bigtwin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Oh yes....adjuster sight rings to see where you are with spring preload Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 by all mean, please provide good, close up pics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Those mid-valves look odd... the Andreani shim stacks look puny. The mid-valve cup washer (w/notches) typically is on the comp-side. Non-floating comp stacks on the MV, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I cannot seem to upload photos. Opened a Photobucket acc too.... Spent an hour on it.....I give up  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member hippiebikerchick Posted June 11, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted June 11, 2015 @bigtwin, using photobucket, make sure to use the direct link button. It's easy -Â here is a tutorial 1 Illegitimi non carborundum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/Dorian_Dandridge/20150611_203108_zpsucnulrjx.jpghttp://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/Dorian_Dandridge/20150611_203118_zps02iohp2f.jpg  2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Did you order straight from Italy or go thru fast bike industries? Â That'l sure make it easier to take the cap off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I live in The Netherlands (I'm a Brit) and ordered from here.... http://www.racingonestore.com 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Take the cap off ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 well, that's one way to stop the preload from going too far. On the set I have a snap-ring stops it. On this one the nut takes that role. Very interested in the "window". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 "Window"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Those mid-valves look odd... the Andreani shim stacks look puny. The mid-valve cup washer (w/notches) typically is on the comp-side. Non-floating comp stacks on the MV, correct?Technically a "mid-valve" is a setup whereby the piston that sits on the end of the shaft (the only type in this kit) has shim stacks on both sides and in particular contributes it's effects to the main compression stack on the other valve. In other words, it replaces the "pop-off" shim which has very little spring pressure applied, with an actual shim stack. In effect the compression stack is 2-stage. The "cup-washer" as you called it is present on whichever side of the piston is non-regulating. So on the C leg, that would be the underside, and on the R leg it would be the top side.  The shim stacks are "puny" on the R leg because they are using 0.2mm shims which are 8 times as bend-resistant as 0.1's. The C leg is puny because the amount of flow demanded is significant and they can't make it too stiff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Take the cap off ? Â One of the huge safety issues of the US-supplied kit is the need to compress the spring 60-70mm to get at the nut. On yours, it's about 15mm which is perfectly reasonable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I jumped the gun on the rings atop the gold insert.....now I have checked it....you are quite right about the pre-load 'guessing' rings..... its still the same on mine. really dumb! Â Tightening or loosening the cap nut is really easy. I can do it with one hand compressing the spring enough to fully expose the nut....leaving the other hand to wield a spanner. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Oh yes....adjuster sight rings to see where you are with spring preloadNo idea where I came up with "window".  But @bigtwin, go ahead and twist your preload adjuster and you'll see the rings don't move in our out. Think you could take some pictures/measurements like I did in http://fz07.org/post/41904? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I jumped the gun on the rings atop the gold insert.....now I have checked it....you are quite right about the pre-load 'guessing' rings..... its still the same on mine. really dumb! Â Read more: http://fz07.org/thread/2415/andreani-advanced-cartridge-kit?page=8#ixzz3cn7c7MA4 Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 "Think you could take some pictures/measurements like I did in fz07.org/post/41904?" Sure.... I do not particularly want to completely dismantle the cartridges though as I want to do the install Monday. I am busy with work etc until then. Â Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Take the cap off ?You'll need to unscrew the big nut (it becomes the cap on the forks - maybe not the technically correct term) from the shaft and then compress the spring to get back at the lock nut.  Wonder if there's rhyme/reason as to which style will show up? Hard to imagine they have 2 sets of parts at random. Maybe spring rate? NOS? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Those mid-valves look odd... the Andreani shim stacks look puny. The mid-valve cup washer (w/notches) typically is on the comp-side. Non-floating comp stacks on the MV, correct?Technically a "mid-valve" is a setup whereby the piston that sits on the end of the shaft (the only type in this kit) has shim stacks on both sides and in particular contributes it's effects to the main compression stack on the other valve. In other words, it replaces the "pop-off" shim which has very little spring pressure applied, with an actual shim stack. In effect the compression stack is 2-stage. The "cup-washer" as you called it is present on whichever side of the piston is non-regulating. So on the C leg, that would be the underside, and on the R leg it would be the top side.  The shim stacks are "puny" on the R leg because they are using 0.2mm shims which are 8 times as bend-resistant as 0.1's. The C leg is puny because the amount of flow demanded is significant and they can't make it too stiff.   