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pattonme

Shock upgrades and compatible swaps

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Evill_Ed
8 minutes ago, fzar said:

I might go ahead and do the front right away as it seem like a fools errand to not to both. I didn't want to do both at the same time as I wanted to see how much one change, either end would improve or adversely affect anything.

 

If you like the improvement the Ohlins provides in the rear, you will really appreciate the improved feedback the Ohlins cartridges will add to the front forks.

 

Ed

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fzar
On 9/28/2019 at 5:28 AM, Evill_Ed said:

Glad to hear how well the shock worked out for you. Can’t go wrong with Ohlins suspension.

 

Ed

To be honest, I was going down the road of the E-Bay sourced cbr600RR shock, and buying filter pods for clearance issues. I mean, I was trying to frankenstein the bike as much as I could with upgrades on a budget. I'm the guy who doesn't want to put  transformer looking head lights and wheel sticker's on his bike, nothing wrong with that if it's your thing, it's not mine.

It has to have an advantage to some degree, be it motor or handling as I will be tracking this beast as much as possible while using it for the street also. (There's very little street riding where I live, It's all well paved twisties.) I was trolling around and saw the STX46 for sale, it was on a vendors page, but not by a vendor. I think it was a conversation banter that just carried through. STX shock x 2 springs, 130 Nm + 140 Nm for a really good price.

I lost some great deals by my own procrastination before, so I reached out to the seller. To my dismay it was already in contract with someone else. The buyer flaked and I got a call from @cornerslider.  Its your if you have the money, Brilliant!!!!

But it has to be street- legal. I don't need turn signals or mirrors in Arkansas, but I keep them on for my, and others safety. There OEM and I see no need to change them.  Glitter should be illegal ,and I have 14 black t-shirts. 

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fzar
15 minutes ago, Evill_Ed said:

If you like the improvement the Ohlins provides in the rear, you will really appreciate the improved feedback the Ohlins cartridges will add to the front forks.

 

Ed

I'm sure I will. What spring rate did you get for your weight? and if you could would you have gone a rate higher? And use the adjustments to take off the slightly over sprung spring?

 

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Evill_Ed
23 minutes ago, fzar said:

I'm sure I will. What spring rate did you get for your weight? and if you could would you have gone a rate higher? And use the adjustments to take off the slightly over sprung spring?

 

I am 5’11” and I weighed 182lb when I ordered/purchased my suspension last winter. With all my track gear, 19lbs, the spring rates were set for a 201 lb rider. Diet change and exercise had my weight drop to 170 lbs, 189 lbs with track gear. 

My Ohlins cartridges were fitted with .95 springs, chosen by  Ohlins for my weight (201 lbs) and track day riding. At my lower weight, I just get 30mm of Sag with no added preload from the adjusters on the cartridge caps. The springs have 7mm installed preload, I forget how much more can be added by threading in the adjusters.

Anyway, my forks work well on the track. I use about 80% of the available travel. Same is true with the rear shock set up.

For  track use , mine set up seems good, however I may go down one size on shock and fork springs. I think I’d have a better range of adjustment for my lower weight. These rates are harsh on the street, but if I back off the comp 6-7 clicks on each end, it’s not too bad. 

Ohlins said I could get .85 springs to try and even use a.85 in one leg and a .95  spring in the other leg to get a .90 combined rate. 

 

I would check with Ohlin or your vendor to see what rate they recommend for you weight and riding style. 

Ed

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fzar

On another note I got my SAG#'s in and I don't have a suspension person to help me with setup. I'm using the SAG measurements from Ohlins:

 R1= unweighted rear. (575mm)

R2= bike under its own weight. (560mm)

R3= Rider in full gear on the bike. (534mm)

Free SAG on the rear is (15mm)

Ride height is (41mm)

How do I get the ride height number closer to 25mm-30mm? Im 8mm on pre-load from the base of the shock  and 7 clicks out from fully in on the rebound. Do I dial in more pre-load or more rebound to get to 25mm- 30mm?

