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Shoespiracy


00RAH

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I've always felt that shoes are overrated and overused in the US and most other countries, but I do think heavy, protective footwear is necessary for motorcycle riding.  It increases the chance that I'll continue to have functional feet.

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I had a girl friend that moved to Hawaii in her late twenties and basically lived in flip flops and sandals from then on. In the space of a couple years her feet widened to the point where they wouldn't begin to fit in any of her shoes regular type shoes. It was pretty amazing to see when she'd come to visit. 

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Cool video. I enjoyed it. Then followed the prompts to the $200-300 shoes they want you to buy 😂 Had to see it coming. 

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5 hours ago, shinyribs said:

I had a girl friend that moved to Hawaii in her late twenties and basically lived in flip flops and sandals from then on. In the space of a couple years her feet widened to the point where they wouldn't begin to fit in any of her shoes regular type shoes. It was pretty amazing to see when she'd come to visit. 

I've been wearing barefoot shoes for years now and have similar issues haha. I dread wearing dress shoes when I need to go to a wedding or convention because they hurt after a while. I've gotten to the point where I can splay my toes and actually use them to grab things off the floor and pick them up. I think it comes in handy for things like laundry or my dog's toys, but my girlfriend thinks it's weird lmao. 

I do wear boots 100% of the time while riding, though, since I'd like to keep my feet/ankles protected in the event I go down.

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8 hours ago, shinyribs said:

I had a girl friend that moved to Hawaii in her late twenties and basically lived in flip flops and sandals from then on. In the space of a couple years her feet widened to the point where they wouldn't begin to fit in any of her shoes regular type shoes. It was pretty amazing to see when she'd come to visit. 

I was dating this hippie chick and in the process I ended up in flip flops for about 4 years straight and my toes gaps widened out quite a bit. 
 

I always kinda assumed shoes would eventually put them back to where they where but, instead my pinky toes have slowly been rotated 90 degrees and gently pushed up under the toe next to them and the gap between the rest has stayed the same.  😕

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Just now, Mt707 said:

I was dating this hippie chick and in the process I ended up in flip flops for about 4 years straight and my toes gaps widened out quite a bit. 
 

I always kinda assumed shoes would eventually put them back to where they where but, instead my pinky toes have slowly been rotated 90 degrees and gently pushed up under the toe next to them and the gap between the rest has stayed the same.  😕

It sounds like you might have been better off going with wider shoes rather than hoping your feet would get narrower.  🙂

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Just now, Triple Jim said:

It sounds like you might have been better off going with wider shoes rather than hoping your feet would get narrower.  <img src=">

20/20 hindsight man 😑

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  • 9 months later...
On 3/24/2022 at 11:35 PM, Triple Jim said:

I've always felt that shoes are overrated and overused in the US and most other countries, but I do think heavy, protective footwear is necessary for motorcycle riding.  It increases the chance that I'll continue to have functional feet.

That seems like a kind of weird statement.  Never know what kind of crap one might step on, considering how a lot of inconsiderate assholes tend to throw their trash out wherever they damn please.   Plus around houses it may not be unusual for there to be some errant roofng nails and such if that kind of work has been done.  

Shoes in general, overrated?  I think not.   But if you're talking about all the goofy varieties of "specialty" athletic shoes, that's a different story.   I have no idea why a single company would need a half dozen different models of any specific type of shoe... except to try to sell more shoes to those infatuated with shoes.   When I was a kid it was Converse, PF Flyers, Keds, and generic cheapies - either black or white and some in high top or low cut.   Cool was black Converse low cut Coach shoes.   

I do get the idea of getting a good design shoe for foot health.  My wife wore crappy $10 canvas "tennis" shoes (like anyone would wear them for that) and had foot and back issues.  I finally got her to find a comfortable pair of reasonably priced shoes and, imagine that, the foot and back issues went away.  Then I finally got her to quit wearing one pair to death, but to have two pair so she could alternate and allow them to air out a bit.   Shoes last longer.   Plus a good pair of shoes will allow for foot width and if your foot widens from going without or wearing flip-flops the size needed may go up.  When I was a kid I wore 6-1/2 for years but now it is 7 or 7-1/2. 

Although I will admit I still wear my Converse All Star Chuck Taylors, aka arch killers.  But I've not had arch issues in over 50 years with them.   