So rebound and compression are separated between the forks in the andreani kit? Is that why the cartridge has holes near the top, for the comp side? Even a checked mid, with 2 mm of float provides a lot of damping due to the amount of fluid that the midvalve goes thru as compared to the basevalve. What is the diameter of the pistons?  On the drz with 24 mm pistons, the factory checked mid provided more damping than the basevalve.  0.2 shims... Yeah much stiffer, I'd like to see 0.1 face shims and more of them, of course. I like using 0.15 and 0.2 in shims, in forks, closer to the clamp shim, when possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 > So rebound and compression are separated between the forks in the andreani kit?  yes  > Is that why the cartridge has holes near the top, for the comp side?  Yes. The comp shims are on the 'top' side of the piston. On compression stroke, the column of oil below the piston is sealed so all of the displacement is forced thru the piston (see my earlier posts why this is a problem). On a more traditional setup the top is sealed (for rebound purposes) so the comp stack on the base valve acts as a semi-sealed floor which helps the oil push into the area behind the shaft-mounted rebound (mid) valve (as opposed to relying on vacuum to do the job) but since there isn't enough mm^3 for all the displaced oil (the shaft is taking up room), the balance is forced thru the base valve and out the bleed holes.   > Even a checked mid, with 2 mm of float provides a lot of damping due to the amount of fluid that the midvalve goes thru as compared to the basevalve.  Right. Because people tend to hit ginormous bumps with DRZs or go launch off jumps that are 5+ feet in the air and expect to land in one piece. Road forks aren't designed for that.  > What is the diameter of the pistons?  20mm but the orifice outer edge is 16mm. As I stated to FBI, IMO there just isn't enough surface area to properly pull off a split-function system. You need at least a 30mm piston. 25mm might work but I doubt it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Good stuff @pattonme I'll definitely be in touch at some point for your cartridge kit... A "better" solution in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I thought you wanted to see the shim stacks......and I did not want to dismantle to that level....I will however take measurements sans cap though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtwin Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 RE. cmar143 "I can't even put into words what kind of a difference it is. It's not just a stiff suspension where you feel every bump...it absorbs the bumps and doesn't translate them to the bars. I've only ridden it about an hour and haven't had a chance to even fine tune it and am very happy so far" Â Lets keep some perspective regarding Adreani cartridges....If the reaction of cmar143 is as above, then the quest for perfection.... though always fun and challenging, is not always so far removed from excellence. I will fit my cartridges Monday and report on my reactions as soon as possible after. I am very subjective and will not gloss for the sake of it. I have already fitted the Ohlin rear shock with spring rate set for my weight and I was pleased compared to the standard shock....but not as impressed as I was with the Ohlins on my Ducati and FJ1200. It is firm, but not that forgiving on bumps...at least the uncontrolled wallow of the original is gone. Lets see how it works in conjunction with the cartridges. Here in the Netherlands every route town or country is peppered with speed humps. My Buell with Showa front and rear covers them with controlled ease...even my '75 Z1 (with Konis) goes over without drama...but the standard MT-07 suspensionwas totally overwhelmed by the 'Test' ones I have near my house at 35mph. With the Ohlin the speed can be increased but the bike still wants to jump rather than flow. Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Fair point @bigtwin. Look forward to your report. Despite my criticisms, I did say that they'll be better than OEM.  Also consider wrapping your (open box) wrench in tape or your caps might end up like this. That was just one session with a wrench under no spring pressure - just to spin off the black insert to see what was underneath it. It was surprisingly tough to turn - it had no lube on the threads. A dab of lithium when putting it back together make a noticeable difference. I hope the the main hex for installing the cap fares better.    For those that are curious, here's what's inside.   Interesting choice and none of my tools (I have inter-changable tips) could reach. you'll need a long-nose  snap-ring pliers to reach it.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I don't tax the rear shock quite enough to feel it pogo much, though I have felt it. It's the whack it gives me going over frost heaves that I'm not fond of. Bigtwin, have you tried dialing down the damping on that Ohlins? Â Well, I've now thrown money at the problem as well. I specified "compliance" at the top of my want list. Should be interesting to see which kit shows up. Â Unless someone, heh, heh, tells me it's a really bad idea. I think I'm gonna run this 18.4 cSt fluid in the rebound side http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=27&pcid=18 and the 9.8 cSt http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=26&pcid=18 in the compression side. Â My workplace blocks your picts, pattonme - dang-it. I have read those caps are a bit thin though. Can only guess. Â Oh, I found the link where the guy swapped out for lighter fluid on the compression side. It was an FZ09. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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