pattonme Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Looks like it pays to go to the source: 1. http://www.matrisdampers.com/catalog/category/13.html (spring+damper kit; $220@PJ) 2. http://www.matrisdampers.com/catalog/category/16.html ('GVE' kit; $520@PJ) 3. http://www.matrisdampers.com/catalog/category/28.html (spring kit; ) 4. http://www.matrisdampers.com/catalog/category/15.html (FZ09, probably no FZ07 application. $950@PJ) Near as I can guess the blogger bought item No.2 expecting (per the wrong picture on PJ's site) to get No.4. I expect PJ's webmaster oops'd and re-cycled the picture from the FZ09 kit. $950 for complete fork guts replacement is in-line with offerings from Traxxion et. al. Per http://www.matrisdampers.com/catalog/category/34.html there is no No.4 application for the FZ07 and I doubt that will change anytime soon. Partly because of the (albeit minor) engineering needed, but more so because FZ07 owners are a cost-conscience lot and sport-bike grade, fully adjustable suspension is perceived as being out of character. The $520 FZ07 kit on PJ's site should have been this picture (or as indicated above from matrisdampers.com) Carpimoto lists it here: http://www.carpimoto.it/en-LK/43951_FY125SE-Matris-Fork-Cartridge-Kit-for-Yamaha-MT-07-.htm At Euro 370 = $400 MSRP or per Carpimoto discount it should cost ~E300=$322 which is in line with expectations ($150 for fancier GVE-like emulators, $100 springs, $100 for caps). You'll have to ask PJ why the disparity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 So, you are at the mercy of Matris getting the damping and spring rate right for your style of riding and weight. From what I read, Matris ( as well other suspension biggies) tends more toward the stiffer side of the scale. You can always have a tuner examine the shim stack and modify it. It would be very silly to design something that didn't make accommodation for end-user changes. I did some napkin math (I checked it 3 times, honest!) and the surface area of their 36mm piston has roughly 5x the valve area of a 20mm piston as used in many sport bike forks. Factoring in the different fluid displacements for the same amount of travel - 2.6x that of 20mm cartridge system, you end up with right on 1/2 the flow rate (per mm^2) of a 20mm system. However, if anyone wants me to evaluate what Matris shipped on their piston-based GVEs, I'll have to do some runs of a neat fluid dynamics calculator to figure out how their shim stack and resulting curve compares to mine, or Traxxion's etc. But back to springs. Yes Traxxion et. al. error on the stiff side in my experience. If you live in Washington County PA aka crater city (just kidding @rick, I lived in Pittsburgh for 4 years. actually kinda miss it) then choosing 1-1.5 rate softer is fine. You can work around too stiff (within reason) but too soft, and the remedies become more of a compromise. > lighter oil than they send and a couple less lines of preload and hope that doesn't result in too much sag and bounce. Lighter oil will cause more bounce or at least oscillation. Sounds like you want the compression full soft and decent control over rebound. You can spend a lot of time tuning GVEs and Matris' solution. How much effort do you want to put into it? How picky do you want to get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Dang, yer right. A google search of that FY125SE shows too many times that the PJS pict must be wrong! Sheesh. That'll teach us, lol. W/o all this fuss you've created (just kidding) over those knackered bushings, ignorance would have been bliss in my universe concerning the front end of this bike. I'll likely spend money on the back 1st. Ironic that I'll spend more time on the front. Oh man, I went down a road last weekend that was in such bad shape ( we had one heck of a nasty winter), I was wishing I was back on that old R90 with 8" of front travel and 5" in back. That bike saw some dirt trails in its day. BTW, those old R bikes did not have bushings in the forks. The stanchions rode right in the alloy sliders. Miss the Burgh? - well of course. My job of 15 years took me to Colorado 25 years ago. A week before I hit the road west, at a party, someone I did not know told me I'd be back. 2 years later, I was! Cue the music from Close Encounters of the 3rd variety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmar143 Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Thanks for doing all that homework pattonme and I apologize because even though I knew the "cartridge kit" was not rebound and compression adjustable I thought it was what the picture showed on the website. I talked to them on the phone before I ordered in and they confirmed that it was as pictured...a drop in cartridge until they got theyre first shipment this week and saw otherwise. They cancelled the order for me and I decided to try another fork kit that is fully adjustable from Italy here. https://www.omniaracing.net/en/andreani-adjustabale-hydraulic-cartridge-kit-for-fork-yamaha-2014-p-19820.html Hopefully this one turns out to be a winner. The price on theyre website is much higher then Carpimoto from what they said because they cant compete with the exchange rate in Italy. I guess it makes it worthwhile to get parts shipped from there for only $40 and get a better deal and higher end parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulibiker Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Thanks for doing all that homework pattonme and I apologize because even though I knew the "cartridge kit" was not rebound and compression adjustable I thought it was what the picture showed on the website. I talked to them on the phone before I ordered in and they confirmed that it was as pictured...a drop in cartridge until they got theyre first shipment this week and saw otherwise. They cancelled the order for me and I decided to try another fork kit that is fully adjustable from Italy here. https://www.omniaracing.net/en/andreani-adjustabale-hydraulic-cartridge-kit-for-fork-yamaha-2014-p-19820.html Hopefully this one turns out to be a winner. The price on theyre website is much higher then Carpimoto from what they said because they cant compete with the exchange rate in Italy. I guess it makes it worthwhile to get parts shipped from there for only $40 and get a better deal and higher end parts. That's a killer price................even better if you