity or capability.

If you are riding a lot of highways, you chose the wrong bike, but you can probably still get the FZ-07 to be much more comfortable for what you are doing.  Drag is the killer on a naked.  You are sitting upright and unprotected (drag goes up as speed - squared), so get a nice shield and tuck.   Find a seat that allows you to scoot back.  I use my FZ-07 mainly for commuting and weekend rides.  I put a Givi shield on it an I can scoot back, lean in, and be pretty comfortable at high speeds, but not for a long period of time.  That's why I want to add an FJ-09 to my stable.  

[SkH]

I only do city and urban riding.  Relative term... exactly. Hence why I said "I chose the perfect bike" not, FZ07 is a perfect bike.  I usually never do any freeway commuting.
 
I did do a 2 hour freeway ride but that was because I had to attend a family gathering and wanted an excuse to leave early, so took my motorcycle.

[Allan]

I only do city and urban riding.  Relative term... exactly. Hence why I said "I chose the perfect bike" not, FZ07 is a perfect bike. 
I did do a 2 hour freeway ride but that was because I had to attend a family gathering and wanted an excuse to leave early, so took my motorcycle.

Ah, well we didn't know that you only do city things before. Now that we do, yes. You did choose the perfect bike for your application. 

[crazycracka501]

I looked at it this way, I don't need to be going anywhere over 80 mph on the freeway anyway. That only gets me more tickets or dead. I needed a bike that could handle 75-80 mph on the freeway, give me the ability to carve canyons respectably, cruise in the city and give me that "Yeah!" moment when I wanted to take off fast. I am currently in the process of upgrading a few things, headlight, suspension, seat and soon a shield for the front to allow for more comfortable long haul rides. For me, this bike will have everything and that truly was difficult to find because I'm picky as hell. I was going to upgrade or add an FJ-09 later down the road, but I figured, for what I'll probably be putting down for a down payment on a new bike , I can make this one everything I want now, and I'll still get decent fuel mileage. I did add the EJK and exhaust because why not? A track bike it is really not, but for everything else, it hit the mark.

[YZEtc]

I believe an R6 would suck for city riding, not to mention a waste of money unless you want to look cool and impress other people.
It would be similar to having a top-shelf sports car and using it only for city driving.
Why?
FZ-07 is MUCH better for that stuff.

[Guest cjwwd2]

Ill give you an example. 
I ride alot on the highways as everything in Florida is a straight shot.
 
I spend most of my time on my bike between 65 and 85 mph. The more i ride this bike the more i think i chose the wrong bike for my application. Dont get me wrong, i really do enjoy the bike and it works for what im asking it to do, but at 85 mph, you have far more power accessible to you on an R6. You also have a bike that handles wind better and is more stable at those speeds. On the FZ, at 85 mph you're at 6500 rpm and you're pushing the bike at 75% of its capacity or capability.

I would have to agree that at those commuting speeds, you would be better off with something like an R6 for the power and wind protection. As far as comfort goes, the R6 will lose that battle. You almost want something like an FJ09 or some sort of touring bike with a windshield.

[ch3rryghost]

An engine with high torque and a flat curve would be awesome.... however usually you don't get both. Compromise, that's life.

It's called the Triumph Daytona 675....and it's amazing 

Mind talking a little more about the Daytona? Curiosity got me poking around, trying to find out what the most "friendly" SS bike is and I came across the Daytona out of what context I can't recall. But further light googling yielded little useful information.  
Is it known to be a more well-rounded super sport? It'd be a dream to have 2 bikes in the garage; grown to love the FZs comfort/power too much to trade it in for a SS, but to ADD to it...that's a different story

[howworkclutch]

the 675r is the ultimate motorcycle as far as i'm concerned. its ready to go racing out of the box. the suspension is unbelievably. its fueling is spot-on. it gets up from a dead stop with no drama and puts very respectable time-slips in your pocket (if you drag race). soften the suspension (and build up your core muscles) and you can tour with it.
 
its an incredible machine. you get a lot of bike for the money. and its fuel delivery is just done right. if you want to loaf along you can and you don't have to think about it. if you want to go fast just grab a handful and off you go. no worries.
 
as far as torque discussion, the fz07 has an impressive amount for its size. its no harley/buell but its enough to keep me satisfied. i think the bike is well-suited to really tight roads and i'm lucky to have a lot of those accessible. for the "west coast" style canyon carving i'd rather have a super-sport... something with some legs for the long sweepers. but out here in the really really tight switchbacks/chicanes, i'll take the torque of this bike any day. same for dense urban environs.
 
for someone who rides the long straights: a big fat hog is as fine a tool for that job as any.

[magsz18]

the 675r is the ultimate motorcycle as far as i'm concerned. its ready to go racing out of the box. the suspension is unbelievably. its fueling is spot-on. it gets up from a dead stop with no drama and puts very respectable time-slips in your pocket (if you drag race). soften the suspension (and build up your core muscles) and you can tour with it. 
its an incredible machine. you get a lot of bike for the money. and its fuel delivery is just done right. if you want to loaf along you can and you don't have to think about it. if you want to go fast just grab a handful and off you go. no worries.
 
as far as torque discussion, the fz07 has an impressive amount for its size. its no harley/buell but its enough to keep me satisfied. i think the bike is well-suited to really tight roads and i'm lucky to have a lot of those accessible. for the "west coast" style canyon carving i'd rather have a super-sport... something with some legs for the long sweepers. but out here in the really really tight switchbacks/chicanes, i'll take the torque of this bike any day. same for dense urban environs.
 
for someone who rides the long straights: a big fat hog is as fine a tool for that job as any.

Great post with alot of truth to it. 
Unfortunately, i cant make myself like cruisers.

[Beemer]

Rowdy said, "That's why I want to add an FJ-09 to my stable." 
 
Nice choice! That's a powerful, reliable, comfortable, bike that would make me very happy for years. I miss my little sport touring 550 Vision, if Yamaha made a 700 cc like it with the FZ 07's engine I would trade my FZ for it right now. 
 

[Guest cjwwd2]

It's called the Triumph Daytona 675....and it's amazing 

Mind talking a little more about the Daytona? Curiosity got me poking around, trying to find out what the most "friendly" SS bike is and I came across the Daytona out of what context I can't recall. But further light googling yielded little useful information.  
Is it known to be a more well-rounded super sport? It'd be a dream to have 2 bikes in the garage; grown to love the FZs comfort/power too much to trade it in for a SS, but to ADD to it...that's a different story

@howworkclutch did a pretty good job explaining above. I have the standard 675, not the 675R. If you aren't going to the track, I personally don't see the need for the R version. The R adds Brembo monobloc front brakes, Ohlins suspension front and rear, and adds a quickshifter as standard. Those are the only differences. 
It is true though that you really don't need to have it in higher RPMs to just go. If it's above 4000rpm, just twist the throttle and it gets it. No need to downshift in my experience.
 
I will say though...I have the quickshifter on mine and it is the tits. Seriously, the first time you use it you can't stop smiling and laughing. I was giggling like a schoolgirl behind my face shield 
 
I would definitely say it is the most well rounded middleweight supersport out there. It's got the torque of a twin with the high end revs and power of a 4cyl.

[g3ngo]

I wanted a Daytona 675, but had to get a more comfortable bike for my aging hips. Traded in my ZX-6R for the FZ-07 and don't miss the crotch rocket at all (except at 80mph on the freeway).

[e30kawi]

I just bought an fz07 and to me it feels like riding an electric bike or driving a turbo diesel that's always spooled up. Torque everywhere without the sudden onset like a super sport.