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pattonme

Shock upgrades and compatible swaps

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rowdy
I guess that could work. I'm just not overly happy with putting ~400lb on a footpeg, it's pivot pin nor the "rearsets" that's only designed to support ~250 and for brief moments at that. (do you ride with your butt in the air and thus the pegs taking all your weight?) 
Can you get away with it? I expect so.
I ride with my butt in the air, but that's another issue, and who are you to judge?  :) I'm pretty sure the pegs are designed to take 400# because, a 250# guy at 2g could be crushing them going over bumps.
But...  I haven't done it, and don't know what the other required "pin" would be.  In any case, I don't have a garage with a ceiling hoist, so I'm looking for other alternatives.
 
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pattonme

> so I'm looking for other alternatives.
 
Harbor Freight engine hoist. Hey, you asked... Or a friendly neighbor with the accouterments.


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bmwpowere36m3

Service manual mentions running a long rod thru the passenger peg brackets (triangular opening of bracket, against the lower subframe tube and supporting the rod obviously.
 
I used a heavy duty ladder, a-frame, across the rear of the bike, jacked the rear end up, ran a jack rod/handle (wrapped in a towel) thru the peg brackets and used a set of tie-downs from the rod to the ladder. If one of the ladder's rungs would have lined up with the rod, that'd been awesome.
 
An engine hoist probably would work, tie-downs secured to ceiling rafters or come-along, thick rod thru swingarm pivot bolt... many options, just have to be resourceful ;)

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ryan4130

So has there been a definitive solution found yet for a rear shock replacement? (i.e. has anyone actually had a successful swap?)  Rear shocks off other bikes can be had for ~$200 on ebay which is considerably cheaper than an aftermarket rear shock for our bike. I know shock swapping is a pretty common solution on other bikes.


'15 FZ-09 Cadmium Yellow
'15 White Fz-07 - Sold

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so1102
So has there been a definitive solution found yet for a rear shock replacement? (i.e. has anyone actually had a successful swap?)  Rear shocks off other bikes can be had for ~$200 on ebay which is considerably cheaper than an aftermarket rear shock for our bike. I know shock swapping is a pretty common solution on other bikes.
Here was my solution:  pay someone to install it for me.  Took less than an hour and he charged me $70, which was (in my opinion) well worth it.

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pattonme
So has there been a definitive solution found yet for a rear shock replacement? (i.e. has anyone actually had a successful swap?)  Rear shocks off other bikes can be had for ~$200 on ebay which is considerably cheaper than an aftermarket rear shock for our bike. I know shock swapping is a pretty common solution on other bikes.
No, nobody on the forum at least as attempted a so-called "compat" swapout. They've all sprung for bike-specific upgrade offerings. Wilt thoust be our fearless explorer? The minstrels and bards await.
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rick

Saw one Aussie a while back who put a fully adj, w/remote reservoir, Nitron on his MT07. Was looking at Nitron for a while before jumping in on the "deal". Nitron is still not very well organized here for some reason.
 
Hasn't someone else gone the Penske route. Penske's base shock is a twin tube that would not work well on its side like what we have. So if you went Penske, a remote res would be called for.

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ryan4130

@so1102 I was talking about if anyone found an actual shock at works off a different bike, non-aftermarket.


'15 FZ-09 Cadmium Yellow
'15 White Fz-07 - Sold

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rick

Oops, my ad
 
Motorcyclist did that with their long term FZ09. Can't remember what they used (an 6R?) , but they weren't happy with it and went with new - Wanna say it was Nitron, but can't remember for sure
 
Yep, don't recall anyone grafting something from the parts bin.

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evfz

Ohlins shock is arriving by Friday. Anyone have any recommended starting point for rebound setting/clicks? (rider + gear = 190 lbs)

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howlinhoss
Ohlins shock is arriving by Friday. Anyone have any recommended starting point for rebound setting/clicks? (rider + gear = 190 lbs)
First, determine baseline settings and write them down. Then set your preload to obtain desired sag. Leave rebound setting alone and go for a ride. Change as necessary but make sure to remember baseline settings in case you want to "reset". There is no magic number for these settings and it is highly dependent on the road condition and your riding style/suspension preferences.

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rick
Ohlins shock is arriving by Friday. Anyone have any recommended starting point for rebound setting/clicks? (rider + gear = 190 lbs)
It'll come with a booklet. If yer getting the same one I just put on (the Anrdreani kit one) I think the std. rebound is 14 clicks out and it'll come that way. The spring should have been picked for your weight, so the preload collar will be somewhere down about an inch from the bottom.  
But like howliness said, yer just gonna have to go at it. Measure sag 1st, then take it for a ride with it as it comes. If yer happy, leave, if not - well... change it
 
I'll be backing down the preload on mine after the 1st ride. And considering the quality ( or lack of) our roads here, I suspect I'll be at 15 or maybe 16 clicks out on the rebound. 
 
