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pattonme

Fork upgrades and compatible swaps

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pattonme

All prices on the first line of a product reflect known or approximate MSRP. All other prices reflect value at the time of posting but do not include shipping, credit card or merchant fees, and may be subject to currency fluctuations. They are a guide only and not necessarily a final, quoted price.
 
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** Springs (opt. with heavier oil) **


The 80% solution - The corresponding spring rates for rider weight and style will put an end to the dramatic dive experienced under braking. Replacing OEM oil with 15w (38-46cSt@40 - see oil chart) makes a discernible improvement to "composure" after bumps, and confidence into and during curves as the tendency to po-go is reduced. However, it's a pretty coarse adjustment and if the oil is too thick, especially if riding in colder temperatures (<50F) it can result in increased harshness, poor bump compliance, and reduced traction. Oil weight choice is a trade-off between rebound and compression behavior.
 
OEM is approximately 0.72kg/mm
 
PRO - inexpensive, DIY friendly (no special tools required)
CON - change oil weights with seasons, still harsh over sharp bumps, never quite "right"
 

  • Progressive Suspension (11-1145, 0.71kg/mm thru 1.16) : $85
  • Ohlins (08425-xx) : $140
  • Wilbers  (600-0486-00, 601-0480-00) : $120
  • Hyperpro (SP-YA07-SSA017) : $150 includes oil
  • Matris (FY111KE) : <price>
  • Sonic (3534-xx) : $85
  • Traxxion Dynamics () : $120
  • RaceTech (FRSP S3534-xx) : $125

 
 
** Emulators with Springs **
 
The 90% solution - Removes harshness on high-rate compression (sharp bump) events by replacing excessively restricted orifices with a tunable spring valve. Firms slow compression (under braking and wavy bumps) for better stability. Can run thicker oil for increased rebound effect while not introducing undue harshness in compression. However inconvenient and messy to tune - remove springs, fish GVE out of fork with hook or magnet, drop back into oil "blind" and hope it seated properly in damper rod, re-install springs, ...) Spring preload still not adjustable to achieve ideal sag or make adjustments when taking on passenger.
 
PRO - less temperature sensitive (esp. with Traxxion's replacement damper rods), tunable, good bump compliance
CON - considerably more shop time to install, can require special tools, time-consuming and messy to adjust, does not solve the rebound circuit's limitations
 
Racetech GVE (FEGV S4101) : $160 + springs
 
Ricor Intiminator (): <price>
 
Traxxion Dynamics damper rod+GVE kit : $350 includes springs
Product link

Matris (FY125SE) : $520 includes springs[ul type=disc]

Forum Thread

 
** Cartridges **
 
The 100% solution - Complete control of slow-compression and rebound circuits with no (Andreani, Matris), or some (Traxxion, Forks by Matt) inconvenience. Fast-compression adjustment via shim stack re-valving. A couple of clicks covers temperature effects, passenger loads, as well as Touring vs Sporty vs Track riding profiles. Use of light-weight oil greatly diminishes temperature sensitivity. Easy front sag setting via preload adjustable fork caps to handle varying loads, tune the stroke range, and influence overall behavior.
 
PRO - convenient, no-mess adjustments to all 3 tunables leads to "enlightenment"
CON - expensive, down-time for professional install (except Andreani), permanent modification of fork tube (except Matris F15 kit)
 
Andreani Group 105/Y11 : $600
Forum Thread

 
Bitubo JBH: $575

Forum Thread by Bellissimoto (@bellissimoto)


 
Forks by Matt : $400

Forum Thread - reworked Showa from GSXR

 
GP Suspension (??) : <price>
 
K-Tech Suspension (IDS20) : $895

  • K-Tech shop
  • Forks-by-Matt (@pattonme)
  • Hordpower (hordboy)

 
Ohlins (NIX-22 series) : $799

  • Forks-by-Matt (@pattonme)

 
Matris (F15Y125K) : 
  Forum Thread - NO alterations to stanchion, full 4-piston design

  • CarpiMoto (Italy) : E430
  • PJ's Parts : $578
  • Bellissimoto: $650?
  • Forks-by-Matt : $575 w/ compression fixes

 
Traxxion Dynamics :

 
 
** Frontends **

R6 thread

R1 thread

 

Edited by pattonme
  • Like 5

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pattonme
*bump* for new edits (guess I should have thought of that...)

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grahamfz07
Thanks for laying out our options

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paulibiker
Is the Andreani cartridge kit really only $450?

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aeisan
*bump* for new edits (guess I should have thought of that...)
Great info!  @admin ... This should be stickied. 

