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AUX - USB Charger (fail)


Pursuvant

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EDIT:  Found the USB Charger installed  is not a Motopower.

Year ago I connected 2019 XSR700 switched AUX (under left side fuel tank panel) to Motopower USB charger, tested it with phone Motorola G6 (phone has a 15watt charging spec), showed it was charging phone (when ignition is on). FYI I replaced the Yamaha plug with an SAE plug like on "battery tenders" at the same time, so I can switch out other connections/devices easier. I use a "hikers" weatherproofed USB cable to run up to the handlebars/phone. I never use it, but it was there if I needed it.

Installed, it looks like this:

01b.jpg.77d55ae869ccfd78fd3060780f510209.jpg

Recently used the same phone with Maps app I tested last year, and surprise after about an hour runtime (maps screen on all the time) phone shutdown. I checked it and nothing wrong except phone battery dead. Phone was being charged by my setup, but Maps pulls more power than the USB charger pushes into the phone.

I checked it again as a test, the phone was at 77% charge at start of test, phone plugged into USB while I was riding around, had the phone on but no user apps running, just normal mode we carry our phones around in all the time (screen off until something happens). After about a half hour ride, the AUX - USB charger had charged the phone to about 85%, that's pitifully slow charging but it does show that the AUX - USB charger was juicing the phone when it's plugged in.

 

Will do another test soon, where I disconnect the USB charger from the AUX and plug USB charger into the bike battery directly (using the bike battery "battery tender" SAE plug). I will do the same test with Maps running and see if when not powering USB charger by the bike AUX but from the battery directly, how the USB charger performs.

Want to pin down, is it the AUX amps in that are not up to the task? Or is there something wrong with the USB charger and it "negotiates" a pitifully slow charge rate with the cell phone (I don't know if USB "negotiates" charge rates, just a guess).

Here is what the test I will do soon will look like:

02b.jpg.431a8fa7902f22f7a3991947c8022568.jpg

Note, that Output: 5V, 3.1 A (max) in pic above is for Motopower - I don't know what tside charger output is

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I don't think the motorcycle's aux supply is the problem.  It's fused at 2 amps, and if you tried to draw more than that the fuse would let you know.  A 5v dc-dc converter putting out 3.1 amps shouldn't draw anywhere near the 2A fuse current anyway, since that 2A is at 12-14 volts, and converters are pretty efficient.

Edited by Triple Jim
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To add on to Triple Jim, Motorola G6 is shipped with a 15 Watt charger. If you are charging at 2A with 12-14 Volts, you the output power should be 24-28 Watts which should be sufficient. Have you tried cleaning your charging port in your phone and in the aux? That is one region where you could get a bad connection.

edit: Also might be worth trying a different cable. Some cables might degrade over time being out in the elements on your motorcycle.

Edited by tomlichu
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Just now, tomlichu said:

Also might be worth trying a different cable. Some cables might degrade over time being out in the elements on your motorcycle.

Also some cables are made from such tiny wire that at high current the voltage drop is excessive.

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The USB cable is often a problem/ the bottleneck. The cheap ones have not enough copper cable diameter (sounds wrong, don't know a better word :D  ), like Triple Jim said.
I think I have exactly the same USB charger installed in the area behind the rectifier/regulator. I had no problems with it, I bought it in 2018:

grafik.thumb.png.75c2ee86619a22b8f47ed745ddd766c5.png

But I never really checked the charging time, I connect my old Huawei or Google Pixel and after riding with navigation the battery is full, thats all I want.  I paid 10€ incl. shipping, so to be honest I never expected  it to fulfill the given specs  :D

Edited by ElGonzales
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Just now, ElGonzales said:

The USB cable is often a problem/ the bottleneck. The cheap ones have not enough copper cable diameter (sounds wrong, don't know a better word :D  ), like Triple Jim said.

Yes, that might also be due to the wire diameter. It's referred to as the gauge size (AWG). It's not intuitive, but a larger gauge means a smaller diameter. So a 16 AWG has a smaller diameter than a wire that is 4 AWG. The link below is a useful chart showing wire gauge (diameter) and the rated current depending on wire length.

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/newsletter/images/DC_wire_selection_chartlg.jpg

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Problem is an exceptionally average usb charger - you can see the branding in the pic.

Bike's switched AUX power is solid - 13.75 volts with bike running

TracksideUSBCharger02.jpg.9d8e276a67337642d6303c9aee4efc48.jpg

 

Useful for troubleshooting, for Android, download "Ampere" app, it reports charging rate on cell phone in near-real-time.

