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Rear axle nut


Claude

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New to FZ07 world so excuse me if this already have been covered (I made a search and found nothing revelant).

From my reading on the FB FZ07 page, damage to rear axle nut seem to be a quite frequent occurence. Is it the same thing here?

I always have been using a torque wrench on the wheels of all my bikes and will do the same on my FZo7. Am I at risk then?

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Looks to be some solutions though as per the two links below. Do you know if one is better than the other?

I always am trying to foresee a solution for an eventual problem and could buy one of the option below just in case. I would hate to damage a rear axle which, anyway, costs about as much as those options...

Thanks!

 

ACM.jpg

Material: Titan ti6alv4; mit 20 Gramm eine ultraleichte Achsmutter in formschönem Design; neuartige „pin-lock“...
RTFZ07AB-2T.jpg

Yamaha FZ07 MT-07 Captive Axle Slider Blocks Billet 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 quick change slider blocks

 

 

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The Yamaha suggested torque is a bit higher than necessary. I've found 65ft/lbs to be sufficient. The stock nut seems to be the source of the problem that numerous people have experienced. I've got a titanium nut that works well but, unfortunately, I don't recall where it came from. I put a smidgen of anti-seize on the axle's threads and haven't gotten any galling.

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Here's the gore-ee story

"sspicion has moved from Fuji nut, to axle material being soft, to lack of anti-seize, to "work stress" with high torque spec a compounding factor"

image.png.644e3fb06ffef9ed0dc6675de02a365a.png

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Just now, M. Hausknecht said:

The Yamaha suggested torque is a bit higher than necessary. I've found 65ft/lbs to be sufficient. The stock nut seems to be the source of the problem that numerous people have experienced. I've got a titanium nut that works well but, unfortunately, I don't recall where it came from. I put a smidgen of anti-seize on the axle's threads and haven't gotten any galling.

The first link I posted is precisely that: a titanium nut from Gilles tooling. Quite expensive but worth its cost if it eliminates the problem.

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Just now, Pursuvant said:

Here's the gore-ee story

"sspicion has moved from Fuji nut, to axle material being soft, to lack of anti-seize, to "work stress" with high torque spec a compounding factor"

image.png.644e3fb06ffef9ed0dc6675de02a365a.png

Cheech! Quite a long story. Worst part is that there's still no clear solution.

Pursuvant, I see that you are quite involved in this thread; do you have any opinion about the two solutions I posted the links of? (second post of this thread).

Thanks!

Edited by Claude
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Just now, Triple Jim said:

I've adjusted my chain a couple times, and nothing unusual happened.

Any special procedure? Like threads cleaning, anti-seize, etc...

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Nothing special, but I didn't use a torque wrench.  It's likely I didn't get to the 76 lb-ft in the manual.  It was good and snug though.

Edited by Triple Jim
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3 hours ago, Claude said:

Cheech! Quite a long story. Worst part is that there's still no clear solution.

Pursuvant, I see that you are quite involved in this thread; do you have any opinion about the two solutions I posted the links of? (second post of this thread).

Thanks!

 

Disclaimers - Always follow the Yamaha recommendations.

----Here's #1

OEM Fuji axle nut, OEM axle, drill axle for R-cotter pin, anti-seize, and reduced torque to 52 ft-lbs (a reduction of the recommended torque and reduction for the anti-seize reduced coefficient of friction).

You can have any machine shop or independent motorcycle shop drill your axle for an R cotter pin, and hardware store keeps cotter pins in stock. Use anti-seize every time you take nut loose to adjust chain, etc. Take the nut off, wipe it and the axle clean, and put on fresh anti-seize. Reduce that axle nut torqe.

---- here's #2

If you don't have axle sliders, get them front & rear, because yes. These pic are Woodcraft rear axle sliders for mt-07. They will prevent the axle nut from coming off axle.

image.png.d5ce01c0de48e004b6279a6ce87ed6d2.png

Use anti-seize every time you take nut loose to adjust chain, etc. Take the nut off, wipe it and the axle clean, and put on fresh anti-seize. OEM Fuji axle nut, OEM axle, and reduced torque to 52 ft-lbs. That's how I run at the moment. 

-----here's #3

Forget about it because bad things never happen, and you're smart you know this never happened and this is the user's fault and can't happen to you

Whis is it happening? I think some axles have a higher than normal silver content. And you can compress those rear wheel bearings with less than 76 ft-lbs torque

 

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Just now, Pursuvant said:

I think some axles have a higher than normal silver content.

What steel alloy contains silver?

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+1 for the Gilles axle nut.  The locking mechanism is friction based that is applied to axle thread by some kind of malleable polymer, via grub screw.  Looks like rubber to me. 

Fuji nuts are nutty.  Designed to gall and cause damage.  

Y'all forget to use a torque wrench?  Or is the joke on me?

