Wrong fork bushings installed at factory - heavy wear ensues

[rick]

Well, it's only a black hole if the 2 (out of 3 total) that have been looked at are the only 2 and don't represent 2 out of every 3.
 
Time will tell.
 
 
 
 

[hippiebikerchick]

Any idea when Yamaha will get back to us with more info regarding the bushing problem?
 
I just want a general idea, like 1 week, 1 month, two months?

[Guest unknown]

No idea, I'd imagine they would release some more details in a month or two, maybe issue a recall in 6 months? Honestly I'm just sptiballing so take those times with a very small grain of salt.

[fooschnickens]

Until they start getting more reports from customers in the wild of the issue along with the offending bushings to inspect we may as well wait until the national deficit is balanced before hearing anything back from Yamaha. We're basically in a holding pattern until HQ is able to figure out more about the problem than they already have.

[pattonme]

added pic to first post of correct bushing and gap.

[pattonme]

Nobody feel too bad. Kawasaki's EX650 series has the same problem. Took a 2012 bike apart with ~5000 miles on it. Kayaba you have a wee problem ...
 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/180639/2013%20ex650-left.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/180639/2013%20ex650-right.jpg
 
But at least Kawasaki paid the extra $2 to have the the rebound holes drilled. Or this was before Kayaba decided to cut corners and not tell anybody.

[catfish]

I finally got my forks apart to install the Traxxion fork kit. Opened everything up and here's some photos:
 

Mileage
 
 

Forks apart
 
 

OEM lower bushing
 
 

Lower bushing from All-Balls 38-6096 Fork Bushing Kit
 
OEM bushing has too-large gap, but my 2000 miles have not worn the bushing out yet.
 
Please forward this info to your Yamaha contact. Have them contact me (motocatfish@gmail.com) & I can provide them with my VIN #.
 
 
Catfish ...
 
 
 
 
 

[Guest unknown]

Thanks for the pics catfish. I am pm'ing you now.

[sorkyah]

i have more than 8k on my bike and am on the bike for 50+ miles a day. what would be symptoms of this issue pattonme? what should i be on the lookout for as far as signs the bushing has worn more than acceptable? Is there something specific i would notice during braking/cornering/heavy accel or decel? Cars i can diag, but bikes are out of my scope. I just need to know what im looking for before i can attempt to diag.

[bmwpowere36m3]

i have more than 8k on my bike and am on the bike for 50+ miles a day. what would be symptoms of this issue pattonme? what should i be on the lookout for as far as signs the bushing has worn more than acceptable?

 
 
Like Pattonme mentioned you'd notice excessive play and maybe clunking... However I'd wager that no one would notice it as is happens slowly over time.
 
By the time you notice it, likely the bushings are severely worn and quite possibly the fork lowers...
 
Forks need to be serviced periodically, including fluid changes, seal and bushing replacements. If you have the know-how, stripping the forks down is cake... especially damper-rod ones.
 
So either you DIY and all it costs you is some fork fluid, maybe bushings (if their the wrong ones or worn) and seals. Or you pay someone to service your forks, usually around $100 at a suspension shop not including materials. A perfect time would be when you need a fluid change (after a year or two of riding). Or you wait till you notice symptoms (not likely) or seals start leaking and then deal with it.
 
OR you wait to see if Yamaha is going to do something...

[pattonme]

@catfish, wipe the original bushing down and hold it up to some good lighting and check all the way around, carefully. I just did @reckless' forks with 700 miles and there were signs of abnormal (about the size of 6mm circle, so not yet advanced) wear. Clearly Kayaba's quality control has issues. One of his legs has a defect in the bore and when I put the correct bushing in, it hit a noticeable tight spot near the bottom. It was enough to cant the tube to rub on the spring seat. After a several attempts I had to give up and use the wrong bushing size. His other fork leg was perfectly fine.

[pattonme]

> stripping the forks down is cake... especially damper-rod ones.
 
With an impact wrench. I've done 3 FZ07 now and all were much, much worse to get that blasted bolt out than anything else I've worked on. The tolerances on the bolt and the damper rod threads is so bad you can't even get past 1 or 2 turns by hand.
 
> Or you wait till you notice symptoms
 
You're going to need 20K+ miles to get to that point. Thankfully it's not an immediate or overt safety issue in the near term.

[bmwpowere36m3]

> stripping the forks down is cake... especially damper-rod ones. 
With an impact wrench. I've done 3 FZ07 now and all were much, much worse to get that blasted bolt out than anything else I've worked on. The tolerances on the bolt and the damper rod threads is so bad you can't even get past 1 or 2 turns by hand.

