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pattonme

Shock upgrades and compatible swaps

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rick
I personally don't think that "springs too stiff" is a problem in the front unless you weigh about 100 lbs. I noticed when I changed my springs that the stock oil seemed like maple syrup compared to the PJ's 10W I replaced it with (I know that is contrary to other posts, but it is what it is). The front fork is VERY responsive on bumps now, but slightly under-damped, and I might try a fork oil with a slightly higher VI (before I resort to having them rebuilt by pattonme), but they work much better now. The rear is another issue because the stock shock is either too bouncy, or it kicks your arse every time you hit a bump. (My Matris KD is like heaven and smooths everything out making corners with less than perfect tarmac a non-issue).
Be careful comparing these viscosity numbers as "weights". They can mean absolutely nothing, especially when you go company to company. 
 
According one of the lists you can find anywhere with a search http://mahonkin.com/~milktree/motorcycles/fork-oil.html, PJ1's 10 has a cSt value of 33.9. Mobil One's synthetic ATF has a cSt value of 44! 
 
There's really no way to know what's in the fork OE, but Kayaba sells its own fluids as well. Their "10W" fluid is 33 cSt, (about the same as your PJ1) but their 15wt is a whopping 47 cSt. Interestingly, there are Yamaha listings with the same names and numbers. So it's probably one of those. 
 
The fluid that Kayaba likely uses in cartridge forks is called zero-One and has a 15.6 cSt value, which is right in line with the Ohlins No. 5 fluid that comes with the Andreani kit
 
 
 
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rowdy
I personally don't think that "springs too stiff" is a problem in the front unless you weigh about 100 lbs. I noticed when I changed my springs that the stock oil seemed like maple syrup compared to the PJ's 10W I replaced it with (I know that is contrary to other posts, but it is what it is). The front fork is VERY responsive on bumps now, but slightly under-damped, and I might try a fork oil with a slightly higher VI (before I resort to having them rebuilt by pattonme), but they work much better now. The rear is another issue because the stock shock is either too bouncy, or it kicks your arse every time you hit a bump. (My Matris KD is like heaven and smooths everything out making corners with less than perfect tarmac a non-issue).
Be careful comparing these viscosity numbers as "weights". They can mean absolutely nothing, especially when you go company to company.  
According one of the lists you can find anywhere with a search http://mahonkin.com/~milktree/motorcycles/fork-oil.html, PJ1's 10 has a cSt value of 33.9. Mobil One's synthetic ATF has a cSt value of 44! 
 
There's really no way to know what's in the fork OE, but Kayaba sells its own fluids as well. Their "10W" fluid is 33 cSt, (about the same as your PJ1) but their 15wt is a whopping 47 cSt. Interestingly, there are Yamaha listings with the same names and numbers. So it's probably one of those. 
 
The fluid that Kayaba likely uses in cartridge forks is called zero-One and has a 15.6 cSt value, which is right in line with the Ohlins No. 5 fluid that comes with the Andreani kit
 
 
 
Thanks Rick!
I should have said cSt rather than VI, but yea, the rated weight seems kinda misleading. I definitely would not want anything lower than the PJ's that's in there now, but trying to improve the fork at this point might be like putting lipstick on a pig anyway. ;)
 


Why can't left turners see us?

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bigtwin

I have continued my appraisal of Andreani cartridges in another thread. "Andreani Advanced Cartridge kit" if you want to know how it is going please read updates there. Regards bigtwin

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cybmx

so a 05 CBR600RR would be a possible direct swap? I saw one on my local craigslist for $60, lol

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pattonme

with emphasis on "possible"


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pattonme

YSS shock looks nicely priced even after import duties


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pattonme

added Penske Street shock model, and reference to Traxxion Dynamics as supplier and forum sponsor.


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rick
added Penske Street shock model, and reference to Traxxion Dynamics as supplier and forum sponsor.
The base model Penske shock is a twin tube - the FZ's horizontal mounting is not ideal for that type of shock.  When you jump up to the next levels Penske - those will work just fine of course, as they have separate reservoirs for the N2 or whatever magic gas they use.   
The base Nitron, or Ohlins are better choices as they are mono-tube shocks. 

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RobMoore

I bit the bullet and bought an 07 GSXR 1000 shock off eBay for $50 in good shape. I saw plenty of others in the 50-100 range.
 
I'll post up when it comes in and I have a chance to see if it works.
 
I figured $50 was a price I'd not cry too hard about if it doesn't work and I have to resell it.

