swess88 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Hey guys, first time posting on a forum, but I really want to try to get a firm answer before I go tearing into my bike. So, I went to go for my first ride of the season today, and my bike (2018 mt07) doesn't want to shift out of 2nd. It goes into first and second okay (maybe a little hard going into first, but it's always done this and from what I understand, that is normal for these bikes), but when you try to go into or out of any other gear, it doesn't want to go. I can get it to shift if I first move the lever slightly up before downshifting or slightly down before upsetting. I was looking at the service manual, and I think my problem may be a broken or worn out shift shaft spring. Has anyone else had this issue or know how to correct it? Like I said, I'm probably going to open her up this weekend and get a look at the internals, but I've never done anything more than basic maintenance and upgrades to my bike, never had the crankcase open or anything, so I'm a little anxious about doing it, though it looks relatively straightforward. Any assistance with this is greatly appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Jim Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) Have you checked all the joints in the external shift linkage? Is everything tight? If it has play where you show in the photo, check the bolt that tightens the arm on the shift shaft... the one at the end of your long arrow. Welcome to the board, swess88! Edited March 2, 2023 by Triple Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swess88 Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 Hey, thanks for the quick reply! And yes, everything external is nice and tight, which is what is making me think its that spring (or some other internal component.) The play is in the shaft coming out of the engine. Its got about 1/4" of rotational play in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 1 hour ago, swess88 said: ... doesn't want to shift out of 2nd. How many miles on the bike? Could the "first ride of the season today" result in some unfamiliarity with stiff boots? I have some higher end Sidi boots that are stiff as heck. You may try a short ride with tennis shoes and see if that helps. Your oil level OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Evill_Ed Posted March 3, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted March 3, 2023 A couple of things. First, make sure all the linkage points are lubricated and move freely. Second, you indicate that it shifts if you move the lever up and down. You need to remove all pressure from the shifter between shifts. If you shift up to second and do not let the shifter fully return (like resting on your boot for instance) it will not move up again to the next gear. Think of the shift lever as a ratchet, it needs to move all the way back to a free postion to click onto the next notch on the shift drum. This happened to me on my track bike when I got new boots. The boot held pressure on the shift lever and I could not shift up to third. I just needed to adjust the angle of the shift lever by loosening the jamb nuts on the linkage rod. Maybe check that. I doubt the shift return spring is broken, that is not a common weak spot. Hope this helps. Ed 3 "Do not let this bad example influence you, follow only what is good" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swess88 Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 So, the bike has just about 6,000 miles on it, so still pretty fresh. It has been well maintained and has good oil. It's not anything to do with footwear either, I was wearing my very broken in Alpinestars riding shoes. Lol. And yes, all pressure is off of the shifter between shifts. I have tried adjusting the linkage rod and everything else external there, but it doesn't do anything to fix the play I have in the shift shaft itself. That is what makes me think it may be that torsion spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider360 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 I would try putting the stock linkage back on before ripping her open! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 1 hour ago, swess88 said: So, the bike has just about 6,000 miles on it, so still pretty fresh. ... think it may be that torsion spring. I have never heard of transmission trouble on any motorcycle with low miles like that. I would be extremely reluctant to do open heart surgery. Are you the original owner? You mention that it doesn't "want" to shift out of 2nd, but "I can get it to shift if I first move the lever slightly up before downshifting or slightly down before up..." so that is called preloading the shifter, and if you do that - does it ever shift up to 3rd and above? You are 1000% certain that the clutch is disengaging, able to start, take off while in first gear? