Roll-on test against an FZ-09

[pgeldz]

So I finally rode my bike this morning with some buddies of mine.  This whole week was like 75 degrees and sunny, and the one day I finally get to ride it's cloudy and 52 degrees out  UGG!
 
LOL
 
Anyway, met up with them over breakfast and one of my buddies who rode his brand new FZ-09 was telling me how fast it was, etc.  We got to talking about fast motorcycles and it spawned a conversation on my part about "useable power", and how I think the literbikes are super fast on track and at triple digit speeds, but from 0-100 his FZ-09 could most likely hang with the best of them.
 
It got me to thinking just how fast my FZ-07 is, and weather the mods I've made showed a noticeable difference.  Loud pipes make you *think* you have more performance and are going faster but is it really that or is it just more noise?
 
I was curious to see how much faster his FZ-09 was to my little FZ-07 so we did some roll-on tests, and the results were surprising.
 
The FZ-09 is bone stock.  
 
My FZ-07 isn't.  Performance mods include Akrapovic Ti exhaust w/o baffle, Power Commander PCV with custom tune, DNA air filter and air box cover, and 520 chain conversion with 45t rear sprocket (stock size is 43t).
 
Keep in mind a bone stock FZ-09 still makes like 30hp and 15 ft-lbs more than my modified  FZ-07.
 
We did roll-ons from 2nd gear at 20 mph, 3rd from 30 mph, 4th from 35 mph, and 5th from 40 mph.
 
In every case, I pulled 2-3 bike lengths ahead!!!  His jaw dropped, and so did mine.  I had no idea. 
 
Now having said that, when we would get to around 90mph the FZ-09 definitely has the legs and much more top end power.  He would come back strong and right around 100mph he would pass me and I couldn't keep up anymore.
 
We did one run in first gear starting at 5 mph, but it was a wash because I couldn't keep the front down with the 45t rear sprocket and neither could he, lol.
 
Which brought us back to our discussion about the literbikes, as we're both considering getting the new 2015 Yamaha R1.  In real world street conditions, are they really faster?  I don't mean riding around in 2nd gear towards their 14,000 redline on the highway, or downshifting a few times before taking off...
 
...I mean just tooling around, and then in the same gear having to get on it at normal highway speeds at say 55-80...are the supersport literbikes that much faster in those scenarios?  
 
I'm thinking not by much.  I think in the rev range that most of us ride in on the street, even on twisty canyon roads, the power delivery and tq of the FZ-09 and FZ-07 can definitely keep up.
 
It's been said the FZ-09 is just about untouchable at speeds anything under 100mph, and I believe it.  I've seen it for myself - it's wicked fast.  To be able to pull 2-3 bike lengths on one with my FZ-07 had us both scratching our heads...
 
Maybe I'll hold off on the R1 after all
 

 
- Paulie
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[YZEtc]

Interesting.
Does your buddy still like his bike?
 
I've owned two YZF-R1s (1998 and 2002) and two FZ-1s (2002 and 2003) in the past.
They were quite torquey at lower RPM, even with the overly-tall gearing they came with.
Can't vouch for any R1 newer than the 2002-2003 model.
I bet the 2015 YZF-R1 and YZF-R1M are awfully nice, but...
 
While I had fun on my 1,000cc bikes back then, the way I feel right now in 2015, you can keep em'.
For real.
Been there.
Done that.
In fact, if I were given one for free, I'd probably sell it for the first reasonable offer without so much as riding it.
I'd much rather be riding the small, light FZ-07 with it's great low-to-midrange engine.

[pgeldz]

LOL! He loves it
 
I've never really rode a literbike except for the California Superbike School. After riding it, I came away impressed but still stand by my thoughts...that while they are great on the track well above triple digit speeds, the acceleration at lower speeds in real word street conditions in the mid rpm range isn't that much better.
 
Sure, no doubt, it is faster - but didn't feel faster.  Maybe it's the thumpiness of the twin vs the smoothness of the 4, I dunno.
 
