One exhaust pipe getting visibly red

[elykyle15]

Just now, Triple Jim said:

Now that we know your mixture is insanely rich, it would be wise to correct that and see where it stands.  I suspect that's your problem and that your valve timing is correct.  I also suspect shinyribs will agree, but I don't want to speak for him.  

That's interesting, regarding timing. I'm only suspicious of timing because of a repair I had done by a not-so-reputable shop, but the bike isn't having issues kicking on or idling (which I understand would indicate a timing issue). But damn.. that's rich..

I'm pinging shibribs to confirm their perspective.

[Triple Jim]

It's always best to correct one thing at a time.  A valve timing error would not cause the mixture to be rich, so that's why I suggested correcting the mixture, and see how things behave at that time, before doing anything else.

[M. Hausknecht]

Unless there is something uncharacteristically off about the fuel mapping (2WDW is reputable and others here run the same map and configuration without issues), I'd suspect one or more sensors are providing bad info to the ecu, so that it is generating an excessively rich mixture.

Another possibility is a filthy air filter or airbox clog.

Another possibility is that the plug boots/coils weren't fully inserted onto the plugs. I mention this latter possibility because I had that exact problem and the resulting weak spark made the plugs look really rich (like yours). I switched to clean plugs, made damn sure the coils were fully seated, and  then the motor ran right.

[elykyle15]

Just now, M. Hausknecht said:

Another possibility is a filthy air filter or airbox clog.

I did replace the factory air filter with a K&N filter when I noticed this issue occurring.

 

Just now, M. Hausknecht said:

Another possibility is that the plug boots/coils weren't fully inserted onto the plugs.

The plugs were replaced twice and the issue occurred before and after both. So, I don't think unless there's something wrong with the coils.

 

Just now, M. Hausknecht said:

Unless there is something uncharacteristically off about the fuel mapping

I trust their work. Plus, this issue occurred with a custom flash, a stock flash, and then 2WDW flash. Same thing; left exhaust hot. 

[klx678]

Any bike with single wall exhaust will have exhaust head pipes glow if the bike is left running stationary for any length of time.  The exhaust coming out is around 1300°F.    I let my old SR500 warm up one night when it was 27°F outside, when I went out to leave it was glowing bright orange from the head down around 8" or so.  I started riding, glow was gone in about 1/8 mile as wind cooled the pipe.

Here's a shot of Ryan Villopoto's head pipe glowing as he sits with it running:

 

Here's a KTM with a glowing head pipe :

Read the whole thread and see what most said, including a KTM dealer at the end...  click here

[shinyribs]

Just now, Triple Jim said:

Now that we know your mixture is insanely rich, it would be wise to correct that and see where it stands.  I suspect that's your problem and that your valve timing is correct.  I also suspect shinyribs will agree, but I don't want to speak for him.  

Yeah, I with you all the way. 

@elykyle15Fuel mileage in the teens is ridiculously bad. The worst I ever got was high 40's playing with the bike very hard. My average stays around 52-53mpg with a stock ECU and a lot of hooning. 

With the info developing now, I would be curious to check fuel pressure. Maybe the fuel pressure regulator has failed which can force-feed fuel through an injection regardless of it's on time( tune). If fuel pressure checks out I would be suspicious of the tune, but ECU issues are generally over my head.

[shinyribs]

Just now, klx678 said:

Any bike with single wall exhaust will have exhaust head pipes glow if the bike is left running stationary for any length of time.  The exhaust coming out is around 1300°F.    I let my old SR500 warm up one night when it was 27°F outside, when I went out to leave it was glowing bright orange from the head down around 8" or so.  I started riding, glow was gone in about 1/8 mile as wind cooled the pipe.

Here's a shot of Ryan Villopoto's head pipe glowing as he sits with it running:

 

Here's a KTM with a glowing head pipe :

Read the whole thread and see what most said, including a KTM dealer at the end...  click here

I test rode a CRF 450L when they first came out. The pipe was glowing on that thing as it warmed up while they were getting my paperwork ready. I've seen road tractors with a red glow reflecting off a wet road underneath while climbing the mountains around here. Crazy. 

[M. Hausknecht]

3 hours ago, elykyle15 said:

I did replace the factory air filter with a K&N filter when I noticed this issue occurring.

 

The plugs were replaced twice and the issue occurred before and after both. So, I don't think unless there's something wrong with the coils.

 

I trust their work. Plus, this issue occurred with a custom flash, a stock flash, and then 2WDW flash. Same thing; left exhaust hot. 

A red exhaust pipe is a minor symptom of something that may or, as others have noted, may not be a problem. The black plugs are a much more significant and entirely unambiguous symptom of a real problem; your mixture is too rich in both cylinders.

[M. Hausknecht]

1 hour ago, shinyribs said:

Yeah, I with you all the way. 

@elykyle15Fuel mileage in the teens is ridiculously bad. The worst I ever got was high 40's playing with the bike very hard. My average stays around 52-53mpg with a stock ECU and a lot of hooning. 

With the info developing now, I would be curious to check fuel pressure. Maybe the fuel pressure regulator has failed which can force-feed fuel through an injection regardless of it's on time( tune). If fuel pressure checks out I would be suspicious of the tune, but ECU issues are generally over my head.

The fuel pump doesn't have a separate regulator and, honestly based on my partial disassembly of a my 07 pump, I question whether it even has a regulator. In any event, the injector flow should be 280cc/min, and fuel pressure should be about  69.7psi (according to the service manual,which includes a description on how to check fuel pressure). My ecu allows me to measure injector flow but I don't know if that is possible with a Yamaha ecu.