 
 
Taking it apart or putting together? I always use my Snap-On MG air impact, has never failed me... I don't mess around with damper rod holders.

[pattonme]

taking it apart. the SV/EX/GSXR forks a quick blip and the bolt lets go and comes out. I can do it manually just my 'snapping' the wrench in most cases too. The FZ, I have to compress the fork a righteous amount and it takes a solid 3 seconds with the impact for it to unthread. I generally re-thread the bolt to the damper rod just to keep the parts together and I can't thread it by hand. I have to put the rod in a vise and use a tool to screw it back in. All the other damper rods, thread just peachy.

[bmwpowere36m3]

taking it apart. the SV/EX/GSXR forks a quick blip and the bolt lets go and comes out. I can do it manually just my 'snapping' the wrench in most cases too. The FZ, I have to compress the fork a righteous amount and it takes a solid 3 seconds with the impact for it to unthread. I generally re-thread the bolt to the damper rod just to keep the parts together and I can't thread it by hand. I have to put the rod in a vise and use a tool to screw it back in. All the other damper rods, thread just peachy.

 
 
Yeah, my Showa 48 mm forks (dirt bike) are like that... they need a SOLID few rapps with the impact to get the base valve/bolt out. It was thread-locked from the factory and torqued to 70 ft-lbs.
 
Are there remnants of factory-applied thread locker on the bolt, you know the pre-applied kind?

[howworkclutch]

taking it apart. the SV/EX/GSXR forks a quick blip and the bolt lets go and comes out. I can do it manually just my 'snapping' the wrench in most cases too. The FZ, I have to compress the fork a righteous amount and it takes a solid 3 seconds with the impact for it to unthread. I generally re-thread the bolt to the damper rod just to keep the parts together and I can't thread it by hand. I have to put the rod in a vise and use a tool to screw it back in. All the other damper rods, thread just peachy.

 
 
I've never tore a front end down so I've no idea what part you guys are talking about. But I'm curious if you guys are removing those slowly to avoid galling. Maybe it doesn't matter. A friend is an aircraft mechanic and meticulous about his work. He warns against using impact wrenches to spin nuts/bolts because it causes galling and weakens fasteners.
 
It sounds like the two parts aren't spec'd properly. I would worry about that since there are other mixups in the front end.

[rick]

taking it apart. the SV/EX/GSXR forks a quick blip and the bolt lets go and comes out. I can do it manually just my 'snapping' the wrench in most cases too. The FZ, I have to compress the fork a righteous amount and it takes a solid 3 seconds with the impact for it to unthread. I generally re-thread the bolt to the damper rod just to keep the parts together and I can't thread it by hand. I have to put the rod in a vise and use a tool to screw it back in. All the other damper rods, thread just peachy.

I've never tore a front end down so I've no idea what part you guys are talking about. But I'm curious if you guys are removing those slowly to avoid galling. Maybe it doesn't matter. A friend is an aircraft mechanic and meticulous about his work. He warns against using impact wrenches to spin nuts/bolts because it causes galling and weakens fasteners.
 
It sounds like the two parts aren't spec'd properly. I would worry about that since there are other mixups in the front end.
 
 
I've done damage to bolts with an air impacter by letting them spin as well. Unfortunately, sometimes there's no other choice.
 
in this case the bolt that goes up thru the bottom of the fork slider and screw into the damper rod sounds like it's tight and the threads were not cut well. W/o reaching way done into the tube to hold that damper from turning (special tool of course) the other choice is an impact wrench or at least an impact driver set to slow speed.
 
Think If mine feel the same, when I get around to this, I'll take tap and die to the threads when it's apart. 

 

[pattonme]

@rick,
> reaching way done into the tube to hold that damper from turning (special tool of course)
 
problem is there is nothing to grab with any special tool. There's no lip or notch in the damper rod, just the slippery, oil-covered ID. I have a piece of wooden dowel that I use and pound it in with a hammer. Put the wood in a vise and then use an impact. That's how I got the first FZ07 apart. I tried manual wrench in that setup too, it just slips. The impact turns fast enough to get the job done.

[bmwpowere36m3]

taking it apart. the SV/EX/GSXR forks a quick blip and the bolt lets go and comes out. I can do it manually just my 'snapping' the wrench in most cases too. The FZ, I have to compress the fork a righteous amount and it takes a solid 3 seconds with the impact for it to unthread. I generally re-thread the bolt to the damper rod just to keep the parts together and I can't thread it by hand. I have to put the rod in a vise and use a tool to screw it back in. All the other damper rods, thread just peachy.

