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Wrong fork bushings installed at factory - heavy wear ensues


pattonme

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1 hour ago, noodles said:

I asked this question a long time ago and didn't get an answer; what exactly do I need to do to replace the bushings and also the oil/dust seals?

Looks like I need:

  • 4EB-W003B-00-000 - OEM fork dust/oil seals kit
  • AllBalls 38-6096 - "wrong" kit with the "right" sized lower bushings - but do the upper bushings fit? Or the snap rings/O rings etc?
  • Seal driver kit
  • Damper tube holder tool and/or broom handle

I wanted to replace those bushings and while I'm at it, put in better springs and/or GVE

I have no familiarity with the 38-6096 kit. AllBalls lists the 38-3095 kit as the correct bushing kit for the FZ-07. Of the 38-3095 kit, the upper bushings are the only item I had issues with. Though I'd still use OEM for all but the lower bushings from my side by side comparison of the other parts. 

I personally feel the AllBalls kits are too "generic" for the FZ-07 in general considering the same kit is designed to fit numerous models from multiple manufacturers. This makes them less than precise (for the FZ-07) which makes installation on the FZ-07 more difficult (if not impossible in the case of the upper bushing and seals from the AllBalls seal kit)  than it needs to be. The OEM Yamaha parts installed with much less effort and have a more precise fit.

To replace the lower bushing the forks need to be completely disassembled.

First off I would not consider a fork rebuild a "beginners" project. It's not rocket science either but you do need a fair amount of experience wrenching and have a decent set of tools to accomplish the task IMO. If at all possible I'd get someone with experience doing this type of job to help you through it. If you have to force anything, you're most likely doing something wrong.

After fork rebuilds on two different FZ-07s, you'll find a couple thoughts for someone doing it for the first time below:

I'd watch some of the YouTube videos available online to follow the process, and print out the shop manual's schematics to make sure no parts are missed during re-assembly and to make sure it's put back together in the proper order. I suggest only taking apart one leg at a time. 

During fork removal, loosen the  top caps  AFTER loosening the top pinch bolt but BEFORE loosening the bottom pinch bolts. This will make getting the caps off later a lot easier.

You'll need a long reach 8?mm hex drive socket to remove the damper rod bolt. I made my own using a Hex wrench from a cheap set, that I cut the long leg off of, and I inserted the cut off long leg into my regular 8?mm socket that I used on an air impact wrench. For disassembly I zipped the bolt out in one go to lessen the likelihood of the damper rod free spinning since I didn't have the specialty tool I used only hand tools to reinstall the bolts to lessen the likelihood of cross-threading.

I used a flat tip punch to ease the upper bushing down into it's recess using light taps working my way around to seat the upper bushing. Light taps are needed so as not to damage the edge of the upper bushing or nick the chrome of the upper leg or the soft aluminum of the lower leg as well. You will want to makes sure that it's fully seated if you want the bushing, washer, seal, C-clip and boot stack to all fit properly.

Too bad you don't live closer, I'd be happy to help you get it done.

 


 

 

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DewMan
 
Just shut up and ride.

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@DewMan so you'd get the whole all balls kit just to get the lower bushing out of it? At that point I'd just order the '97 GSXR bushing (I'd have to look up exactly what it was again) from the same OEM parts website.

As far as getting the job done, I feel that if I can adjust the valves and rebuild my brake calipers, this doesn't sound too hard. As always I'd just have to take my time. Probably a good winter project now that I've got a garage to keep my machine in. 

Thank you! 

his face seems pulled and tense
like he's riding on a motorbike in the strongest winds

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1 hour ago, noodles said:

@DewMan so you'd get the whole all balls kit just to get the lower bushing out of it? At that point I'd just order the '97 GSXR bushing (I'd have to look up exactly what it was again) from the same OEM parts website.

As far as getting the job done, I feel that if I can adjust the valves and rebuild my brake calipers, this doesn't sound too hard. As always I'd just have to take my time. Probably a good winter project now that I've got a garage to keep my machine in. 

