Quality radiator or junk?

[50Joe]

I'm looking for a radiator that has a bit more volume than OEM for greater cooling efficiency. Is this ebay radiator junk or good to go?

Aluminum Radiator for Yamaha FZ07 FZ-07 FZ 07 ABS MT07 MT-07 2015-2017 2016

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Fits : 2015 2016 2017 Yamaha FZ07. Stronger & higher capacity than your OEM/Factory radiator. All aluminum alloy construction...

 

[Triple Jim]

I'm curious... did you ever have any signs of the stock one not cooling enough?  The way mine runs in hot weather I can't imagine needing a bigger one.

[50Joe]

Just now, Triple Jim said:

I'm curious... did you ever have any signs of the stock one not cooling enough?  The way mine runs in hot weather I can't imagine needing a bigger one.

I race in the Southeast where summer temps are in the 90's but also high humidity. While the engine never over heated it got really warm. I've seen around 210 degrees or so. My racebike is a converted street bike bought at auction that was totaled. All the major stuff was straight. The OEM radiator is still in use today but it is bent from the street crash. So, it's sort of a two for one deal. My OCD doesn't like seeing a bent radiator on there and if I can improve performance - why not?

[Triple Jim]

Well, 210 is a good running temperature.  Engine wear is lower there than at, say, 180F.  Humid air works just as well as dry air for engine cooling.

 

[Pursuvant]

Just now, Triple Jim said:

Well, 210 is a good running temperature.  Engine wear is lower there than at, say, 180F.  Humid air works just as well as dry air for engine cooling.

 

I got that religion way back in the olden tymes, said a little different - "motor only wears out when it's warming up", and that's why I pass it on when someone is around who could use that info.

But maybe Joe's thoughts are about at what temperature does the bike make it's best power ? He probably likes cool intake air in the morning, and he instinctively knows cylinder head temp has a sweet spot (a range of temps that are more profitable).

[50Joe]

Just now, Pursuvant said:

I got that religion way back in the olden tymes, said a little different - "motor only wears out when it's warming up", and that's why I pass it on when someone is around who could use that info.

But maybe Joe's thoughts are about at what temperature does the bike make it's best power ? He probably likes cool intake air in the morning, and he instinctively knows cylinder head temp has a sweet spot (a range of temps that are more profitable).

I come from the land of 2-strokes and intimately know where those run best. I'm now racing as a paraplegic so a fuel injected, push button start 4-stroke with a charging system is what I now need. So, while having ridden 4-strokes for decades on the street, racing one is a different ball game and I'm still in learning mode. What are your thoughts on the radiator they list for sale? Main reason I'm interested to be honest is mine is bent and I'm rather OCD so every time I look at the bike with the fairing off it really bugs me. Having a bit of extra capacity seemed like a good idea too. But?????

 

[50Joe]

Just now, Triple Jim said:

Well, 210 is a good running temperature.  Engine wear is lower there than at, say, 180F.  Humid air works just as well as dry air for engine cooling.

 

You provide great info. Thanks. See my comment one post above. What are your thoughts on this radiator?

[stickshift]

1 hour ago, 50Joe said:

Is this ebay radiator junk or good to go?

I'd be suspicious of its performance given the price. Based on the seller's feedback, it's likely to have been made for cheap cost in China.

I'd be inclined not to change the radiator unless it's overheating.

There's always the option to run a bigger R6 radiator.

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by stickshift

[50Joe]

Just now, stickshift said:

I'd be suspicious of its performance given the price. Based on the seller's feedback, it's likely to have been made for cheap cost in China.

I'd be inclined not to change the radiator unless it's overheating.

There's always the option to run a bigger R6 radiator.

 

Looks like a possible option I'll keep in mind.

[shinyribs]

That radiator might hold more fluid, but it won't cool as good as OEM for a couple of reasons. 

1: Aluminum is a heat sink but it's terrible at giving up heat. Copper and brass radiators cool much better. 

2: The rows and fins appear coarser than OEM, resulting in less surface area both inside and outside of the radiator. You'll have less coolant in contact with the radiator, even if it holds more volume overall. 

My FZ07 radiator is nearly ( if not exactly ) the same size as the radiator on my FZ09. The 09 is....what?...another 40-50hp?....and the radiator keeps my bike cool in humid Southern traffic. 