[Triple Jim]

Just now, M. Hausknecht said:

fuel pressure should be about  69.7psi

Ha... I love unit conversions from metric to English with super precision.  I'd like to see a pressure gauge for less than $1,000 that can measure pressure in that range to the nearest 1/10 of a PSI.   

Edited April 7, 2022 by Triple Jim

[elykyle15]

14 hours ago, shinyribs said:

With the info developing now, I would be curious to check fuel pressure. Maybe the fuel pressure regulator has failed which can force-feed fuel through an injection regardless of it's on time( tune).

Thanks for mentioning this. Would this be something that could be determined by any diagnostic tools?

[elykyle15]

4 hours ago, M. Hausknecht said:

A red exhaust pipe is a minor symptom of something that may or, as others have noted, may not be a problem. The black plugs are a much more significant and entirely unambiguous symptom of a real problem; your mixture is too rich in both cylinders.

Based on the reading klx678 suggested, it sounds like hot pipes may not be an indication of something.

But, agreed, those plugs are clearly indicating a problem.

[Triple Jim]

The pipes on my MT-07 have never gotten close to red hot.  It took a couple hundred miles for them to even start to get a gold color instead of the silver color of stainless steel they started out with.

[shinyribs]

Just now, Triple Jim said:

The pipes on my MT-07 have never gotten close to red hot.  It took a couple hundred miles for them to even start to get a gold color instead of the silver color of stainless steel they started out with.

Same thing on my bike. I wouldn't call glowing red pipes normal for these particular engines. 

[shinyribs]

3 hours ago, elykyle15 said:

Thanks for mentioning this. Would this be something that could be determined by any diagnostic tools?

I've not done it myself, but the factory service manual ( not the owners manual) will have an explanation of how to test it. You should be able to find a downloadable pdf version online somewhere. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by shinyribs

[elykyle15]

Just now, shinyribs said:

I wouldn't call glowing red pipes normal for these particular engines.

Other FZ07 owners seem to agree with this. Truthfully, I didn't notice this until I started investigating the rich mixture issue. The fact I hadn't noticed it before lead me to think it was something new. The glowing of the pipe seemingly could be related to the rich mixture, but regardless the extra crispy plugs show that more clearly.

[elykyle15]

On 4/6/2022 at 12:28 AM, Triple Jim said:

That's at least 3 times the fuel it should be getting.

Regarding the 16.8 MPG.

I reset this gauge and rode around in the city for a bit and the AVG doubled. Not sure if these numbers are acceptable for in-city driving.

Also, here's a video of me holding it around 3000-4000 RPMs.

[Triple Jim]

For reference, my completely stock 2020 MT-07's gas mileage always averages in the low 60s.

[elykyle15]

Just now, Triple Jim said:

For reference, my completely stock 2020 MT-07's gas mileage always averages in the low 60s.

I'm also trying to take into account that my bike is not stock:

• Akra exhaust
• K&N intake
• 2WDW flash

[sweetscience]

How long has the check engine light been on? 

 Have you checked for error codes?

Why did you mess with the timing chain tensioner?

Did this problem occur before or after the 2WDW flash?

Popping during acceleration is abnormal.

 Step number one is to check for fault codes.  Just get a cheap OBD2 4-pin diagnostic cable, and code reader.

Darker colored spark plugs are not uncommon for a richly tuned bike.  But just not nearly as black as yours.

 

[klx678]

Red pipes depend on how long the bike sits without air flowing over them.   After all, that exhaust is around 1300°F and steel starts to glow red around 900°F

 

Just sayin' the exhaust will glow if hot enough and the exhaust gasses are hot enough given time.  

Of course it appears the OP has a bad flash job making it too rich.  Too lean would have done the same as would lack of air flow, and a number of other reasons.

Edited April 8, 2022 by klx678

[sweetscience]

Yeah, if all sensors are OK, then the possibility of a wrong flash file was given.

[shinyribs]

Just now, elykyle15 said:

I'm also trying to take into account that my bike is not stock:

• Akra exhaust
• K&N intake
• 2WDW flash

Don't take this the wrong way, but air filter and exhaust systems on these bikes add like 1-3hp on average. That's basically the accuracy rate of a dyno. In other words, these bikes in stock trim ( albeit very quiet and a bit lean) aren't giving up any airflow/hp as delivered. 

Quite a few people complained of big drops in fuel mileage with 2wdw tunes, but a filter and a set of pipes aren't going to hurt your fuel mileage. 

Again, I'm not making fun of these things. I put an Arrow system on my 07 because I loved the looks and the sound, but the bike was not inhibited in any way with the stock stuff. 

 

But yeah, 60 mpg in town is pretty common IMO. Your bike is incorrectly dumping fuel for some reason, but it's not related to your air filter or exhaust system at all. 

Something in your fuel system is wrong. The mystery now is to figure out if it's hardware or software related.

[elykyle15]

Just now, sweetscience said:

How long has the check engine light been on?

It hasn't been on. This is just how the bike is when it's first turned "on".

Just now, sweetscience said:

Why did you mess with the timing chain tensioner?

The timing chain clatters a lot when the bike get hot. I thought to replace the tensioner with another one might stop it. It didn't. I'm still thinking about getting an adjustable one. I don't like the sound.

Just now, sweetscience said:

Did this problem occur before or after the 2WDW flash?

Popping during acceleration is abnormal.

This occurred with a near-stock flash, a stock flash, and then a 2WDW flash.

 

Not sure if it was due to the flash; I get hot pipes regardless of what's been flashed. Still undetermined if the hot pipes mean anything.

[Triple Jim]

Just now, elykyle15 said:

Still undetermined if the hot pipes mean anything.

As I posted above, my stock MT doesn't come even remotely close to glowing head pipes.  There is a connection between the extremely rich mixture and the glowing pipes.