Iv'e done race-techs SAG procedure before and its not too much of a difference.

I'm trying a rebound all the way in and 5 clicks out as opposed, to 7 clicks to see what happens tomorrow, same road same conditions. 

Any input is appreciated.

 

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Evill_Ed
18 minutes ago, fzar said:

On another note I got my SAG#'s in and I don't have a suspension person to help me with setup. I'm using the SAG measurements from Ohlins:

 R1= unweighted rear. (575mm)

R2= bike under its own weight. (560mm)

R3= Rider in full gear on the bike. (534mm)

Free SAG on the rear is (15mm)

Ride height is (41mm)

How do I get the ride height number closer to 25mm-30mm? Im 8mm on pre-load from the base of the shock  and 7 clicks out from fully in on the rebound. Do I dial in more pre-load or more rebound to get to 25mm- 30mm?

Iv'e done race-techs SAG procedure before and its not too much of a difference.

I'm trying a rebound all the way in and 5 clicks out as opposed, to 7 clicks to see what happens tomorrow, same road same conditions. 

Any input is appreciated.

 

You adjust Sag with spring preload. Use the adjuster rings on the shock. Tighten them and remeasured. For street riding, 40 mm total Sag isn’t bad, softer ride. 30-35 mm would be good for more aggressive riding.  You use the compression and rebound after Sag is set to adjust how the shock responds. 

Check out Dave Moss 2 Clicks Out videos on YouTube. He explains this well in many of his videos. He even has one on a track day FZ-07. 

 

Ed

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fzar
5 minutes ago, Evill_Ed said:

Dave Moss

@mossrider keeps on signing his posts with, Dave. I was thinking he's Dave Moss. LOL.

 

6 minutes ago, Evill_Ed said:

For street riding, 40 mm total Sag isn’t bad, softer ride. 30-35 mm would be good for more aggressive riding.  You use the compression and rebound after Sag is set to adjust how the shock responds. 

I may swap the spring from the 140Nm - the 130Nm. I'll have a lot of work to do once I get the from @pgeldz Right now I'm just having fun with my new toys!

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mossrider
Just now, fzar said:

@mossrider keeps on signing his posts with, Dave. I was thinking he's Dave Moss. LOL.

Mystic Order of Secret Sh#t rider. No relation to Mr Moss the suspension master. I'm no one of consequence. 

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1tondriver

I am going to see I suspension guy tomorrow and have him make the”proper” settings to my suspension. I have been tinkering around and making educated guesses but want an expert to help so I get it right. I will report back on the settings after. 

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mossrider
1 hour ago, 1tondriver said:

I am going to see I suspension guy tomorrow and have him make the”proper” settings to my suspension. I have been tinkering around and making educated guesses but want an expert to help so I get it right. I will report back on the settings after. 

Watch and bug him about it so you can learn and start a personal data base for future adjustments. Watch what he does and ask why and what the result will be for each change. Then ask more questions. When he rolls his eyes you're getting close to his limit, if he's good and explains stuff well and is tolerant, tip him a 12 pak of Mt Dew or something and you've made a valuable professional contact.

Good luck and happy learning!

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fzar
2 hours ago, 1tondriver said:

I am going to see I suspension guy tomorrow and have him make the”proper” settings to my suspension. I have been tinkering around and making educated guesses but want an expert to help so I get it right. I will report back on the settings after. 

Good for you. I have to find a good suspension person around my neck of the woods.

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1tondriver
26 minutes ago, mossrider said:

Watch and bug him about it so you can learn and start a personal data base for future adjustments. Watch what he does and ask why and what the result will be for each change. Then ask more questions. When he rolls his eyes you're getting close to his limit, if he's good and explains stuff well and is tolerant, tip him a 12 pak of Mt Dew or something and you've made a valuable professional contact.

Good luck and happy learning!

