R7 CP2 engine blown help

[youngmaavin 6]

Hello, everyone.
I've got a 2023 R7 with 2500 km on it.
Two days ago I took it to get dyno tuned after taking out EU 47hp restrictions (air filter and velocity stacks)
Today my engine blew up on the highway.
I was riding in 6th gear when my check engine light started blinking, oil light came on and the bike started rapidly loosing speed.
I pulled over immediately, shut off the engine, called a tow truck.

I turned the bike on one more time on the side of the road to see if it would start.
It's clearly running on one cylinder, smoking out of the exhaust and smells like oil, I will attach a video.
I think at least one cylinder is totally blown.
The tuner insists nothing could be wrong with the tune.

What do you hear from the video, any ideas?
Is the motor totally blown, what could be the issue?
Blown piston rings, injectors, vacuum problem maybe?

In order to change velocity stacks, I had to take out throttle bodies, disconnect vacuum hoses and injectors.
But the bike ran fine on the dyno and two days after that it was fine too, so I don't think I forgot to connect something, that would be apparent earlier.

[youngmaavin 6]

Here are two videos i took on the side of the road.
When I turned it on, there was no check engine and oil light present.
Also I checked the oil level, it was ok.

 

[Lone Wolf 127]

34 minutes ago, youngmaavin said:

... oil light came on and the bike started rapidly loosing speed.

... I checked the oil level, it was ok.

Wow. All I can say is there must have been a reason for the oil light to come on, coincident with the failure.

Something may have blocked the oil flow... If it was my bike I would drain and carefully inspect the oil. I would pull the spark plugs and get a boroscope to see if there is obvious damage to one of the cylinders. (AKA Endoscope, I got a cheap one that connects to phone)

If cylinders OK and you felt comfortable with cranking the engine I would put in fresh oil, crank it with plugs out and do a compression test.

Based on that, if compression low, you could isolate valve failure if present by putting a teaspoon of oil down the spark plug hole and crank it.

Edited March 11 by Lone Wolf

[Lone Wolf 127]

 

[Pursuvant 446]

43 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

...reason for the oil light to come on, coincident with the failure.

Something may have blocked the oil flow...  inspect the oil... and get a boroscope to see if there is obvious damage to one of the cylinders

If cylinders OK... fresh oil, crank it with plugs out and do a compression test.

Based on that, if compression low, you could isolate valve failure if present by putting a teaspoon of oil down the spark plug hole and crank it.

So much to like in your recommendation. Want to know what is the quantity of oil when drained

[M. Hausknecht 361]

Bummer. Long high wheelies will interrupt oil flow because the oil pickup gets uncovered. Damage to the upper end happens first. But assuming that isn't the issue, what sort of a tune did you get? If not a Power Commander-based tune, which flashing equipment was used and what base map? Some base maps are notoriously bad. The bad cylinder's exhaust pipe should be much cooler when the engine is running, which cylinder is it?  

[youngmaavin 6]

No wheelies done on  the bike, not even once.

I did take it to the track yesterday though with seemingly no issues.

Although i was thinking I kept hearing a weird sound on corner exit at full throttle.

Like some sort of tapping, similar to valve tap on these cp2 engines on cold start.

I took the plastics apart to inspect the connectors and vacuum hoses, everything was in place, nothing disconnected.

BUT, the airbox is full of oil from the breather, I'll attach another video.

Tomorrow morning I'll take the bike to the garage to read ECU codes and check the plugs/cylinders if possible. 

[Pursuvant 446]

14 minutes ago, M. Hausknecht said:

Bummer. Long high wheelies will interrupt oil flow because the oil pickup gets uncovered. Damage to the upper end happens first. But assuming that isn't the issue, what sort of a tune did you get? If not a Power Commander-based tune, which flashing equipment was used and what base map? Some base maps are notoriously bad. The bad cylinder's exhaust pipe should be much cooler when the engine is running, which cylinder is it?  