order both front & rear. Been waiting for someone to order from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Thanks for doing all that homework pattonme and I apologize because even though I knew the "cartridge kit" was not rebound and compression adjustable I thought it was what the picture showed on the website. I talked to them on the phone before I ordered in and they confirmed that it was as pictured...a drop in cartridge until they got theyre first shipment this week and saw otherwise. They cancelled the order for me and I decided to try another fork kit that is fully adjustable from Italy here. https://www.omniaracing.net/en/andreani-adjustabale-hydraulic-cartridge-kit-for-fork-yamaha-2014-p-19820.html Hopefully this one turns out to be a winner. The price on theyre website is much higher then Carpimoto from what they said because they cant compete with the exchange rate in Italy. I guess it makes it worthwhile to get parts shipped from there for only $40 and get a better deal and higher end parts. That's a killer price................even better if you order both front & rear. Been waiting for someone to order from them. I don't know if it's another case of a wrong picture, but the cartridge in the pict showing the Ohlins shock is different. Notably, where the spring is stopped. There appears to be a long, narrow, spacer between the cap and the spring (all very odd looking, imo) on cartridge that's shown alone. More like I would expect to see, that spacer is gone in the pict in the shock + cartridge pict. Again, it could just be a misleading picture (or 2). But maybe the super looking combined deal is cause that cartridge is lacking somehow. There is a US distributor. Might be worth an email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmar143 Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 I have an email into them asking that question and they are very good about responding even in Italy. I saw the difference before I placed the order but figured that they were the same because after all how many fork cartridges could they have for this bike? It's not like it's a race bike or something they would make variants of...especially with full adjustability on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 So anybody try the Matris Fork Kit FSE? Reviews? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762mm Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Noob question, I want to change the fork springs and came across this kit, do I just dump the piston in there after removing the old spring? or do I need to remove something more from the fork? In short do I just put in the piston , add oil, pump the fork to remove air and then fill to the correct amount oil? Also Im like 240 with gear would 10 oil be good or go for thicker 20 oil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmacas87 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Noob question, I want to change the fork springs and came across this kit, do I just dump the piston in there after removing the old spring? or do I need to remove something more from the fork? In short do I just put in the piston , add oil, pump the fork to remove air and then fill to the correct amount oil? Also Im like 240 with gear would 10 oil be good or go for thicker 20 oil? You would need to remove everything stock inside the forks. That means the springs spacers and damper rod needs to all come out. You don't "have" to split the forks, but as posted frequently around here the stock fork bushing should be replaced with a properly sized one for proper wear. http://fz07.org/thread/2223/wrong-bushings-installed-factory-ensues From there the matris kit is a "drop in", in that it does basically just replace the stock components without any permanent modifications. Read here regarding forum vendor forks by Matt service for a proper matris setup http://fz07.org/thread/4603/matris-f15-service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 In case after re-reading all these posts it's not clear, Matris does in fact sell a full-tilt 4-piston cartridge system for the FZ07 called the F15K. http://www.matrisdampers.com/en/prodotto/products/f15k/http://www.matrisdampers.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Yamaha-MT-07-14-web.pdf here's another forum thread on the subject: http://fz07.org/thread/3210/new-matris-f15-cartridge-thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762mm Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 In case after re-reading all these posts it's not clear, Matris does in fact sell a full-tilt 4-piston cartridge system for the FZ07 called the F15K. http://www.matrisdampers.com/en/prodotto/products/f15k/http://www.matrisdampers.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Yamaha-MT-07-14-web.pdf here's another forum thread on the subject: http://fz07.org/thread/3210/new-matris-f15-cartridge-thoughts If installing the "FKE" model, do the damper rod need to be removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmacas87 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 In case after re-reading all these posts it's not clear, Matris does in fact sell a full-tilt 4-piston cartridge system for the FZ07 called the F15K. http://www.matrisdampers.com/en/prodotto/products/f15k/http://www.matrisdampers.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Yamaha-MT-07-14-web.pdf here's another forum thread on the subject: http://fz07.org/thread/3210/new-matris-f15-cartridge-thoughts If installing the "FKE" model, do the damper rod need to be[span] r[/span]emoved?No sorry I assumed you meant the cartridge kit. I believe the the FKE is just springs and oil. So for that you were right just swap out the old springs/spacers and refill with oil. Cap it up and ride... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762mm Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 If installing the "FKE" model, do the damper rod need to be[span] r[/span]emoved?No sorry I assumed you meant the cartridge kit. I believe the the FKE is just springs and oil. So for that you were right just swap out the old springs/spacers and refill with oil. Cap it up and ride...So the piece on the left just drops in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 ]So the piece on the left just drops in? I would expect so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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