Thank you! 

I can't say I'd buy the whole kit just for the lower bushings if you can find known quality ones elsewhere. I got mine from @pattonme  who sold me the bushings alone. But the other set of forks I did we attempted to use the AllBalls kit since he had it already.

If you have the experience and feel comfortable.. go for it.  We're here if you have any questions. 

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DewMan
 
Just shut up and ride.

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13 hours ago, DewMan said:

If you have the experience and feel comfortable.. go for it.  We're here if you have any questions. 

Thanks! Seems like a good opportunity for another tech tip if I don't demolish my forks in the process 😉

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his face seems pulled and tense
like he's riding on a motorbike in the strongest winds

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  • 2 months later...
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On 8/28/2019 at 6:10 PM, DewMan said:

AllBalls 38-6096 - "wrong" kit with the "right" sized lower bushings - but do the upper bushings fit? Or the snap rings/O rings etc?

I thought for sure @pattonme said the P# 38-6069 was the correct kit with the correct bushings?

You can buy an All Balls bushing kit (38-6095 which includes a lot of stuff) *BUT* it has the WRONG lower bushing. You want to buy the 95-97 ZX6F or 98 Yam XV650 V-star kit (38-6096). Yes, the upper bushing is the same part# as the one found in -6095.

Did I miss something? @noodles I bought the P# 38-6069 from all balls a while back thinking it was the correct one without the oil and dust seals. I'm about to order them from ?? zilla OEM seals as its not favorable riding conditions and I want to do the front first.

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On 4/6/2015 at 10:57 AM, pattonme said:

I just took apart a <3000 mile set of forks and the lower bushings are already heavily worn. Kayaba has made this mistake before (EX650 I believe) by using the wrong bushing. The correct one is from a ZX6F or SV650 Gen2.
 
You can buy an All Balls bushing kit (38-6095 which includes a lot of stuff) *BUT* it has the WRONG lower bushing. You want to buy the 95-97 ZX6F or 98 Yam XV650 V-star kit (38-6096). Yes, the upper bushing is the same part# as the one found in -6095.
 
Yes, you CAN buy the bushings individually for $5.50+ship from All Balls but it might be best to do a group-buy since they don't really want to. They want to sell kits, not individual parts.
 
If you have more than 5000 miles on your bike, get it replaced as soon as you can.
Note how the Teflon has been completely worn off and the copper is showing.
 
worn: 20150406_134730.jpg
 
new: 20150406_134747.jpg
 
 
Click the link for picture. I'm guessing the original is too big for the forum to allow it's inclusion...
 
The diameter of the bushing seat is 39.98mm. The OD of the WRONG bushing is 41.1mm. The bushing itself is 1mm thick. When installed you get a absolutely massive gap of ~5mm between the ends of the bushing.
 
The correct bushing has an OD of 42mm. When installed the gap is ~1mm.
20150414_001137.jpg
 
 

Here's the OP, its in paragraph 2.

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  • 1 month later...
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7D9338B2-4F83-4A66-B489-BE23203C5BA4.jpeg

These are the lower bushings/bushes ^^^^ Left is left fork.Centre is OEM, Right nis right fork.

As you can see the left and right are stripped of their coating to different degrees of damage. The left side more so as you can see the reflection from the dirty paper towel. I got the allballs 30-6069 and I measured the gap on the OEM bush while seated at 5mm, replaced with the allballs bush 1.5mm @pattonme was correct. The upper bushings were fine, I replaced the anyway.

Below you can see a discoloration at the bottom of the stanchion, it was on both. I don't know if it means anything!, but it was strange to see. If anyone could chime in on what the discoloration is that would be cool, I'm just curious as I'd imagine it's probably heat related, but I don't really Know.

