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farmer67

Power Commander vs EJK?

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farmer67
I created a thread on here a week or so ago asking if exhaust performance is even noticeable. For the most part most people feel it is. 
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Regardless, I plan on adding a full exhaust to my bike (probably 2 brothers because I like the sound and look).
 
 
I can't get a good answer as to what "tuner" is best for the bike though... There seem to be very few posts about a power commander, but most everyone that has the EJK seems to be happy with it.
 
 
 
What about a Power Commander?[/span]
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Cruizin
Well, they are both great. But if u wanna make your own changes in the go without having to diwnload maps of go to a dyno, EJK is the way to go.
 
Their founder, mr dobeck founded and owned the company that owns powercommander. He invented the dynojet dynometer that every tuner uses. He then sold dynojet and founded dobeck performance and invented the EJK fuel controller. He has been doing and dyno work longer than anyone because his company invented it.
 
He considers his new product and company to be superior for the every day rider who isnt trying to race moto gp and doesnt plan doenloading maps just to adjust their fuel settings.
 
The ejk has simple and patended controls right on the unit, no maps needed.
 
And thats why I, owner owner of the forums, chose them to be our supporting vendor.
 
But, you are free to choose your own and pay more, play with uneccesary apps and make expensive trips to the dyno just to get smooth fueling.
 
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phicurious86
Just to echo Cruizin.
 
Power commander will give you quite a few more knobs to turn with air/fuel ratio settings. However, that comes at a price. You'll need to hook the power commander up to a computer any time you want to make those changes and making substantial changes as a noobie is not recommended (you'll be forced to use generic maps and then take the bike into a shop with a dyno for specific substantial changes). The install is also more involved than for the EJK.
 
EJK doesn't have as many knobs to turn, but it does still offer a significant degree of flexibility with respect to fueling. Best part is that you can easily make the changes your self, and never need to hook the bike up to an external device. Just pop the passenger seat and adjust some setting + or - . Pretty simple install, especially if you have another person handy to help hold the fuel tank while you hook up the EJK harness to the injectors.
 
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pantheraleo
I got two prices on doing the Power Commander on my FZ. One was 800 and one was 750. Both involved hours of Dyno time, tuning, more Dyno, etc.
 
I know one of the guys and his price wasn't out of line with the second quote I got. I know he would do it right, but 750 Vs. 225?
 
Easy choice. I'm tickled with my EJK. Smooth, better low end acceleration, and a more fun ride. This unit is a real value if you have an exhaust upgrade, IMHO.
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thomascrown
Power commander can control ignition timing. That alone is reason enough to go with pcv.

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GAZ
Powercommander doesn't factor in a load setting for hills.
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aeisan
Powercommander doesn't factor in a load setting for hills.
Isn't that what downshifting is for? 

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GAZ
Powercommander doesn't factor in a load setting for hills.
Isn't that what downshifting is for? 
The OP asked for a comparison of the two fuel solutions not a different way on how to ride his/her motorcycle. 

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aeisan
Isn't that what downshifting is for? 
The OP asked for a comparison of the two fuel solutions not a different way on how to ride his/her motorcycle.
Point taken.  However, the OP actually just asked which "tuner" is best, not for a comparison.  My point is that the load based vs Alpha-N debate is really moot.  It's two ways to approach a calculation that though different, are really not what matters if you are in the market for the EJK or the PCV, in my honest opinion.   
"Load" does not really matter when you are talking about fueling - the point of the fueling is to get the right amount of fuel pumped in to mix with the (essentially fixed) amount of air to make the ideal air-fuel ratio, to make the most power.  Let the motor do what the motor needs to do - make the most amount of power it can as efficiently as it can.  Let the rider do what the rider needs to do - pilot the bike and decide how much power is needed and when.  Again, I'm not saying the way the EJK calculates fuel is wrong - just a different way to skin the proverbial cat.  If I thought it was wrong, I would not have installed one on my own bike!  I just don't feel like it's a major selling point nor a huge advantage in technology over the PCV.  
 