If something was not injested, 2wdw might be asked to do a post-mortem on the maps

[youngmaavin 6]

29 minutes ago, M. Hausknecht said:

Bummer. Long high wheelies will interrupt oil flow because the oil pickup gets uncovered. Damage to the upper end happens first. But assuming that isn't the issue, what sort of a tune did you get? If not a Power Commander-based tune, which flashing equipment was used and what base map? Some base maps are notoriously bad. The bad cylinder's exhaust pipe should be much cooler when the engine is running, which cylinder is it?  

Did a dyno tune, ECU was flashed with Woolich Racing software.

Tuner insists AFR and ignition were perfectly fine, no way to check that for me at the moment.

Don't know which cylinder is faulty, when I shut off the engine on the side of the road, everything was very hot, now everything's cooled down

Edited March 11 by youngmaavin

[youngmaavin 6]

Oil in the box

 

[Pursuvant 446]

Has the motor been opened up by dealer for any work like valve adjustment? Have you had the valve cover off for anything. Did the tuner open the motor? - or pulled the stacks off.? Did you put the stacks on yourself?

Very sympathetic to your tough situation 

[youngmaavin 6]

1 minute ago, Pursuvant said:

Has the motor been opened up by dealer for any work like valve adjustment? Have you had the valve cover off for anything. Did the tuner open the motor? - or pulled the stacks off.? Did you put the stacks on yourself?

Very sympathetic to your tough situation 

Yes, I pulled off the throttle bodies and injectors, to take out the airbox and replace restricted stacks to high output ones (both stock part numbers, not aftermarket).

Was a pretty straightforward job mechanically, just a pita to get everything off, not sure what I could catastrophically mess up there.

Engine internals weren't touched by anyone, I also plugged the intake holes when throttle bodies were taken out to make sure nothing fell in.

Bike is brand new, 2500 k, did the break in and first service properly.

[youngmaavin 6]

The only thing I am worried about thinking back on my job, is that I somehow messed up putting the injectors back in, resulting in improper fueling to one of the cylinders.

But then again, the bike made fine power on the dyno.

I called my tuner and when he heard how much oil was in the airbox he suggested that maybe somehow oil got onto one of the sparkplugs killing the cylinder.

He also said that from his experience catalytic converter can break under high load.

To me though both explanations wouldn't  provide a reason for oil light and bike smoking out the exhaust.

From my (limited) knowledge, those things point out to cylinder damage. 

[AP996 167]

1 hour ago, youngmaavin said:

Although i was thinking I kept hearing a weird sound on corner exit at full throttle.

Like some sort of tapping, similar to valve tap on these cp2 engines on cold start.

Sounds like too much ignition advance.

[M. Hausknecht 361]

The symptoms are consistent with: too much advance for fuel's octane, leading to a damaged piston and ring(s) (typically the #1 cylinder), and pieces of ring bouncing around damaging spark plug and perhaps a valve or two. But it could be a dropped valve due to a valve collet falling out (I've read of a few newish CP2 motors with this problem). This last would be Yamaha's fault unrelated to anything the owner or tuner did. 

[Pursuvant 446]

I do not wish to defame Woolich Racing in any way.

An R6 customer on a USA private website in 2019 wrote:

"woolich doesn't supply custom maps. just the stock map so you can return it to stock"

So question arises, what is the map source if any? Are dealers responsible for making their own maps?

EDIT: I think I mean "dealers" as tune shops or OEM mc dealers who buy into the whole Woolich package of flash/tune hardware - a "Woolich dealer" and then access to "Woolich licensed tune maps" to tune unlimited number of bikes.

 

[cornerslider 794]

1 hour ago, M. Hausknecht said:

The symptoms are consistent with: too much advance for fuel's octane, leading to a damaged piston and ring(s) (typically the #1 cylinder), and pieces of ring bouncing around damaging spark plug and perhaps a valve or two. But it could be a dropped valve due to a valve collet falling out (I've read of a few newish CP2 motors with this problem). This last would be Yamaha's fault unrelated to anything the owner or tuner did. 