B5758804-985C-4613-B316-8A7F403D6DA7.jpeg

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I've seen several stanchions (all of them,actually) with that change in color. I don't think it's actually discoloration, per se, and definitely not heat related. As many times as I've seen that, and it's always the part of the fork that is internal of the slider, I believe it is just where the hard chrome coating is not continued all the way down the stanchion. Perhaps to maintain clearances where the lower bushing snaps in place?  I could be dead wrong, just my observations/thoughts through the years. 

 

BTW, how many miles on your original bushing there?

Edited by shinyribs
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6 minutes ago, shinyribs said:

BTW, how many miles on your original bushing there?

Too many... @shinyribsto be exact 26,000 miles on the odometer right now on a '15. I bought it in february 2017 with 2,000 on the odometer. I wasn't noticing anything that would suggest a problem other than the usual front end is trash, put a Ohlins shock on it and it helped.  I then started looking into  front suspension upgrades and stumbled on this thread and decided that I should do a fork oil, bushings, seal change,  I had them in the garage for about a month and then both seals went so, I just did it without trying to explore much as I'm going down the road of cartridges soon. I just want to be able to  ride it before I leave town for the last rideable days in this neck of the woods. I also knew it was something I had to address before I drop in cartridges, it was very insightful and humbling at the same time. (shame on me for not doing it earlier) I think I have pics of the upper bushes on my phone, if I do I'll put them up. They weren't showing any distress, at least to my limited knowledge anyway.

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Thanks for that. I just hit 17k miles, so your mileage makes me feel a little better. My bike needs a good strip down/ clean up/ regrease, so I may just add a thorough fork service in to it as well. 

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10 hours ago, shinyribs said:

My bike needs a good strip down/ clean up/ regrease,

I'll be doing the rear next, swingarm and all that and adding the AP link, adjusting shock to suit. I really need to build myself a bench, but space is limited. 

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Thanks for the updates.

This thread is a bit scattered to read, is there anyone who can make a clear and concise recomendation for which parts to buy to address the lower bushing issue?

It sounds like to do the job properly you'd want to buy two kits - with one of them being the "correct" kit for the fz07 and another being whatever kit includes the actually correct lower bushing.

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  • 3 months later...
copamundial
On 12/22/2019 at 8:03 PM, fzar said:

<snip>
I got the allballs 30-6069 and I measured the gap on the OEM bush while seated at 5mm, replaced with the allballs bush 1.5mm @pattonme was correct. The upper bushings were fine, I replaced the anyway.

</snip>

I am a time traveler.  For those of you who posted in this thread earlier I have come from the future.  To those of you reading this for the first time, I have come from the past.

My mission is to help point out that I believe @fzar had a typo above (highlighted by me):

The part number @pattonme referenced (quoted by fzar right above) is  38-6096  not 30-6069.

All Balls Racing does not have a part number 30-6069, and save yourself the embarrassing search history as “All Balls” plus anything with the number “69” in it will return a lot of gay porn sites.  These are not the type of forks you’re looking for.

My work here is done.

Edited by copamundial
Un-ironic typo
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  • Haha 3

2015 FZ-07 White: Penske 8900E shock & spring, Spiegler Stainless brake lines, Woodcraft clip-ons, engine guards and frame sliders.

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10 hours ago, copamundial said:

I am a time traveler.  For those of you who posted in this thread earlier I have come from the future.  To those of you reading this for the first time, I have come from the past.

My mission is to help point out that I believe @fzar had a typo above (highlighted by me):

The part number @pattonme referenced (quoted by fzar right above) is  38-6096  not 30-6069.

All Balls Racing does not have a part number 30-6069, and save yourself the embarrassing search history as “All Balls” plus anything with the number “69” in it will return a lot of gay porn sites.  These are not the type of forks you’re looking for.

My work here is done.

Yes you are right I had a typo in there: here’s my package from All Balls

B1283D04-745E-4419-AFAF-F5D7CB5C661A.jpeg

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  • 3 months later...