Take an ink marker and put a dot on the outside of one of the ring's teeth to make it easier to keep tabs (heh, heh) on where the adjuster is if you need to change preload. 

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bigtwin
Ohlins shock is arriving by Friday. Anyone have any recommended starting point for rebound setting/clicks? (rider + gear = 190 lbs)
It'll come with a booklet. If yer getting the same one I just put on (the Anrdreani kit one) I think the std. rebound is 14 clicks out and it'll come that way. The spring should have been picked for your weight, so the preload collar will be somewhere down about an inch from the bottom.  
But like howliness said, yer just gonna have to go at it. Measure sag 1st, then take it for a ride with it as it comes. If yer happy, leave, if not - well... change it
 
I'll be backing down the preload on mine after the 1st ride. And considering the quality ( or lack of) our roads here, I suspect I'll be at 15 or maybe 16 clicks out on the rebound. 
 
Take an ink marker and put a dot on the outside of one of the ring's teeth to make it easier to keep tabs (heh, heh) on where the adjuster is if you need to change preload. 
 
 
I have been testing my Andreani and ohlin all this week in the UK. The roads are in dreadful shape and my set up is clearly track biased. It is fantastic on track like A roads but on country lanes with badly done repairs ....frost damage....pot holes and so on...the front end cannot respond fast enough or with compliance. As others may have read in another thread I am out of adjustment on the front but the ohlin is working very well. I have tried 12-17 click range this week and have ended up back at the recommended 14 clicks with spring pre load set up for my sag.

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rick

My preference for a compliant ride keeps popping up. I'm pretty happy with 14mm of threads for preload showing( dunno what rate spring I have, but it's probably as low as available) and 16 clicks out for rebound. That's really transformed the ride quality. I'm no longer getting launched out of the seat over frost heaves and bridge joints. .
 
I ordered that Redline fluid and the bushing/seal kits. My luck I'll be the 1st to find the correct lower bushing - but I'd rather have parts on the shelf than have it all open and tap my toes waiting
 
Gonna start with the 4 turns of adjustment and the lighter fluid in the compression side and see how that works. I am curious to see how yours feels with the fluid change and maybe 1 more adjustment turn available.
 
 

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bigtwin
My preference for a compliant ride keeps popping up. I'm pretty happy with 14mm of threads for preload showing( dunno what rate spring I have, but it's probably as low as available) and 16 clicks out for rebound. That's really transformed the ride quality. I'm no longer getting launched out of the seat over frost heaves and bridge joints. .  
I ordered that Redline fluid and the bushing/seal kits. My luck I'll be the 1st to find the correct lower bushing - but I'd rather have parts on the shelf than have it all open and tap my toes waiting
 
Gonna start with the 4 turns of adjustment and the lighter fluid in the compression side and see how that works. I am curious to see how yours feels with the fluid change and maybe 1 more adjustment turn available.
 

 
 
Hi Rick...today I rode to my daughters home very fast on sweeping but bumpy roads that I know well...I decided to go radical on the front .....bearing in mind I have been running 0 turns comp and rebound. So went 3 on rebound 2 on comp. It was hard but very much improved on feel. After 20 miles I changed comp to 1. Then it was even better with more tyre feedback. On this basis I think that all it needs to be really good is a softer spring .why?....well at high speeds 85-90 on complex surfaces at the same time bend swinging,the Bike feels planted in terms of remaining where it is pointed....but the front end is bucking on bumps and pattering on rippled sections.on smooth roads it is behaves like my Ducati 999S very good indeed!

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mittypnj

Cheap bike expensive upgrades.
 

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pattonme

$7000USD aint' cheap in my book that it was necessary to ship such shet for suspension.
 
@bigtwin, "but the front end is bucking on bumps" is not solvable with springs. You have insufficient flow. If you're defining "feedback" as getting jolts into the palms of your hands, well, that's your prerogative of course. It would be great if you could run the same course on the Ducati. At least we know that has top shelf suspension (if setup correctly) and you can experiment with clickers.
 
BTW, it is customary to count needles as turns out from seated. It seems your post was using turns in from fully out?


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rick
$7000USD aint' cheap in my book that it was necessary to ship such shet for suspension. 
@bigtwin, "but the front end is bucking on bumps" is not solvable with springs. You have insufficient flow. If you're defining "feedback" as getting jolts into the palms of your hands, well, that's your prerogative of course. It would be great if you could run the same course on the Ducati. At least we know that has top shelf suspension (if setup correctly) and you can experiment with clickers.
 
BTW, it is customary to count needles as turns out from seated. It seems your post was using turns in from fully out?
And this is pretty much what I've been doing between my 2 bikes. My Futura's legs aren't top shelf, but in comparison to the FZ, it's like riding a luxury car that'll run the same speeds thru the same turns while having good control.  
 