I really hope that is the case.... I always thought the CP2 motor was pretty much bullet-proof??? I race a 2016 FZ-07, with 100% stock motor internals. I've done a Hordpower intake, ECU flash by 2WDW, and Akrapovic exhaust. I have about 16K on the clock. More than half those miles were "flogging- it" around a track.... Never missed a beat.

That being said, I agree with your assessment of a ring failure. That would cause the crankcase to pressurize, and blow oil into the air-box. That oil being displaced, might explain the oil light coming on. As @Pursuvant stated earlier, I'd be interested in how much oil comes out when it's drained.

I wish I new more about engine tuning/ignition advance, and how that causes a ring failure... I tried to "learn-it" with a PCV. After a couple of seasons, I determined that it's more efficient (for me), to trade my money- for knowledge/experience. I had 2WDW flash my ECU. My problems were instantly resolved.

Back to the OP... When you said a "tune", was that a piggy-back fuel controller tune (like a PVC), or was the ECU flashed? If it was a piggy-back fuel controller, and your ECU is still OEM.... Yamaha might cover this if you remove the fuel controller? I've never had a good experience with warranty work, but with a newer model R7, with low KM/miles- I'd definitely try!!! Based on your post, I don't think you did anything "wrong"/out of the ordinary.

Let us know how this turns out.... I'm following this to see how the story ends-

 

[youngmaavin 6]

1 hour ago, M. Hausknecht said:

The symptoms are consistent with: too much advance for fuel's octane, leading to a damaged piston and ring(s) (typically the #1 cylinder), and pieces of ring bouncing around damaging spark plug and perhaps a valve or two. But it could be a dropped valve due to a valve collet falling out (I've read of a few newish CP2 motors with this problem). This last would be Yamaha's fault unrelated to anything the owner or tuner did. 

Yes, honestly, as much as I don't want to believe that, everything I know about engines screams ignition to me as well.

That in turns messes up the piston.

Any way to confirm this theory tomorrow, when I'm in the garage?

Particular burn color pattern or something?

[youngmaavin 6]

Also, how feasible is it to repair one cylinder if another one's good?

I guess resleeving, since cylinder walls will surely be scored, new piston, etc.

I live in Israel, where this bike costs 18 thousand dollars (import taxes) .

I can not even begin to imagine how much replacement engine + labor cost will be, if necessary.

[youngmaavin 6]

1 hour ago, Pursuvant said:

I do not wish to defame Woolich Racing in any way.

An R6 customer on a USA private website in 2019 wrote:

"woolich doesn't supply custom maps. just the stock map so you can return it to stock"

So question arises, what is the map source if any? Are dealers responsible for making their own maps?

Sorry, not sure I totally understand the question.

I didn't tune the bike at the dealer, it was a private tuner.

He says he works with a lot of tuning companies from around the world, I'm not sure if those maps were provided by Woolich or if he sourced them himself.

From what I saw he loaded a base map, then made some custom adjustments.

[youngmaavin 6]

10 minutes ago, cornerslider said:

Back to the OP... When you said a "tune", was that a piggy-back fuel controller tune (like a PVC), or was the ECU flashed? If it was a piggy-back fuel controller, and your ECU is still OEM.... Yamaha might cover this if you remove the fuel controller? I've never had a good experience with warranty work, but with a newer model R7, with low KM/miles- I'd definitely try!!! Based on your post, I don't think you did anything "wrong"/out of the ordinary.

Let us know how this turns out.... I'm following this to see how the story ends-

 

Bike was ECU flashed by a private tuner with Woolich Racing software.

If the engine damage is as catastrophic as it seems, I might try to return it back to stock and try to get some warranty work for it by the dealer.

Not too hopeful for that outcome though...