I recently rebuilt my forks to install Gold Valve Emulators.  While I was at it I replaced the lower slide bushing (AKA inner tube bushing), oil seal and dust seals.  At 12k miles, my Lower bushings were worn and my fork oil looked terrible.  My upper (outer tube) bushings were in good shape so I didn't replace these.

I replaced with Yamaha OEM parts

-1x Fork Seal Kit (oil seals and dust covers) - 4EB-W003B-00-00  

-2x Lower (inner tube) bushing - 4FM-23171-40-00

The lower bushings listed above are for the V-Star 650 (also MT-09 and a bunch of other bikes) and they are a perfect fit with a narrower gap than the stock FZ-07 part (see my picture).  There's definitely a problem with the stock bushings and I'm glad @pattonme was able to share a solution!

 

Lower Bushing.jpg

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  • 2 years later...
On 7/30/2020 at 2:33 PM, clinical said:

I recently rebuilt my forks to install Gold Valve Emulators.  While I was at it I replaced the lower slide bushing (AKA inner tube bushing), oil seal and dust seals.  At 12k miles, my Lower bushings were worn and my fork oil looked terrible.  My upper (outer tube) bushings were in good shape so I didn't replace these.

I replaced with Yamaha OEM parts

-1x Fork Seal Kit (oil seals and dust covers) - 4EB-W003B-00-00  

-2x Lower (inner tube) bushing - 4FM-23171-40-00

The lower bushings listed above are for the V-Star 650 (also MT-09 and a bunch of other bikes) and they are a perfect fit with a narrower gap than the stock FZ-07 part (see my picture).  There's definitely a problem with the stock bushings and I'm glad @pattonme was able to share a solution!

 

Lower Bushing.jpg

Is your bike first gen?

After cross referencing part #'s, it seems Yamaha has indeed replaced the part number for the outer fork tubes.  This new part is utilized for the 2nd gen MT-07's.  The inner tube (stanchions),  inner and outer bushings being the same across all generations.  What could they have changed?  Fender, brake bosses?  Perhaps changing I.D. to address this premature bushing wear issue.  All speculation of course, without actual measurements between 1st and 2nd gen outer fork tubes.

I'm not aware of this issue occurring with the 2nd gen forks.  Or is this ongoing? 

I have the 2nd gen MT, with only 4XXX km on the odometer, and I'll soon upgrade the forks with the Traxxion AR-25 damper rod kit.  Will be first time servicing these forks.  Very curious of the bushings condition.  Would be difficult to take measurement of I.D. without the proper tool.  Any suggestions?     

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@sweetscience it's a first gen bike ('15).  I doubt they made significant changes to the outer fork tubes (aside from aesthetic) and certainly not the ID, as these are essentially standard diameters.  Irrespective, the problem really is with the bushings and stanchions.  If you are going to do work on the forks, I recommend that you buy bushings.  If you disassemble the forks and see you need to change the bushings, it's going to be a pain to wait on the parts to come.  Please do update us how your newer bike's bushings are wearing.  I doubt Yamaha fixed the issue, but I think we'd all like to know.  Cheers.

Edited by clinical
typos
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  • 4 weeks later...
sweetscience

Left fork inner bushing at 4,235 km. 

672611208_PXL_20220930_181201238.MP3.thumb.jpg.fb63a32a1ddc6829fde4333bbb931243.jpg

Below is the only visible wear of the right fork inner bushing. The common area close to the gap edge showed no wear.   

423164731_PXL_20221001_1400474682.thumb.jpg.4d2c00730580b2833080322fed0fe81d.jpg 

These bushings have been replaced with the narrow gap Yamaha OEM bushing (V-Star 650) as I upgraded the front suspension.

 

 

 

 

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  • 5 months later...

Lower bushings from my gen 2 MT07, lower bushings replaced at 8,000 mi with one from the V-star.

20230322_183146.jpg

Edited by tomlichu
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