And yeah, jolts in the hands and arse are what I'm trying to get away from on the FZ. The Ohlins set up nice and soft eliminates the arse problem. 
 
Hmm, if the springs are way too stiff and the suspension is topped out, can't that cause the front to be harsh? But if sag measurements are in the ballpark, then yeah, it's all about high speed flow on the compression side (what the OE forks already suck at). The fluid just can't get past the valve quick enough and it's almost like having no damper, just a solid piece until the demand for movement slow down.  
 
 

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rick
Cheap bike expensive upgrades.
Well, better to start inexpensive and spend than add money to expensive going in.  
At least the Andreani kit made that Ohlins shock downright reasonably priced. And it's perfect. 
 
But yeah, so true. 

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rowdy

I personally don't think that "springs too stiff" is a problem in the front unless you weigh about 100 lbs. I noticed when I changed my springs that the stock oil seemed like maple syrup compared to the PJ's 10W I replaced it with (I know that is contrary to other posts, but it is what it is). The front fork is VERY responsive on bumps now, but slightly under-damped, and I might try a fork oil with a slightly higher VI (before I resort to having them rebuilt by pattonme), but they work much better now.
The rear is another issue because the stock shock is either too bouncy, or it kicks your arse every time you hit a bump. (My Matris KD is like heaven and smooths everything out making corners with less than perfect tarmac a non-issue).

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pattonme
the stock oil seemed like maple syrup compared to the PJ's 10W I replaced it with
Oh god... Kayaba Bushing Man is now manning the fork oil filler. The oil that I've seen so far is bright, fricken, maraschino cherry red. Ok, fine, it's ATF red...

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rowdy

Well... Cherry red is right. I read that ATF is about 10W also? but maybe it's just not meant to be in a fork?
Either way, the springs are heavier than stock, and the fork is more responsive over bumps.


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bigtwin
$7000USD aint' cheap in my book that it was necessary to ship such shet for suspension. 
@bigtwin, "but the front end is bucking on bumps" is not solvable with springs. You have insufficient flow. If you're defining "feedback" as getting jolts into the palms of your hands, well, that's your prerogative of course. It would be great if you could run the same course on the Ducati. At least we know that has top shelf suspension (if setup correctly) and you can experiment with clickers.
 
BTW, it is customary to count needles as turns out from seated. It seems your post was using turns in from fully out?
 
 
Point taken Pattonme.... there is a four turn range on the needles and because I was fully out when I was riding to the UK I adjusted from there. Hence my"turns in" I will from now on quote turns out.
My reference to feedback was not meant to describe the bump/jolts through the handlebars but that very subtle feeling you get from the tyre on different road dressings. My comment should have said that too much damping on the Andreanis removed this feedback. Guys....I am giving all my riding findings to this community to increase the knowledge fund on this particular suspension. Forgive me for the mistake of drawing a conclusion by blaming the spring. I'll stick to observations in future. I ride back to Netherlands tomorrow and early next week I will try to get a 2.5 oil for the rebound leg to see what happens.

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pattonme

Sorry @bigtwin did I come across as harsh? My appologies if so. Springs vs oil vs valving is one of those 3-way dances. Generally speaking if you use a weaker spring, the demands placed on the valving go up. This means you either run lighter valving and/or lighter oil. If the oil weight is reasonable, and the valve stack seems within the ball park, then choppy behavior can be addressed with *stiffer* springs. Well, to the point that preload and sag are no longer in the desired range. But most of the time there's a problem in the hydraulics.
 
I very much appreciate your testing and reports.
 
> My comment should have said that too much damping on the Andreanis removed this feedback.
 
Am I'm misreading your post? I parsed it as feedback was worse with needles at '0' or all the way out. This means damping was at it's least. Turning the needles inward a couple turns seemed to have increased the feedback and in a good way? Not unexpected. So maybe the needle taper is more useful after all...


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bigtwin
Sorry @bigtwin did I come across as harsh? My appologies if so. Springs vs oil vs valving is one of those 3-way dances. Generally speaking if you use a weaker spring, the demands placed on the valving go up. This means you either run lighter valving and/or lighter oil. If the oil weight is reasonable, and the valve stack seems within the ball park, then choppy behavior can be addressed with *stiffer* springs. Well, to the point that preload and sag are no longer in the desired range. But most of the time there's a problem in the hydraulics. 
I very much appreciate your testing and reports.
 
> My comment should have said that too much damping on the Andreanis removed this feedback.
 
Am I'm misreading your post? I parsed it as feedback was worse with needles at '0' or all the way out. This means damping was at it's least. Turning the needles inward a couple turns seemed to have increased the feedback and in a good way? Not unexpected. So maybe the needle taper is more useful after all...
 
Yes you parsed correctly ...I was surprised as it clearly improved. Lets try 2.5 oil and are where that leads.

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