That made me laugh but that is exactly what I am going to do 🤣. He has a good reputation here in Michigan so I plan to make him tell me to shut up. I will load up the backpack with some pops, good idea. 
I will report back and yes will be keeping a log, not just a wadded up napkin I can’t find. 

fzar, I sent out emails to every shop and association  I could find within 200 miles and a couple recommended this guy. I was really surprised how many offered help and took the time to message me back. Pretty cool 😎 
 

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1tondriver
Posted (edited)

Pretty eye opening today meeting with Doug. He is very knowledgeable and has quite the stable of race bikes going back to the 80’s. 
So as it turns out my settings were really darn good (surprised the heck out of me). The biggest takeaway is the front forks. He was not too impressed with them, even with my DDC’s installed. He was definitely not a fan of the rebound and before he told me that, he asked if I would go wide on hairpin turns which I responded “yes”. He also said that they probably seemed a bit harsh on our terrific Michigan roads (right again). He said the rebound was extremely fast and definitely not optimal but no adjustments could be made with the current set up to change that. He said they were better than stock but still are lacking. 
He advised that going to a proper cartridge would be worlds better. I am probably going to do that in the near future just because I want a good suspension set up overall. 
I also realized about 45 minutes into my ride home I left my notebook 🤬. Real knowledgeable guy and didn’t even charge me. He will get my business when I switch up the front end and knowing me will probably be right away 🤑
 

Edited by 1tondriver

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Zupatun

My Matris cartridges work well...Fofks by Matt set them up for me...he recommended. I likey.

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bugsinteeth
Posted (edited)
On 10/1/2019 at 11:44 AM, 1tondriver said:

Pretty eye opening today meeting with Doug. He is very knowledgeable and has quite the stable of race bikes going back to the 80’s. 
So as it turns out my settings were really darn good (surprised the heck out of me). The biggest takeaway is the front forks. He was not too impressed with them, even with my DDC’s installed. He was definitely not a fan of the rebound and before he told me that, he asked if I would go wide on hairpin turns which I responded “yes”. He also said that they probably seemed a bit harsh on our terrific Michigan roads (right again). He said the rebound was extremely fast and definitely not optimal but no adjustments could be made with the current set up to change that. He said they were better than stock but still are lacking. 
He advised that going to a proper cartridge would be worlds better. I am probably going to do that in the near future just because I want a good suspension set up overall. 
I also realized about 45 minutes into my ride home I left my notebook 🤬. Real knowledgeable guy and didn’t even charge me. He will get my business when I switch up the front end and knowing me will probably be right away 🤑
 

hey 1ton, what oil did you put in with your DDC's ?  and how much ?   

I just did DDC's also and took Tod's reccommend.... Spectro 85-150 5 wt.... @ 150 mm's... ?

I also cut the spacer 17 mm, and installed Preload adjusters...

 

 

Edited by bugsinteeth

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1tondriver
11 hours ago, bugsinteeth said:

hey 1ton, what oil did you put in with your DDC's ?  and how much ?   

I just did DDC's also and took Tod's reccommend.... Spectro 85-150 5 wt.... @ 150 mm's... ?

I also cut the spacer 17 mm, and installed Preload adjusters...

 

 

I followed Todd’s recommendation also and did the same oil and quantity as you did. I also installed preload adjusters and trimmed 15mm so pretty much exact same set up. 
I did notice an improvement over stock for sure and I am getting the right amount of travel. No way they are going to bottom out also. 
The rebound is still really fast and I am still debating on switching up for some cartridges but won’t be this year if I do. 
Overall with the rear shock change and DDC’s I still think it is pretty decent. If I do a lot of track days next season I will probably switch up the front. If not I will probably keep the DDC’s. 

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bugsinteeth

thanx for the reply....I'm going to talk to Tod, to see if mayhap a little heavier oil would  help slow the rebound without bricking the compression damping....

it IS pretty dang nice compared to the stock setup however.....