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Jim Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 8 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: "I can get it to shift if I first move the lever slightly up before downshifting or slightly down before up..." so that is called preloading the shifter... I would think that preloading the shifter would be moving the lever slightly down before downshifting, and up before upshifting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swess88 Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 12 hours ago, Rider360 said: I would try putting the stock linkage back on before ripping her open! Good idea, I will definitely try that, just to rule out any issues with the rearsets, though I don't think that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swess88 Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 12 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: I have never heard of transmission trouble on any motorcycle with low miles like that. I would be extremely reluctant to do open heart surgery. Are you the original owner? You mention that it doesn't "want" to shift out of 2nd, but "I can get it to shift if I first move the lever slightly up before downshifting or slightly down before up..." so that is called preloading the shifter, and if you do that - does it ever shift up to 3rd and above? You are 1000% certain that the clutch is disengaging, able to start, take off while in first gear? I agree about the low miles, and it's unlikely for that spring to wear or break in this time, but I've seen stranger things. I fix automatic carwashes for a living, and I've seen some weird stuff break that just shouldn't. Anyway, I can shift through all of the gears, it's just that to get 3rd through 6th, I have to manipulate the shifter as I described in order to get it to shift. And while not 1000% sure about the clutch engaging FULLY, I'm like 99% sure. Lol. Any advice on how to check this, and make sure it's engaging fully, other than feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swess88 Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 I tried to share a video to show better what it is doing and the play in the shift shaft, but it limits uploads to 3.91mb, so no video. If anyone can tell me how to post a video, and thinks it might be helpful, let me know how and I'll do that. Thanks for all the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Evill_Ed Posted March 3, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted March 3, 2023 27 minutes ago, swess88 said: I tried to share a video to show better what it is doing and the play in the shift shaft, but it limits uploads to 3.91mb, so no video. If anyone can tell me how to post a video, and thinks it might be helpful, let me know how and I'll do that. Thanks for all the help! You can add it to Youtube and then post the link. Ed 1 "Do not let this bad example influence you, follow only what is good" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, swess88 said: ... And while not 1000% sure about the clutch engaging FULLY, I'm like 99% sure. Actually my focus was if it was fully Disengaging (as a possible issue for shifting). When you pull in the clutch fully at a stop, does it fully disengage, the friction zone in the normal area you would expect? 4 hours ago, Triple Jim said: I would think that preloading the shifter would be moving the lever slightly down before downshifting, and up before upshifting. Exactly, and that is what I assumed the OP meant to say as there was a typo - odd word in his sentence (figured voice recognition typo or something). To the OP, if you are saying "I can get it to shift if I first move the lever slightly up before downshifting or slightly down before upsetting. " then that is not going to be your friend. You want to do what Jim said. The issue is upshifting beyond 2nd gear, so you would do this: hand off the clutch, apply slight UPWARD pressure on the shift lever. Pull in the clutch as you increase the UPWARD pressure on shift lever and it should slide into gear. You really shouldn't have to do that on a bike with only 6,000 miles, but it may be sort of a diagnostic. I find the tranny on this bike to be great, and Yamaha's in general have typically good transmissions. But for any bike that has rough shifting, applying some preload will help the shift happen. I have seen older motorcycles get a false neutral in higher gears (rider lazy or whatever) and it will act up until everything gets back in the right place, then no further issues, no damages. Edited March 3, 2023 by Lone Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 I don't have rearsets, but visualizing an upshift - seems that angle is going to tighten to nothing moving. Maybe as a diagnostic, you could lengthen the rod adjustment so the angle is more like 90 degrees to the lever and see if it will shift normally. Or as Rider360 said, put the stock linkage back on as a diagnostic. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElGonzales Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Yes, this mechanism reacts sensitively to unfavorable geometry. By the way, can the footpegs fold up when they touch the ground? They seem so long and immobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 (edited) My thoughts here ... The shift lever has free play until you hit the "ceiling" at which point you will then begin to shift gears. This is both when upshifting and down shifting and is normal. If you are hesitant / delicate when shifting it tends to feel resistant to shift, though if you are deliberate (not rough) then it should shift solidly and smoothly with a firm click or clunk when going into first gear. If there is excessive resistance to shifting, then I would suspect that the clutch needs adjusting and may not be fully engaging. Also looking at the photo, I am inclined to think that the threaded tube of your rearset may be extended too far (not having enough threads engaged inside the tube) causing it to flex or bind. I spent a good amount of time fine tuning my rearsets when I installed them and getting that tube just right was one of the challenging parts. FYI: you may be aware, but pulling the top portion of the linkage off of the spline and rotating counter clockwise will "shorten" the tube section allowing for more thread engagement. Good luck! Edited March 3, 2023 by Zephyr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted March 3, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted March 3, 2023 My gut says it's linkage issue... A bike with 6K on the clock most likely won't have shifting/transmission problems. I would try what others said, and put the OEM shifter/footpeg back on and try it. If you have rear stand for it, you could remove the linkage (shift rod), and rotate spline that goes into the transmission by hand. If it shifts without shift rod in place, then it's the linkage. You want the shift rod to rotate side-to-side without binding. Good luck- ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swess88 Posted March 5, 2023 Author Share Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) Update... ITS FIXED! Thanks for all the comments and help. I took the suggestion of putting the oem shifter back on to isolate the issue and verify if it was external or internal. The bike shifted fine, so external. Something I had noticed when swapping them, the shifter on my new rearsets didn't move nearly as easily as the oem. Found the problem...i had the bolt going through the rearsets too tight, causing too much resistance for the shift shaft spring to overcome to being it back to position between shifts. I put a little white lithium grease between the shifter/spacers, a little more loctite on the bolt, then put it on, with a little less torque so that it had a out the same resistance as stock. Shifting smooth as butter now. Thanks again for the assist, I hope I can return the favor one day. I saw a couple other posts with similar issues, hopefully this helps anybody going forward that deals with this. Edited March 5, 2023 by swess88 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted March 5, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted March 5, 2023 This makes me smile!!! Generally speaking, when it comes to buying aftermarket components, you get what you pay for.... I don't mean this in a "passive-aggressive" manor. "Bargain" components that have ANYTHING to do with shifting/controls can sometimes yield negative results... Glad you didn't have to tear apart your transmission- ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, swess88 said: ITS FIXED! ... the bolt going through the rearsets too tight, causing too much resistance for the shift shaft spring to overcome to being it back to position between shifts. In a perfect world, the design would allow for that bolt to be tightened as much as you want. It could tighten on a metal tube, with the lever free to move within a bearing. They gave you nice bearings for the adjustable shaft to the transmission but you got shafted on the pivot for the lever. Edited March 6, 2023 by Lone Wolf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Jim Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 (edited) Yes, it should be designed so that tightening the bolt doesn't restrict movement. Maybe the problem is something simple like a tolerance stack. If so, it might be possible to file a few thousandths off something or put a thin shim washer under something, and eliminate the trouble. If I were the manufacturer and/or seller of the product, I'd appreciate hearing this story. Edited March 6, 2023 by Triple Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royales83 Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 On 3/5/2023 at 12:30 PM, swess88 said: Update... ITS FIXED! Thanks for all the comments and help. I took the suggestion of putting the oem shifter back on to isolate the issue and verify if it was external or internal. The bike shifted fine, so external. Something I had noticed when swapping them, the shifter on my new rearsets didn't move nearly as easily as the oem. Found the problem...i had the bolt going through the rearsets too tight, causing too much resistance for the shift shaft spring to overcome to being it back to position between shifts. I put a little white lithium grease between the shifter/spacers, a little more loctite on the bolt, then put it on, with a little less torque so that it had a out the same resistance as stock. Shifting smooth as butter now. Thanks again for the assist, I hope I can return the favor one day. I saw a couple other posts with similar issues, hopefully this helps anybody going forward that deals with this. I have a similar problem that has just appeared and I also have aftermarket rearsets (Woodcraft). My shifter is loose when I downshift into 1st gear. Are you talking about this screw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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