The recent reports on the new R1 suggest it will be the best of both worlds.  More power everywhere in the RPM range than you could shake a stick at, the best electronics package yet to aid you in going faster, and the handling of a nice lightweight 600.  Those factors are what's peaking my interest
 
Still, I'm totally enamored with my FZ-07 and don't plan to get rid of it.  And to know it's not as slow as some of my buds want to believe makes it all that much better.  Can't wait to see their faces when they find out their untouchable FZ-09 got touched, rubbed, and spanked
 
- Paulie
 
 
 

[Cruizin]

 
Is your friend a new rider? Cause I have played witha few FZ-07's on my FZ-09 and the results were quite different.
 
The FZ-09 also makes most of its power in the lower rpm's, it's a triple. Stock, the FZ-09 does 0-60 in 2.7 seconds.
 
The mods you have made so open the FZ-07 up quite a bit though.
 
Congrats on taking an FZ-09 down. Wish you had it on Video.
 
 

So I finally rode my bike this morning with some buddies of mine.  This whole week was like 75 degrees and sunny, and the one day I finally get to ride it's cloudy and 52 degrees out  UGG! 
LOL
 
Anyway, met up with them over breakfast and one of my buddies who rode his brand new FZ-09 was telling me how fast it was, etc.  We got to talking about fast motorcycles and it spawned a conversation on my part about "useable power", and how I think the literbikes are super fast on track and at triple digit speeds, but from 0-100 his FZ-09 could most likely hang with the best of them.
 
It got me to thinking just how fast my FZ-07 is, and weather the mods I've made showed a noticeable difference.  Loud pipes make you *think* you have more performance and are going faster but is it really that or is it just more noise?
 
I was curious to see how much faster his FZ-09 was to my little FZ-07 so we did some roll-on tests, and the results were surprising.
 
The FZ-09 is bone stock.  
 
My FZ-07 isn't.  Performance mods include Akrapovic Ti exhaust w/o baffle, Power Commander PCV with custom tune, DNA air filter and air box cover, and 520 chain conversion with 45t rear sprocket (stock size is 43t).
 
Keep in mind a bone stock FZ-09 still makes like 30hp and 15 ft-lbs more than my modified  FZ-07.
 
We did roll-ons from 2nd gear at 20 mph, 3rd from 30 mph, 4th from 35 mph, and 5th from 40 mph.
 
In every case, I pulled 2-3 bike lengths ahead!!!  His jaw dropped, and so did mine.  I had no idea. 
 
Now having said that, when we would get to around 90mph the FZ-09 definitely has the legs and much more top end power.  He would come back strong and right around 100mph he would pass me and I couldn't keep up anymore.
 
We did one run in first gear starting at 5 mph, but it was a wash because I couldn't keep the front down with the 45t rear sprocket and neither could he, lol.
 
Which brought us back to our discussion about the literbikes, as we're both considering getting the new 2015 Yamaha R1.  In real world street conditions, are they really faster?  I don't mean riding around in 2nd gear towards their 14,000 redline on the highway, or downshifting a few times before taking off...
 
...I mean just tooling around, and then in the same gear having to get on it at normal highway speeds at say 55-80...are the supersport literbikes that much faster in those scenarios?  
 
I'm thinking not by much.  I think in the rev range that most of us ride in on the street, even on twisty canyon roads, the power delivery and tq of the FZ-09 and FZ-07 can definitely keep up.
 
It's been said the FZ-09 is just about untouchable at speeds anything under 100mph, and I believe it.  I've seen it for myself - it's wicked fast.  To be able to pull 2-3 bike lengths on one with my FZ-07 had us both scratching our heads...
 
Maybe I'll hold off on the R1 after all
 

 
- Paulie
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[FT]

At this point, would you say that you have about the same money in your FZ07 as someone would have in a stock  FZ09?
 

[Cruizin]

The sprocket change is the fastest low end upgrade there is, and cheapest. That would allow you to beat a lot of liter bikes.
 

Is your friend a new rider? Cause I have played witha few FZ-07's on my FZ-09 and the results were quite different.
 
The FZ-09 also makes most of its power in the lower rpm's, it's a triple. Stock, the FZ-09 does 0-60 in 2.7 seconds.
 
The mods you have made so open the FZ-07 up quite a bit though.
 
Congrats on taking an FZ-09 down. Wish you had it on Video.
 