[M. Hausknecht 361]

12 minutes ago, youngmaavin said:

Yes, honestly, as much as I don't want to believe that, everything I know about engines screams ignition to me as well.

That in turns messes up the piston.

Any way to confirm this theory tomorrow, when I'm in the garage?

Particular burn color pattern or something?

I've had the misfortune to experience what I've described. Pull the plugs and inspect them. The bad cylinder's plug should NOT look normal. Mine had little bits of melted aluminum on it (could be on the insulator nose and/or the ground strap and center electrode), and the bits might be shiny, gray, or even nearly black. And it looked beat up by the bits of piston ring bouncing around in the combustion chamber.

If you dropped a valve, the plug could look really beat up (yeah, I've done that too, once or twice, but not with the CP2). 

 

[M. Hausknecht 361]

25 minutes ago, youngmaavin said:

Also, how feasible is it to repair one cylinder if another one's good?

I guess resleeving, since cylinder walls will surely be scored, new piston, etc.

I live in Israel, where this bike costs 18 thousand dollars (import taxes) .

I can not even begin to imagine how much replacement engine + labor cost will be, if necessary.

You can get a cylinder repaired, and a head too, but a used motor could be less costly. The engine doesn't have sleeves and there isn't enough material for sleeving. Repairs to the bore are done by machining and replating the cylinder. Combustion chamber damage is repaired by welding and remachining, and likely installing new valve seats. I went to these guys and they did a  great job:

Millennium Technologies

---

Millennium Technologies provides repair and maintenance services for cylinders and cylinder heads, and manufactures nickel silicon...

 I damaged a ported head and wanted to salvage it, otherwise I wouldn't have spent the money repairing stuff. As it was, I still bought a used motor for about $1800US and built that one up while my initial motor was out of commission. 

[M. Hausknecht 361]

44 minutes ago, cornerslider said:

I really hope that is the case.... I always thought the CP2 motor was pretty much bullet-proof??? I race a 2016 FZ-07, with 100% stock motor internals. I've done a Hordpower intake, ECU flash by 2WDW, and Akrapovic exhaust. I have about 16K on the clock. More than half those miles were "flogging- it" around a track.... Never missed a beat.

That being said, I agree with your assessment of a ring failure. That would cause the crankcase to pressurize, and blow oil into the air-box. That oil being displaced, might explain the oil light coming on. As @Pursuvant stated earlier, I'd be interested in how much oil comes out when it's drained.

I wish I new more about engine tuning/ignition advance, and how that causes a ring failure... I tried to "learn-it" with a PCV. After a couple of seasons, I determined that it's more efficient (for me), to trade my money- for knowledge/experience. I had 2WDW flash my ECU. My problems were instantly resolved.

Back to the OP... When you said a "tune", was that a piggy-back fuel controller tune (like a PVC), or was the ECU flashed? If it was a piggy-back fuel controller, and your ECU is still OEM.... Yamaha might cover this if you remove the fuel controller? I've never had a good experience with warranty work, but with a newer model R7, with low KM/miles- I'd definitely try!!! Based on your post, I don't think you did anything "wrong"/out of the ordinary.

Let us know how this turns out.... I'm following this to see how the story ends-

 

Too much advance, piston damage leading to ring land destruction, leading to upper piston ring breaking in multiple pieces and bouncing around:

[Pursuvant 446]

3 hours ago, youngmaavin said:

Sorry, not sure I totally understand the question.

I didn't tune the bike at the dealer, it was a private tuner.

He says he works with a lot of tuning companies from around the world, I'm not sure if those maps were provided by Woolich or if he sourced them himself.

From what I saw he loaded a base map, then made some custom adjustments.

I edited my original post to make it clear(er). I mean is "private tuner" a full blown "Woolich dealer" with the hardware/software/licensing to access all Woolich resources and can flash unlimited bikes.

Where the map set came from is my question, was it a complete "set" of maps for R7, and what got altered.

Wishing the best outcome possible for you, I can feel the pain this creates...