I believe the heat exchanger/ radiator portion of the 07 is oversized for the task, and that's good. The fans don't even kick on until 220°f as stock, so 210 isn't hurting the bike. Aluminum doesn't melt until over 1200° but most alloys can start losing strength around 400°, so you're far from warping any engine castings.  

Four strokes feel hotter to ride than two strokes, as silly as that may sound. I don't have a good reasoning for it, but I've noticed it time and again riding different dirt bikes. I think the overall larger mass of the 4t just retains and radiates heat more noticably than a compact little 2t. 

All that said, to answer your initial question, I've known lots of guys to run eBay rads after bashing up the originals on their dirt bikes. I haven't known anyone to get a bad one yet. I have two dirt bikes now that had eBay rads on them when I bought them and they've been just fine. Actually, they usually seem a little beefier than the originals due to using thick gauge sheet metal in their construction. 

[Pursuvant]

1 hour ago, shinyribs said:

That radiator might hold more fluid, but it won't cool as good as OEM for a couple of reasons. 

1: Aluminum is a heat sink but it's terrible at giving up heat. Copper and brass radiators cool much better. 

2: The rows and fins appear coarser than OEM, resulting in less surface area both inside and outside of the radiator. You'll have less coolant in contact with the radiator, even if it holds more volume overall. 

My FZ07 radiator is nearly ( if not exactly ) the same size as the radiator on my FZ09. The 09 is....what?...another 40-50hp?....and the radiator keeps my bike cool in humid Southern traffic. 

I believe the heat exchanger/ radiator portion of the 07 is oversized for the task, and that's good. The fans don't even kick on until 220°f as stock, so 210 isn't hurting the bike. Aluminum doesn't melt until over 1200° but most alloys can start losing strength around 400°, so you're far from warping any engine castings.  

Four strokes feel hotter to ride than two strokes, as silly as that may sound. I don't have a good reasoning for it, but I've noticed it time and again riding different dirt bikes. I think the overall larger mass of the 4t just retains and radiates heat more noticably than a compact little 2t. 

All that said, to answer your initial question, I've known lots of guys to run eBay rads after bashing up the originals on their dirt bikes. I haven't known anyone to get a bad one yet. I have two dirt bikes now that had eBay rads on them when I bought them and they've been just fine. Actually, they usually seem a little beefier than the originals due to using thick gauge sheet metal in their construction. 

When I have a bike problem, I always hope you will jump in. Damn fine observations there @shinyribs

[Pursuvant]

6 hours ago, 50Joe said:

I come from the land of 2-strokes and intimately know where those run best. I'm now racing as a paraplegic so a fuel injected, push button start 4-stroke with a charging system is what I now need. So, while having ridden 4-strokes for decades on the street, racing one is a different ball game and I'm still in learning mode. What are your thoughts on the radiator they list for sale? Main reason I'm interested to be honest is mine is bent and I'm rather OCD so every time I look at the bike with the fairing off it really bugs me. Having a bit of extra capacity seemed like a good idea too. But?????

 

I always remember you 50Joe. You're a moto man with more guts & willpower than Godzilla.

[50Joe]

Looks like I'll just keep my slightly bent OEM radiator in place until I find a good deal on a straight OEM radiator.

[wollerms]

Or call up these folks to see what a fix would cost. I sent them my SV650's radiator that had a leak and they fixed it just fine for about $145 that includes shipping.  There FAQ's page answers alot of questions on repair.

https://www.motorcycleradiators.com/

[cornerslider]

21 hours ago, 50Joe said:

I'm looking for a radiator that has a bit more volume than OEM for greater cooling efficiency. Is this ebay radiator junk or good to go?

Aluminum Radiator for Yamaha FZ07 FZ-07 FZ 07 ABS MT07 MT-07 2015-2017 2016

---

Fits : 2015 2016 2017 Yamaha FZ07. Stronger & higher capacity than your OEM/Factory radiator. All aluminum alloy construction...