 

So I finally rode my bike this morning with some buddies of mine.  This whole week was like 75 degrees and sunny, and the one day I finally get to ride it's cloudy and 52 degrees out  UGG! 
LOL
 
Anyway, met up with them over breakfast and one of my buddies who rode his brand new FZ-09 was telling me how fast it was, etc.  We got to talking about fast motorcycles and it spawned a conversation on my part about "useable power", and how I think the literbikes are super fast on track and at triple digit speeds, but from 0-100 his FZ-09 could most likely hang with the best of them.
 
It got me to thinking just how fast my FZ-07 is, and weather the mods I've made showed a noticeable difference.  Loud pipes make you *think* you have more performance and are going faster but is it really that or is it just more noise?
 
I was curious to see how much faster his FZ-09 was to my little FZ-07 so we did some roll-on tests, and the results were surprising.
 
The FZ-09 is bone stock.  
 
My FZ-07 isn't.  Performance mods include Akrapovic Ti exhaust w/o baffle, Power Commander PCV with custom tune, DNA air filter and air box cover, and 520 chain conversion with 45t rear sprocket (stock size is 43t).
 
Keep in mind a bone stock FZ-09 still makes like 30hp and 15 ft-lbs more than my modified  FZ-07.
 
We did roll-ons from 2nd gear at 20 mph, 3rd from 30 mph, 4th from 35 mph, and 5th from 40 mph.
 
In every case, I pulled 2-3 bike lengths ahead!!!  His jaw dropped, and so did mine.  I had no idea. 
 
Now having said that, when we would get to around 90mph the FZ-09 definitely has the legs and much more top end power.  He would come back strong and right around 100mph he would pass me and I couldn't keep up anymore.
 
We did one run in first gear starting at 5 mph, but it was a wash because I couldn't keep the front down with the 45t rear sprocket and neither could he, lol.
 
Which brought us back to our discussion about the literbikes, as we're both considering getting the new 2015 Yamaha R1.  In real world street conditions, are they really faster?  I don't mean riding around in 2nd gear towards their 14,000 redline on the highway, or downshifting a few times before taking off...
 
...I mean just tooling around, and then in the same gear having to get on it at normal highway speeds at say 55-80...are the supersport literbikes that much faster in those scenarios?  
 
I'm thinking not by much.  I think in the rev range that most of us ride in on the street, even on twisty canyon roads, the power delivery and tq of the FZ-09 and FZ-07 can definitely keep up.
 
It's been said the FZ-09 is just about untouchable at speeds anything under 100mph, and I believe it.  I've seen it for myself - it's wicked fast.  To be able to pull 2-3 bike lengths on one with my FZ-07 had us both scratching our heads...
 
Maybe I'll hold off on the R1 after all
 

 
- Paulie
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[jon]

Keep in mind a bone stock FZ-09 still makes like 30hp and 15 ft-lbs more than my modified FZ-07.
 
Read more: http://fz07.org/thread/1894/roll-on-test-fz-09#ixzz3SXImjNot
 
I think that gives the answer, either your friend is not the most talented or his power mode was set to "B" if I recall wich is the least power output for wet conditions
 
 

[Cruizin]

The combo of the apparent riding ability of @pgeldzsprocket and especially the sprocket change is what did that FZ-09 in.
 
Rear or even front sprocket change and the low end power of the FZ-07 is deadly. I do sprocket changes before exhaust or suspension on alot of the bikes that I have ever ridden, but not on the FZ-09 yet. I had fueling to fix and new tunes for the kind of riding that I do. Idaho's Speed limit is 80mph and sometimes I fill the 45 L Backpack and ride to the out of state projects, but on weekends do mountain twisties.
 
 
 

[pgeldz]

 
Feb 22, 2015 16:36:06 GMT -8 Cruizin said:
 
Is your friend a new rider? Cause I have played witha few FZ-07's on my FZ-09 and the results were quite different.
 
The FZ-09 also makes most of its power in the lower rpm's, it's a triple. Stock, the FZ-09 does 0-60 in 2.7 seconds.
 
The mods you have made so open the FZ-07 up quite a bit though.
 
Congrats on taking an FZ-09 down. Wish you had it on Video.

 
 
No, he's very experienced actually. Been riding for like 40 years.
 