USB cable on the bike is good. Tside usb charger was tested on the AUX and on bike battery power direct with different usb cables, it never charged faster than 240mA, regardless of what cables tested with (cables that work at 10 times that speed on 110v Motorola indoor wall charger that came with Moto G6).

Negative reviews online confirmed my problem, some units sold never charge fast enough to overcome using the phone while charging, and very slow charging, common complaints.

Thanks for the advice all !

 

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I did a quick check on my adapter yesterday, it went up to 1.4A  with the connected phone.
It was the same connected to my car and to a wall charger. Ampere App showed something around 900mA, but I have checked the tiny USB Tester against a calibrated multimeter, it is pretty accurate. But 240mA sounds really very low -> trash

(Perhaps the Resistor between the two contacts in the middle of the USB Port, D+/D- line, is missing on the adapter side and the smartphone charging controller is not switching to  dedicated charging port mode what limits the max. current to 500 mA. Only one of many possibilities)

grafik.thumb.png.5905c3eeb5b5d67166547ca356d10fa3.png

Edited by ElGonzales
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I was going to say, that the TrackSide charger looks like the Motopower - marketing deal to sell under the TrackSide brand, maybe...

image.png.f9c6f3e1539ace97684f64502b25705e.png

Even the shape & colors of the label, just changed it to say "TrackSide".

It's not an important part to me, I think I'll try another minimalist charger, like MicTuning.

Watt = Amp x Volt

2.1a  x 5v = 10.1 Watts (MicTuning)

My phone has a rapid charge, supporting 15 Watts charging power. So it looks like I need a 3amp output charger (below ?)

15watts / 5volts = 3amps

That doesn't seem right, can a USB charger with input 13 volts and 2amp fuse step up the output amps to 3amps? I used to know stuff, this chemo-brain is dragging me down, not sure about lots of things these days. 

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Just now, Pursuvant said:

That doesn't seem right, can a USB charger with input 13 volts and 2amp fuse step up the output amps to 3amps?

Yes, DC-DC converters are pretty efficient.  13v x 2a = 26 watts.  5v x 3a = 15 watts.  The converter has to be only 15/26 = .58, or 58% efficient for that to work, and they're usually more efficient than that.

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4 hours ago, Pursuvant said:

I was going to say, that the TrackSide charger looks like the Motopower - marketing deal to sell under the TrackSide brand, maybe...

image.png.f9c6f3e1539ace97684f64502b25705e.png

Even the shape & colors of the label, just changed it to say "TrackSide".

It's not an important part to me, I think I'll try another minimalist charger, like MicTuning.

Watt = Amp x Volt

2.1a  x 5v = 10.1 Watts (MicTuning)

My phone has a rapid charge, supporting 15 Watts charging power. So it looks like I need a 3amp output charger (below ?)

15watts / 5volts = 3amps

That doesn't seem right, can a USB charger with input 13 volts and 2amp fuse step up the output amps to 3amps? I used to know stuff, this chemo-brain is dragging me down, not sure about lots of things these days. 

Voltage is the speed electricity flows at. Amperage is the intensity.  Think of a feather hitting you at 100mph, then a baseball hitting you at the same speed. Big difference in the amount of energy. 

But that's only half the story. Voltage is what energizes the wire and makes energy present while amperage is a measurement of the amount of energy being used. The key words there are energy present and energy used. 

You can "push" voltage ( technically energizing, but pushing makes sense to our brains)  but you can't push amps. Amps can only be drawn.  The wires on those connectors can probably withstand 600 volts or more, but amperage is what makes. 

 

So you're correct. You can't draw 3 amps from a 2 amp circuit. 

 

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5 hours ago, Pursuvant said:

That doesn't seem right, can a USB charger with input 13 volts and 2amp fuse step up the output amps to 3amps? I used to know stuff, this chemo-brain is dragging me down, not sure about lots of things these days. 

Modern day smartphones have voltage regulators. I believe whatever your power source is, your phone will regulate the input voltage to 5 V (not sure the G6) via some voltage regulator built inside your phone. Even with a 2 Amp circuit, you should be able to charge your G6 at 10 Watts; this phone uses a relatively low end chip (Qualcomm SDM450 Snapdragon 450) which means it uses less power. For instance, the iPhone 7 shipped with 5 Watt chargers, with a max charging rate of 10 Watts.

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MicTuning USB Charger 2.1a arrived today, SAE connector on my AUX made it plug n play to replace TrackSide.

Phone at 50% charge before testing. Android app Amperes reported 1760 mAmp charge rate with bike running, AUX @ 13.75 volts. That's enough juice

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