What then, you may ask, is the real difference between the EJK and the PCV, in my opinion?  For most practical concerns it comes down to three things - price, ease of use and potential gains.  With that said, I'd also offer a third option for anyone looking into a fueling solution, which is a straight up custom flashing of the ECU.  So let's compare the three solutions based on the three previously mentioned categories:  
 
Price: This one is easy to compare.  In order of cheapest to highest cost, they go EJK, PCV, ECU flash.  
 
Ease of Use: In order of easiest to most complicated: EJK, PCV, ECU flash.  The ease of each has pretty much been discussed in previous posts.  To me, this is the single biggest selling point to be considered.  It all comes down to what you want out of the unit and how easy you want it to be used.  
 
Potential Gains: You will notice a direct correlation to potential gains vs ease of use. Highest potential gains in order of highest to lowest: ECU flash, PCV, EJK.
 
Here's an analogy for you all (who doesn't love a good analogy, right?!?)... It's like comparing an iPad to a full-blown, custom built gaming PC - do you want the best at the cost of having to do a LOT of tinkering or do you want something that "just works" and is simple to use? If you want simple, go with the EJK.  If you want the most out of your bike at a higher dollar and time cost, skip the PCV (in my honest opinion) and go for a full blown custom ECU flash.  
 
FULL DISCLAIMER:  I do own and use the EJK on my bike in a "stage 1" setup.  For me, it was the best value.  If I raced the bike, had further engine mods or even took it to the track much, the EJK would probably not have been my choice; but for what I need it works great.  
 
 
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aeisan
Sorry.. A couple quick comments after I read my last post...
 
I should note I include all the necessary dyno time for the ECU flash and the PCV in the "ease of use" category, as well as any necessary knowledge (which is really key to get the most out of each).
 
I should also note that for our bikes and a stage 1 setup, I've read it should not be expected to see much more in terms of gains for the PCV over the EJK. I don't know this first hand, but I have read reports stating as such.

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thomascrown
I don't see the difference between using someone's recommended settings for the Dobeck vs. uploading a pre-made map for the PCV. Unless you dyno tune the Dobeck on your own bike, you're "uploading a generic map" by turning screws.

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phicurious86
I don't see the difference between using someone's recommended settings for the Dobeck vs. uploading a pre-made map for the PCV. Unless you dyno tune the Dobeck on your own bike, you're "uploading a generic map" by turning screws.
If you just use the generic map, then sure, but you don't have to use the recommended settings. My bike didn't like the recommended settings for the cruising speed, so I bumped the fuel down a bit to see if that would help. It didn't, so I bumped the fuel up a bit from the recommended settings and it helped get rid of some popping. I could also mess around with settings for the acceleration and WoT fuelings, plus the activation rpms for each of these zones, to increase fuel economy a bit at the expense of a little performance, if I was so inclined (which I might be at some point in the future). To do that all I'd need to do is pop the passenger seat and press some buttons.
 
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synonyx
 
 
The PCV is by far the best option as it controls spark and has intuitive tuning software.
 
Making the argument that the EJK is easier cause you push a few buttons is pretty weak. Downloading maps vs. pushing buttons is the same thing IMO. I honestly think making a few clicks is easier. How hard is it to go on DynoJet's website, download a map and hit the "Send to PCV" button ?? Any tuner here locally won't touch the EJK as you can't tune it as detailed as you can with a PCV. Plenty of guys that have tuned the FZ have noted that the FZ engine loves more ignition timing. I have tuned mine for a "Performance tune" and a "MPG Tune" I added on a switch to my PCV to change it on the fly. I also think the quality of the harness and connectors was better on the PCV.

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aeisan
The ease of use is more than just sending a new generic map to the unit. As I mentioned above, as well as reiterated in another post this afternoon, there are many other threads on here about the differences in ease of use. I'm not going to go into it all again, but the differences is night and day for anyone thinking of going beyond just loading a generic tune.
 
Ease of use does not make the EJK "better" by any means, but to many out there it is most certainly a factor to consider.
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