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I have still the first original Yamaha nut on my 2014 MT-07.  No problems.
Always cleaned the threads, used a little bit of ceramic anti seize and decreased the torque to ~100 Nm

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Just now, Triple Jim said:

What steel alloy contains silver?

Thank you for fixing my mental lack, I'll do my best to quit saying "silver content"

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Just now, Tpadden said:

Pro bolt makes one as well.  I use a quality castle nut on the race bike

You’re right. I just looked on Pro bolt website and found two; one stainless and one titanium.

I know SS nut on SS bolt is prone to galling but how a SS nut reacts on a STD steel shaft? I’m asking assuming FZ07’s rear wheel axle is made of STD steel.

Is titanium a better choice (vs SS)?

Personally, I don’t really mind about titanium lower weight. SS is half the cost so it would be my choice if recommended.

Edited by Claude
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Links to Pro bolt.

6fcc50ffaf787aba60321e5a5a3b33f8609a11a8

Stainless Steel Rear Axle Nut. M18 x 1.50mm with integral washer, 27mm A/F. Manufactured from 316 Stainless Steel to provide...
TINUT18150001Z2__02553.1591213163.386.51

Titanium Rear Axle Nut. M18 x 1.50mm with integral washer. Manufactured from Grade 5 Titanium to provide excellent weight...

 

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22 hours ago, M. Hausknecht said:

The Yamaha suggested torque is a bit higher than necessary. I've found 65ft/lbs to be sufficient. The stock nut seems to be the source of the problem that numerous people have experienced. I've got a titanium nut that works well but, unfortunately, I don't recall where it came from. I put a smidgen of anti-seize on the axle's threads and haven't gotten any galling.

I think Yamaha is spitting out torque specs looking at a chart based on fastener size and not usage. 

CP3 guys are blowing oil pans apart following the recommend 35 ft lbs (!) spec. One poor guy stripped his steering stem trying to hit the , IIRC, over 100 ft lb spec on that one. That's just abusive at that point. 

I don't have much faith in Yamaha torque specs at the moment. 

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I found two options on Ebay. I know, it is Chinese stuff but wondering about opinions as cost is about 1/3 of the aformentionned options. What do you think? 

s-l400.jpg

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M18 M20 M22 M24x1.5mm Titanium Flange Nuts for Bicycle Motorcycle...
s-l400.jpg

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M18x1.5mm Burn Blue GR5 Titanium Flange Hex Nut For...
s-l400.jpg

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M18x1.5mm Ti GR5 Titanium Flange Hex Nut For Motorcycle...

 

 

 

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Just now, Claude said:

I found two options on Ebay. I know, it is Chinese stuff but wondering about opinions as cost is about 1/3 of the aformentionned options. What do you think? 

s-l400.jpg

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M18 M20 M22 M24x1.5mm Titanium Flange Nuts for Bicycle Motorcycle...
s-l400.jpg

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M18x1.5mm Burn Blue GR5 Titanium Flange Hex Nut For...
s-l400.jpg

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M18x1.5mm Ti GR5 Titanium Flange Hex Nut For Motorcycle...

 

 

 

Can I suggest this is a problem that does not require a new part. We have been running fine for years by reducing the torque to something around 55 ft-lbs and using anti-sieze. Why go chinesium with unknown qualities?

Even with Chinesium, you still have to reduce torque and use anti-sieze

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Just now, Pursuvant said:

Can I suggest this is a problem that does not require a new part. We have been running fine for years by reducing the torque to something around 55 ft-lbs and using anti-sieze. Why go chinesium with unknown qualities?

Even with Chinesium, you still have to reduce torque and use anti-sieze

Well, you’re right. Let’s consider the parts mentionned above (not the Ebay parts) an alternative if the OEM nut ever goes wrong/damaged and need to be replaced.

Edited by Claude
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cornerslider
On 9/29/2022 at 12:40 AM, M. Hausknecht said:

The Yamaha suggested torque is a bit higher than necessary. I've found 65ft/lbs to be sufficient. The stock nut seems to be the source of the problem that numerous people have experienced. I've got a titanium nut that works well but, unfortunately, I don't recall where it came from. I put a smidgen of anti-seize on the axle's threads and haven't gotten any galling.

+1 on this!!! After the OEM nut destroyed my axle (which is more expensive to replace than one might think), I was part of a "group buy" on this site. We got a discounted price on titanium axle nuts from Beleisi-Moto, which is a site sponsor of the FZ-07.org site. They have an allen head set-screw that locks it in place mechanically, rather than the OEM  axle nut that chews up axles. My local club racing org requires a "locking axle nut", or a pin that prevents the axle nut from coming loose. When I brought my bike to "tech-inspection", it didn't pass (initially). After I pointed out the set screw that they missed, it passed. The tech guy was actually pretty impressed-

""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake"

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Just now, cornerslider said:

...We got a discounted price on titanium axle nuts from Beleisi-Moto, which is a site sponsor of the FZ-07.org site...

Do you mean Bellisi-Moto?

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