 
 

At this point, would you say that you have about the same money in your FZ07 as someone would have in a stock  FZ09?

No...much much more. The power mods I listed already put my FZ-07 above the purchase price of an FZ-09, and then with all the other mods...just lets say it gets exponentially more expensive from there. 
Is it cost effective? Of course not. I could have bought a much more powerful bike to begin with. Hell, the FZ-09 is more powerful already and with a pipe, fueling, and sprocket upgrade it would be a monster.
 
After reading all about the MT-07 when it was launched overseas, I told myself if it ever came to the US I'd have one. I had a vision for it when I first saw it and I'm determined to see it through.
 
I wanted it to replace my beloved and highly modified SV-650. I should have never sold that bike and when I saw the MT-07, I thought man, that is more than a suitable replacement. My naked race bike project will come to fruition
 
 
 
 
 

Keep in mind a bone stock FZ-09 still makes like 30hp and 15 ft-lbs more than my modified FZ-07. 
 
 
Read more: http://fz07.org/thread/1894/roll-on-test-fz-09#ixzz3SXImjNot
 
I think that gives the answer, either your friend is not the most talented or his power mode was set to "B" if I recall wich is the least power output for wet conditions
 

The combo of the apparent riding ability of @pgeldzsprocket and especially the sprocket change is what did that FZ-09 in.  
Rear or even front sprocket change and the low end power of the FZ-07 is deadly. I do sprocket changes before exhaust or suspension on alot of the bikes that I have ever ridden, but not on the FZ-09 yet. I had fueling to fix and new tunes for the kind of riding that I do. Idaho's Speed limit is 80mph and sometimes I fill the 45 L Backpack and ride to the out of state projects, but on weekends do mountain twisties.
 

Not sure what mode he was in...it was very dark and cloudy and starting to sprinkle so he could have very well been in B mode, not sure. I do know it has nothing to do with talent though for either one of us. It doesn't take a whole lot of talent to look at each other and turn your right wrist to the throttle stop on the count of three
 
I do agree though that the sprocket change is a great and cheap upgrade. The additional 10 ft-lbs of torque between 4-6K rpm from the Akra and custom tune certainly don't hurt either
 
- Paulie
 
 
 

[rick]

well, that was a fun read. And I'm not all that surprised. That 5% gearing change puts the 07 well better into it's torque curve and that's gonna make a huge difference in launching at the speed range you guys were running.
 
This would be just a seat of pants guess, but I can make another comparison for you - the fz07 and my 1000cc Aprilia Futura.
 
1st, gearing is really different. The Priller is geared to do 150 mph top speed where theFZ closer to 120 - maybe. So that's a sorta gearing advantage to the FZ. Weight advantage also goes to the FZ (in a big way - about 130 lbs worth). So, if you did a run with the Aprilia in 3rd and the FZ in 4th from around 40 mph (where both bikes are right around 4k RPM), I'd predict they'd run pretty darn even up until 80 or so where both bikes would still be in their same respective gears.
 
To quote a friend who owns both a heavily modified ZRX1200 Kaw and and 690 Duke, "light is right". The only reason I could see a need for more power than the FZ07 makes is if I spent a lot of time hauling a passenger. That doesn't happen much for me. But I do have the luxury of having a 2nd bike for that.
 
Gonna give that friend some time on my FZ this summer after it's fully run in. Maybe we'll just do that side-by-side with my Futura.
 

[pgeldz]

Well, just got to work and asked him. He wasn't in B mode. He was in standard mode. Not sure if standard mode cuts power or not, but I don't think so.
 
And just so you guys know, I wasn't trying to say that my FZ-07 is fast, or his FZ-09 is slow, or that I'm a great rider and he isn't.
 
We were just both surprised that my little FZ could more than keep up, and wanted to share those results with you guys.
 

 
- Paulie

[FT]

After test riding the DL 1000 and the DL 650 years ago, the 650 felt a lot better than it's big brother even though it only weighed about 14 pounds less; probably the weight of one muffler.
Same for the 09 vs the 07. Most riding is in the 20-80 MPH range and the 07 is strong there.
 

[lbv]

I'd take torque over HP any day of the week on cars driven on the street so with bikes, yeah same thing - I agree with your comment on 'useable power'.