 

After watching the video I see maybe wearing the crappy flat Converse Chuck Taylors may have kept my arches stronger than if I had worn Addidas or Nikes over the past 50 years.   Open toe box, wide, no "bandaid" effect other than not having tough skin from not wearing shoes.

Edited by klx678
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nozeitgeist1800

when i was in college, there was a kid who refused to wear shoes or any footwear. originally, the college just said no, not interested, but the dude made a big deal out of it and eventually they let him but made him sign like 5 different liability release forms and a ton of liablity acceptance - like if another student got sick because he wouldnt wear shoes, he would be the party responsible for compensating the student, not the school. was a massive thing, and super funny in an ironic sorta way because the dude ended up in the hospital and missed the last month or so because he got a hookworm infection (which spreads through bare feet) that nearly took a limb if i was told correctly. 

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  • 4 months later...
AdamKareem87

Sounds like I need to read born to run and jogging. Nike is slowing ruining all of our feet. 

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What is really interesting about the whole "arch support" thing is the question, "what is supporting your arches when you are barefoot, and why isn't it noted to be hard on your arches going barefoot?"

I can see doing some arch support if one is on a long day on your feet, but really doesn't always having the support actually cause the muscles that create the natural arch support to weaken?   I was doing leg presses and actually was also working ankles and arches working the lifting with the balls of my foot and flexing outward.  No problem.  Seemed my ankles and feet were stronger than my legs in the exercise.   

I do wear a pair of walking shoes with arch support in them for walking exercise and if I know I'm going to be on my feet all day long, but otherwise I'm usually in a pair of Converse (arch killer) All Star coaches or Chuck Taylors.   My arche were and still are naturally high.  When running track/cross country in school there were no running shoes, just the flat shoes like the Converse, although the shoes worn for racing were more form fitting.  Seems all those years of wearing "arch killers" didn't seem to be that bad I guess.   I just bought another pair of Chucks, learning that the last ones weren't the original design.  The Classic version isn't as well built as the All Stars 70.  The 70 is built the same as the ones in the 60s-70s, heavier canvas, reinforcing, heavier laces, better shoe...  still no arch support per se.   Of course an insert can be added, but I never have.   Seems my arches can take it, they have to "work" without aid and they seem to have stayed strong over my near 70 years.  Wish the knees had too.

I don't run, because after some knee trouble in my early thirties the doctor told me if I continued to run he wouldn't guarantee what my knees would be like at forty - so I quit running, going to bicycling.  Later on I had a severe neck injury that caused some muscle loss in my left leg, so I don't quite have the coordination between both legs to run, usually ending tripping up along the way.  And now approacing 70 my knees are wearing out, although still not much problem walking.  I may get tired feet or sore from multiple hours on my feet, but not related to arches.  Just plain fatigue...  Hey, I'm older now!

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1 hour ago, klx678 said:

What is really interesting about the whole "arch support" thing is the question, "what is supporting your arches when you are barefoot, and why isn't it noted to be hard on your arches going barefoot?"

 

I had the same question. I spend a lot of time barefoot. I log and run a small sawmill barefoot and it drives people crazy. Trust me, if I ever get tangled up in the sawmill, and flimsy leather boot isn't going to protect me any more than a ball cap would.  One thing I've noticed after wearing my work "boots" all day ( can't show up to a customers house barefoot looking homeless) and kicking them off when I get home is the immediate change in the way I walk. 

 

With boots/shoes that always have a built up heel block, we tend to walk heel-first and then plop the rest of your foot down. Kinda like a duck. You can't really use the muscles in your feet because our foot is basically locked in to the shape of it's cage. 

 

Barefoot, slamming your heel down doesn't feel great. You'll instinctively starting walking on the balls of your feet and toes, while naturally arching your foot to keep your heel up. 

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Right.  As an example, having "good" arch support from shoes makes your feet rely on that support, and their muscles get weak.  Of course then if the person goes without that support he/she may feel pain and attribute it to not having the required supportive shoes.

I sometimes tell people that if you wear shoes all the time, you will need to wear shoes all the time.

Edited by Triple Jim
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The thing that helped my wife wasn't so much the arch and all, it was a decent fitting shoe over the $5 specials.   