 

I bought a similar one off eBay for my track-only R3, I think it had 15-20% more volume. I'm a Journeyman Pipefitter/Welder, and I can tell you the workmanship on the radiators coming from China is surprisingly GOOD!!! I'd venture to say they are BETTER quality than the OEM radiator! I run my R3 on-track with no cooling fan, and had ZERO issues. I'm still running the OEM radiator on my "07", and on a  90+ degree day, (on-track) I'm running 200-205 degrees. I'm running "engine Ice" coolant, which doesn't transfer heat as efficiently as glycol, or even water. It gives you the "illusion" of running cooler, but it actually tricks the temp gauge, to show a cooler temperature (BRILLIANT marketing ). I think it's probably safe to say I'm  actually in the 210 degree neighborhood as well... I don't like it, but most the folks around the paddock are running 200-210 degrees on an 07. I'd say pull-the-trigger on this radiator, and see what it does for your temps? I used to help @mossrider pit at MotoAmerica. He was having cooling issues, and bought one of these eBay radiators, and had good results. It turns out he had a crack one the the headers that was blowing hot exhaust gasses on the back side of the radiator . Maybe check your header for cracks? Let us know what you find out, if you buy one of the eBay radiators.

[cornerslider]

10 hours ago, shinyribs said:

That radiator might hold more fluid, but it won't cool as good as OEM for a couple of reasons. 

1: Aluminum is a heat sink but it's terrible at giving up heat. Copper and brass radiators cool much better. 

2: The rows and fins appear coarser than OEM, resulting in less surface area both inside and outside of the radiator. You'll have less coolant in contact with the radiator, even if it holds more volume overall. 

My FZ07 radiator is nearly ( if not exactly ) the same size as the radiator on my FZ09. The 09 is....what?...another 40-50hp?....and the radiator keeps my bike cool in humid Southern traffic. 

I believe the heat exchanger/ radiator portion of the 07 is oversized for the task, and that's good. The fans don't even kick on until 220°f as stock, so 210 isn't hurting the bike. Aluminum doesn't melt until over 1200° but most alloys can start losing strength around 400°, so you're far from warping any engine castings.  

Four strokes feel hotter to ride than two strokes, as silly as that may sound. I don't have a good reasoning for it, but I've noticed it time and again riding different dirt bikes. I think the overall larger mass of the 4t just retains and radiates heat more noticably than a compact little 2t. 

All that said, to answer your initial question, I've known lots of guys to run eBay rads after bashing up the originals on their dirt bikes. I haven't known anyone to get a bad one yet. I have two dirt bikes now that had eBay rads on them when I bought them and they've been just fine. Actually, they usually seem a little beefier than the originals due to using thick gauge sheet metal in their construction. 

The "Pipefitter" in me is curious (we do heating & cooling). I have nothing but respect for you on this forum, and you always have really sound advise for all members ... While I agree that aluminum is great "heat-sink", as long as it is taking heat away from the engine, that seems like a step in the right direction (even though it may not give up the heat as effeciently as other materials). It seems to me that as long as the heat is being removed from the engine, that is the "end-game"... I REALLY do NOT want to start an online debate/-show.... Maybe I don't know what I don't know???? I'm happy to hear from anyone on this topic -

[shinyribs]

On 10/25/2022 at 2:23 AM, cornerslider said:

The "Pipefitter" in me is curious (we do heating & cooling). I have nothing but respect for you on this forum, and you always have really sound advise for all members ... While I agree that aluminum is great "heat-sink", as long as it is taking heat away from the engine, that seems like a step in the right direction (even though it may not give up the heat as effeciently as other materials). It seems to me that as long as the heat is being removed from the engine, that is the "end-game"... I REALLY do NOT want to start an online debate/-show.... Maybe I don't know what I don't know???? I'm happy to hear from anyone on this topic -

Impossible to start a poop show. Im always open to learn something new, especially if it's something that I'm doing wrong. Debating gets a bad rep. Learning is good. 

Try to explain without rambling too much. Back in the drag racing days ( cars) we used to shoot for really consistent engine temps for tuning repeatability. Electric water pumps and fans were the ticket as it wasn't always possible to run the engine in order to run the cooling system. It was always a struggle to manage temps without sucking up too much battery power to restart the engine on the line reliably. I noticed pretty quick that the aluminum headed cars were harder to cool and couldn't figure out what was up. I thought it was the odd temp sensor location some aluminum heads used and didn't think too much if it. 