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so1102
*bump* for new edits (guess I should have thought of that...)
Great info!  @admin ... This should be stickied. 
Um, it has been for some time :)

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so1102
Is the Andreani cartridge kit really only $450?
If you live in Europe, I guess it is (due to current discount and exchange rates with the Euro) -- then you have to add 17% tax on top of that.  I do not believe Fast Bike Industries (the US distributor) can get them that cheap, however.  You can try giving them a call.

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aeisan
Great info!  @admin ... This should be stickied. 
Um, it has been for some time :)
Well then, good deal!  Pardon my ignorance.  Why was it "bumped" then?  

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so1102
Um, it has been for some time :)
Well then, good deal!  Pardon my ignorance.  Why was it "bumped" then?  
Because Matt updated the original post with more details, but the act of simply editing an existing post does not bump it up into the list of "recent topics" automatically.  He wanted to make sure it was visible to everyone without being buried.

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noltz
Is there a guide on how to install these?

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paulibiker
Is the Andreani cartridge kit really only $450?
If you live in Europe, I guess it is (due to current discount and exchange rates with the Euro) -- then you have to add 17% tax on top of that.  I do not believe Fast Bike Industries (the US distributor) can get them that cheap, however.  You can try giving them a call.
Hmmmmm.............order some stuff from "across the pond" last year and didn't have 17% tax. Has anyone in the US ordered from them?
 

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rowdy
I replaced the front fork springs today with Sonic Springs [HASH]85. I weigh [HASH]145, and that's what Sonic recommended.  The difference is not huge, then again, the stock fork worked pretty good for me at my weight (it's the shock that I think really sucks).  I went with PJ's 10W oil, and my overall impressions are that it responds a little nicer to the hits at speed, but doesn't "bounce" quite as much.  I think I might get some pre-load adjuster caps to play with that a little.  Still waiting for a Matris shock that should be here shortly.
 
  • Like 1

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YZEtc
How does the new spring rate compare to the stock spring rate?

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bmwpowere36m3
I replaced the front fork springs today with Sonic Springs [HASH]85. I weigh [HASH]145, and that's what Sonic recommended.  The difference is not huge, then again, the stock fork worked pretty good for me at my weight (it's the shock that I think really sucks).  I went with PJ's 10W oil, and my overall impressions are that it responds a little nicer to the hits at speed, but doesn't "bounce" quite as much.  I think I might get some pre-load adjuster caps to play with that a little.  Still waiting for a Matris shock that should be here shortly.
 
 
At 145 lbs it recommended 0.85 fork springs......

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rowdy
Woops. I meant 0.85kg/mm. I think stock has been measures at 0.72-0.75 (in spite of claimed 0.85).

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bmwpowere36m3
Seems high at 0.85 since they recommend that for a 200 lb rider, aggressive street, standard bike.

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Guest
I ordered the same as you today. 0.85kg/mm. From sonic I weigh 170/175 lbs and it recommend the 0.85 for me also . I was not sure of the oil weight but maybe ill try 10W to start.

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rowdy
Yea, not sure about that spring rate number for 200lbs, but Race Tech puts me at 0.82 so it seems reasonable for me.
After riding it, it is definitely not too firm. In fact seems a little softer than I anticipated, but the springs had an etched 0.85 on the top so I know that's what I got.
 

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pattonme
There's a "what rate spring do I need" thread: http://fz07.org/post/38631/thread
 
I updated the first post to mention what the OEM spring rate is. I don't know why RT would be recommending such low spring rates. I suspect they goofed their calculator. But we can discuss more of that per above.

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ryan4130
Rode the bike hard and really noticed the suspension problems through corners with any sort of bumps. In the First post you recommend using a heavier weight fork oil, but I thought the problem with stock forks was that the damping holes are too small.

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pattonme
see Po-Go thread (http://fz07.org/post/30596/thread)
 
The compression side holes are indeed too small, but the rebound is too big, so therefore heavier oil. It's a bandaid though.

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ryan4130
So which side of the fork is compression or rebound? I assume you imply on only changing to heavier oil on the side with large holes. What about also simultaneously changing the oil on the side with small holes to a lower viscosity?

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pattonme
you're confused Ryan or on the wrong thread. OEM forks are damper rod and left/right are identical. If you're talking about the Andreani kit, then the fork caps are marked with R and C.

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ryan4130
I had no idea thanks for clearing that up. So if the fork oil is changed to something heavier, compression would suffer (since small hole) but rebound would be better (since large hole)? I have no knowledge in suspension so I apologize in advance for stupid questions.
 
I am surprised that for how bad the suspension is, and is clearly known to be, there isn't more discussion and clear results on various improvements. I haven't seen any DIY on swapping fork oils (gains/sacrifices doing so, which specific oil to use, discussion of different viscositys/weights, etc.), or DIY on replacing fork springs, or full on cartridges. I see that you are really trying to educate, @pattonme , but it is hard to wrap my head around these improvements. Maybe it is a difficult subject

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