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pattonme

@rick, yes Emulsion shocks (no piston between oil and gas - almost always N2) aren't the best as a general rule, and I agree in lay-down config I'm not sure how it's supposed to work but I defer to Penske/Traxxion on that. (sending my Traxxion contact an email...)
 


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pattonme

So Penske has tested lay-down and an Emulsion shock "works just fine". Not sure I share that assertion given the caveats...
 
Penske - Emulsion Shock Update
 
 


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rick
@rick, yes Emulsion shocks (no piston between oil and gas - almost always N2) aren't the best as a general rule, and I agree in lay-down config I'm not sure how it's supposed to work but I defer to Penske/Traxxion on that. (sending my Traxxion contact an email...)
There is one advantage - with a bladder taking up room in a shock like the Ohlins I bought, the piston travel winds up being a bit restricted. That's not an issue on the twin tube shock.  
Nitron makes a big deal out of their base shock being monotube and not twin. It was their pr shtick that caused me to read up on these things - before that, had no idea and just thought it was expensive, so had to be better than OE 

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amycyclenut
@rick, yes Emulsion shocks (no piston between oil and gas - almost always N2) aren't the best as a general rule, and I agree in lay-down config I'm not sure how it's supposed to work but I defer to Penske/Traxxion on that. (sending my Traxxion contact an email...)
Please do, I'd be very interested to know what it took to make it work!

2015 FZ-07
1986 FZ600
1974 CB450
1973 RD350
sold: 1970 CB350, 1972 CB175, 2009 Vespa S 150

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pattonme
Please do, I'd be very interested to know what it took to make it work!
 
I guess you missed it? http://fz07.org/post/52251

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rick
So Penske has tested lay-down and an Emulsion shock "works just fine". Not sure I share that assertion given the caveats... 
Penske - Emulsion Shock Update
 

have no idea how to go about read that chart.  
That aside, it would have been nice if they'd run that shock up to about 150F (65c) where rear shocks live, instead of just 10F over today's ambient temp here. 
 
A more realistic operating temp would have made for a better test imo. just sayin.
 
It's still gotta be a better shock than the springy lump of steel that comes OE on the 7
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amycyclenut
Please do, I'd be very interested to know what it took to make it work!
I guess you missed it? http://fz07.org/post/52251
Well crap, I quoted the wrong stuff.... I am interested in that GSXR1000 swap.

2015 FZ-07
1986 FZ600
1974 CB450
1973 RD350
sold: 1970 CB350, 1972 CB175, 2009 Vespa S 150

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amycyclenut
I bit the bullet and bought an 07 GSXR 1000 shock off eBay for $50 in good shape. I saw plenty of others in the 50-100 range. 
I'll post up when it comes in and I have a chance to see if it works.
 
I figured $50 was a price I'd not cry too hard about if it doesn't work and I have to resell it.
Please let us know how this goes, I'm quite interested.

2015 FZ-07
1986 FZ600
1974 CB450
1973 RD350
sold: 1970 CB350, 1972 CB175, 2009 Vespa S 150

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RobMoore

Shipped today, buy yesterday was the wife's due date...we'll see what kinda free time I have in the next two weeks, lol

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adv42

Anyone have experience with Hagon shock?

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RobMoore

Sadly the Gixxer shock isn't going to work without mods I'm not willing to perform.
 
image_3.jpg
 
There is very little space above or below the bolt on the front, and as you can see below...
 
image_4.jpg
 
the GSXR shock needs a space for the reservoir.
 
So, short of removing my airbox and running pod filters on the throttle bodies, I don't see this option working.

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pattonme

flip the shock around end for end. Also one option is to cut a hole for the reservoir and then stuff something around it to plug it back up. Ghetto, I realize...


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RobMoore

I don't know if that would work, flipping it. The other end is the bunny ear style (nomenclature?) instead of the bolt hole.

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RobMoore
image_5.jpg
 
So flipping won't work. The inside diameter between these two connections is 31mm
 
image_8.jpg
 
and those ears aren't fitting in there.
 
I may rethink removing the airbox and running a dual pod filter on the end of a short length of hose. There is plenty of room to do that, and with some quality silicon air hose cut to length it would look pretty decent (though you'd never see it with the body panels on).
 
image_7.jpg
http://www.knfilters.com/search/univdualstroval.aspx
 
http://www.intakehoses.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=SC4

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riding4fun

Glad someone is working on finding a good stock replacement shock. Keep up the good work.

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pattonme

Not to inject false hope but the "bunny ears" block can be removed from the shaft and a custom part threaded on that retains the adjustment and fits inside the 31mm diameter.


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