Had one dragster that got swapped from iron to aluminum heads and was unloading it one night after hauling a couple hours back home. Dragsters are frail things with nothing beefy to push against and I always moved that car around by pushing on the cylinder heads. But I scalded my hands that night. Never crossed my mind that the heads might still be hot as I'd been doing that same routine for years, but those aluminum heads held the heat in them all that time. Real eyeopener. Pre-intenet days, but I started mentioning it to different people. Most of them wondering why the hell I was telling them, probably. But one guy ended up being a retired material scientist for DuPont. His eyes lit up and he got to talk about his passion with a stranger.

Can't pretend to remember everything he told me, but my take away was aluminum is like a sponge with heat. Soaks it up great, but doesn't want to release it. So, it'll pull the heat out of the coolant just fine , but it doesn't want to pass that heat to the air moving through the radiator. Obviously aluminum radiators DO work, but they can't shed heat as well as brass finned rads, and you can make brass fins thinner - therefore fitting more in a given space. 

So, to your point, and how it was explained to me: There's comes a point where aluminum becomes heat soaked. If it can't shed it's heat in to the air fast enough then you start getting to the point where the body of the radiator is as hot as the coolant and you end up just passing uncooled coolant round and round the system. 

Im HVAC myself. I'm sure as a pipe fitter your familiar with copper tube baseboard radiators with those aluminum fins pressed over the tubes. I believe that's strictly a manufacturing technique as no other material would "stretch" in to place so well without requiring extra bonding procedures. Plus, as things heat up, the aluminum will expand quicker and actually clamp to the copper even firmer. Contrary to intuition, air conditioning coils don't cool your home by allowing air to blow over a cold coil. Rather, they actually absorb the heat that is in the air in to the aluminum fins, then pass that heat through the refrigerant where the outdoor unit expels it. Reverse that system, and you get a heat pump: absorbs outdoor heat and dumps it in to your duct system. All made possible because aluminum can absorb heat so well. If those radiators were copper/brass then the systems lose a ton of efficiency. Manufacturers experimented long ago and found out it just didn't work. 

 

Sorry for writing a book, just trying to explain things how they were taught to me. 100% open to being wrong. I certainly didn't invent any of these concepts myself

 

 

[cornerslider]

I understand what you are saying, and it kind of makes sense. I've always "struggled" with the concept of a refrigerator not "cooling", but "removing-heat". I'm slightly dangerous as I have a little bit knowledge, and think I know more than I do -

[Pursuvant]

10 hours ago, shinyribs said:

...you start getting to the point where the body of the radiator is as hot as the coolant and you end up just passing uncooled coolant round and round the system...

So from ease of use perspective, Maximo + Water Wetter, or distilled water + Water Wetter, or just Maximo or just Engine Ice, or pee on spark plugs?

Side note, I gave up pee-ing on spark plugs after accident pee-ing on electric fence

[balkor2]

Just now, Pursuvant said:

So from ease of use perspective, Maximo + Water Wetter, or distilled water + Water Wetter, or just Maximo or just Engine Ice, or pee on spark plugs?

Side note, I gave up pee-ing on spark plugs after accident pee-ing on electric fence

[FZ not MT]

On 10/24/2022 at 7:42 AM, shinyribs said:

The fans don't even kick on until 220°f as stock, so 210 isn't hurting the bike

Be aware that you can also alter when the fan kicks in.

2WDW tweaked my FZ-07 so the fan kicks in at 205° when they did my ECU flash.

 

[shinyribs]

The previous owner of my 09 had the ECU reprogrammed to bring the fan on early. It absolutely sucks.

 

My 07 rarely kicks the fan on at 220. As soon as the light turns green and to you roll away the temps drop right down. I'm taking about sitting in traffic in hot, Southern summers. The rare few times it kicked in over 30,000+ miles, it was surprising how much heat gets blasted at you.

 

My 09 wants to kick the fan on at 190, which means I'm CONSTANTLY being blasted with hot air while sitting at lights. It's miserable and unnecessary. I need to send the ECU off and have it fixed. I experimented with unplugging the fan for a couple days and forgot about it for the next month. Bike never overheated and I was way more comfortable. Feels wrong having the fan completely disabled though.