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Zupatun

When I had cartridge emulators in my SV650...I was able to do 108s around Beaverrun...race pace for Wera stock class was 102s...Scott Rosey was giving me a tow doing 108/109.  He said cartridges were easy for two seconds.   I dont know if RaceTech emulators are better than DDCs or not...but I do love my cartridges in my XSR700...its clearly a better solution, and each technology has its limitations. Sometimes only more money can fix a technical problem.

Matt

 

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1tondriver
1 hour ago, bugsinteeth said:

thanx for the reply....I'm going to talk to Tod, to see if mayhap a little heavier oil would  help slow the rebound without bricking the compression damping....

it IS pretty dang nice compared to the stock setup however.....

Please let me know what he says about that. I have a feeling he is not going to be an advocate but I could be wrong. 
I agree it is a lot better than stock and the price vs cartridges is a heck of a lot better as well 😛
I have done so much to my bike getting it to where I want it but the front end just lacks a tad bit. Don’t know that I can justify the cartridges as I am no Troy Corser

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bugsinteeth
Posted (edited)

welllll....I just ride on the street, and I'm 72,  SOOO......  am not going to dump Mo' Money into the

forks, they are good 'nuff thisaway, ALMOST......I have a Ktech Razor lite coming for the back, and

other than possibly an oil change, that's ALL folks !

 

(and I will let ya know what he says)

Edited by bugsinteeth

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bugsinteeth

hey 1ton, he said that I should add some sag, and likely that would help the rebound...(less spring to go "Boing"  I guess)....

he also said if I wasn't satisfied, he could send me another shim to help the rebound....   may do that....after the oil change....

anyhow, I cut three more mm's offa the spacer (now 20 tot.), and wound the preload adjusters all the way out....now have 40  mm's sag,  and it feels VERY slightly better....I have some Redline Yelllow coming and am going to change to that...will update ya after that....

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1tondriver
1 hour ago, bugsinteeth said:

hey 1ton, he said that I should add some sag, and likely that would help the rebound...(less spring to go "Boing"  I guess)....

he also said if I wasn't satisfied, he could send me another shim to help the rebound....   may do that....after the oil change....

anyhow, I cut three more mm's offa the spacer (now 20 tot.), and wound the preload adjusters all the way out....now have 40  mm's sag,  and it feels VERY slightly better....I have some Redline Yelllow coming and am going to change to that...will update ya after that....

Thanks for the update bugs! Was that change that you did a game changer in any way or just a slight difference? Thanks for being the guinea pig on this one. It makes sense adding sag but I will be curious as to how much of a difference it is. Keep me posted 🤟

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bugsinteeth

no, not a game changer at all....just a slight difference, and not sure I like it, altho the front seemed to be a bit more cushy....

I'm old and slo, so I need more time to determine if the change is allright.....just had a very short 10 min ride after changing it....

I am Definitely going to change the oil to a bit heavier oil tho....soon's it gets here...prolly next week....

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1tondriver
21 minutes ago, bugsinteeth said:

no, not a game changer at all....just a slight difference, and not sure I like it, altho the front seemed to be a bit more cushy....

I'm old and slo, so I need more time to determine if the change is allright.....just had a very short 10 min ride after changing it....

I am Definitely going to change the oil to a bit heavier oil tho....soon's it gets here...prolly next week....

At 54 I am no spring chicken myself 😂. The oil change will be interesting to see how it behaves. It should slow everything down but I am not sure that it is going to be a good thing and may feel harsh.  Just a curious question, how much travel are you getting? I put a zip tie on this evening and rode for about 45 minutes. Going to measure tomorrow. 

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RobZilla

I've installed preload adjusters on my stock xsr700 and am curious how much preload people are adding with them. The adjuster has 20mm of total preload (per said specs) with 10mm being the minimum and I have it set to about 13mm total and it definitely takes out a lot of the initial slop out of the suspension. I'm wondering how far is too much. I'm new to adjusting suspension and trying to learn. I'm trying to make due with this spring without swapping it. May swap the oil as well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KGQR8F9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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