I've never tore a front end down so I've no idea what part you guys are talking about. But I'm curious if you guys are removing those slowly to avoid galling. Maybe it doesn't matter. A friend is an aircraft mechanic and meticulous about his work. He warns against using impact wrenches to spin nuts/bolts because it causes galling and weakens fasteners.
 
It sounds like the two parts aren't spec'd properly. I would worry about that since there are other mixups in the front end.

There is a bolt that goes thru the fork lower and secures the inner cartridge/damper assembly... typically if you loosen the bolt by hand (ratchet), it'll loosen slightly.... but then the inner cartridge/damper assembly will start spinning (preventing you from further loosening the bolt).  So they sell specialty holders, that slide down into the fork and hold the inner assembly so you can loosen the bolt fully.
If you work on various forks, you'll need various holders and that can add up... quick.  A trick used by many, is you simply use an impact gun on the lower bolt/valve assembly to quickly loosen it without the need for a damper holder.
Aircraft mechanics work around a lot of aluminum components... so galling is an issue regardless of using an impact or not.  In the wrong hands, an impact can do a lot of damage.
 

[rick]

@rick, > reaching way done into the tube to hold that damper from turning (special tool of course)
 
problem is there is nothing to grab with any special tool. There's no lip or notch in the damper rod, just the slippery, oil-covered ID. I have a piece of wooden dowel that I use and pound it in with a hammer. Put the wood in a vise and then use an impact. That's how I got the first FZ07 apart. I tried manual wrench in that setup too, it just slips. The impact turns fast enough to get the job done.

I was just in the manual looking to see what was necessary to get that thing apart. Found it well cheaper than this, but it's what that factory tool looks like according to the service manual - a tapered square at the end of a 3/8" drive . . http://www.braapshop.com/eshopprod_cat_8950-64911-65021-65025_product_1671996.DENNIS_STUBBLEFIELD_SALES_INNE.htm 
This seems to be a fairly universal tool used on, Kaws as well - there's a surprise. Just need a really long extension. 
 
So yer saying that tool will be useless as there's not a hole in the end of the rod for it to mate with? 
 
I was thinking of just grinding those tapers on a 1/2" steel rod and drilling a cross hole to make a T handle for the other end. But if that's pointless, ....
 
I do have an air impacter (old world, polished aluminum, IR, 550 ft-lbs of workhorse). Just have to do it in bursts so as to avoid the full speed spin - 8k RPM iirc.
 
Might use a similar wood dowel to get the shape. So, good tip. 

[pattonme]

well sheet @rick your google-foo is better than mine. That should work. The 4 edges will dig into the damper rod wall enough to slow down it's tendency to spin. Normally such things aren't needed. Just put some pressure on the rod with the spring and you can overcome any loc-tite that might be in use. The bolt and damper rod are both steel so an impact isn't going to do either any damage. It's just that the threads are not cut correctly. I expect they're using the wrong tap (D1 instead of D5) or the steel in the damper rod flexes enough that the tap doesn't cut like it should. If I buy such a tool I'll grind some flats into the rounded part and stick it into my square aluminum tubing that I use to hold ZX6F cartridge bodies. Or buy a frickin' long extension.

[rick]

I found one 10 bucks cheaper last night at home. I had the advantage of knowing the Yamaha part number, so it didn't take long to find. Once I have the proper search terminology in my head, stand back and watch me google like a 20 year old, lol.
 
I'll post the link for the 20 buck version this evening.

[pattonme]

too slow old man.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005SUU0Y8 - $18
 

[rick]

too slow old man. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005SUU0Y8 - $18

heehee.  
Well that's a bite. The same exact tool made by the same company (Pit Posse) and maybe even sold by the same place for 2 bucks less? Only difference - it's says Kawasaki on the description. wtf?
 
Sorry, senior moment last nite and forgot to look. I was having too much fun putting my new seat bits on. 
 
Anyway, good find. Just added it to the wish list. 

[catfish]

too slow old man. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005SUU0Y8 - $18

Yes, I wish I had THAT tool when I took mine apart!!!
 
There must have been a 1/2-inch length of serious thread sealant on the damper bolt. My various damper & cartridge holders did not work. The damper just spun too. Borrowed a BIGGER air compressor to use my old air impact wrench, and finally got 'em out. What a PAIN!!!
 
That pronged holder above looks like a new tool I should get. Thanks for the links gentlemen!
 
Obtw, the Traxxion Fork Kit works WELL with my dialed-in Penske! YaHOO, she's ready for track days!!! :-)
 
ObtwII, the Yamaha rep got my input & sent a UPS shipping label for the old bushings. They are still collecting data to understand what's going on.
 
 
Catfish ...