I had read something recently that sometimes having things that provide support all the time will allow muscles to weaken.   So if wearing supports for some purposes may be good, but too much time doesn't allow muscle maintenance or development.   I have a bad knee, but not wearing any brace, mostly because I don't see how it would help if my knee gives out, considering the brace allows the knee to move.  It may provide some support, but does it really help over actually trying to strengthen the muscles relating to the joint.    My problem is not a joint popping out, but rather problems with the muscles and tendons tying everything together.  There is arthritis in the joint, causes pain, but not seeing how it would cause the muscle structure around the joint to give out.

It seems to me there is a time and place for everything.   I don't worry about arch support in general, but will use them when walking for excercise, but they really have little effect as high as my arches are.   A knee wrap might provide suport, but building the strength should work at least as well in general use.   A knee wrap in more radical work outs would make sense binding the joint to hold stronger, but that's not what I'm doing.  I don't go for high weight, I'm going for higher number of reps.  I know if I can press 135lb three sets of ten I can probably add another 50 lb and do say, three reps.   Past experience taught me that.   Not working to be a big body, but rather a stronger healthier body is the plan.

I'd think doing the same with feet would make some sense.  In doing the leg press I have done 10 reps of flexing ankle and foot against the weight both before and after the ten leg reps.  Surprisingly it's really easy doing them.

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50 minutes ago, klx678 said:

In doing the leg press I have done 10 reps of flexing ankle and foot against the weight both before and after the ten leg reps.  Surprisingly it's really easy doing them.

This is an important point. I have flat feet, so when I squat, I need flex my butt and open my hips, which improves my balance and stability. This lifts the internal portion of my foot up and I create a small arch (If you think in the mechanical aspect, arches are strong, hence why we have them in our bridges). By creating an arch, I am able to flex and grip the floor with my toes better, which provides stability. I found that foot and knee pain can also be symptom (for example: tight calves, poor ankle flexibility, butt not engaged)

This Youtube short summarizes how it works.

 

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@tomlichu Does the lifting have any effect on your arches?  Is there any "fix" for flat feet?   Is it just the way it is?   Like I have high arches and have never had any issue even considering running in years before there were "running shoes".  I also had a grade school friend who had flat feet.   Not having them I know nothing about them.   I just know how there is so much emphasis on arch support, but if it was so important why haven't mine broken down?   I've worn Converse All Star Chuck Taylor high tops since around 1972 and before that was wearing low cut Coaches and other similar "tennis shoes", because there really wasn't any special shoes.

Interesting topic.

 

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5 hours ago, klx678 said:

@tomlichu Does the lifting have any effect on your arches?  Is there any "fix" for flat feet?   Is it just the way it is?   

Lifting has improved my arches, but only because I engage my foot muscles for squats and deadlifts

There is no fix for flat feet in the sense that I will not develop an arch overtime. What anyone with feet pain can do is they can strengthen their foot muscles by engaging their feet (like trying to grab the floor with their toes). Muscle = stability, this is also true for injuries. My physical therapy for my injured shoulder is to literally build stability through strength because my tendons and joints in my shoulder are too weak to keep my arm in its socket. Tendons and joints heal very slowly because these parts receive less blood than muscle. It is better to build stability with muscle as the soft tissue heals, strength building would be used as a preventative maintenance for future injuries as well.

What I learned about resistance training is that you will not build muscle if you do not engage that muscle. Seems obvious, but I'm talking about the smaller supporting muscles. Many people who squat do not "grip" the floor with their toes, brace their core, and pull down their lats. They miss out on that benefit of engaging the supporting muscles and building stability through strength. I have been doing it for the last two years, and I rarely get feet pain or fatigue now. This is because I am engaging my foot muscles when I grip the floor.

This leads to buying the right shoes for flat feet. Some argue that flat footed people have poor stability, so they need insoles with good arch support with cushy shoes that will prevent overpronation (overpronating is common for flat feet). On the opposite spectrum, others argue that because we have flat feet, it is even more important to build feet muscle to improve stability. Hard to say what is right, but I always notice that my feet pain improves when I train (running, hiking, weightlifting). I like running barefooted on grass, feels very natural to me, but I also like to wear my cushy walking shoes on concrete.

Edited by tomlichu
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  • 2 weeks later...

@klx678

As a fellow chuck taylor fan id like to share with you, i recently bought new pair and tore out all the eyelets, instantly the comfort level went up. The top of the shoe feels more snug under flex i called it a game changer. If i ever travel to Vietnam id like to visit the Converse factory and get a pair without the lace holes and just cut  slits instead i believe it would elevate the chuck to the next level in terms of comfort and aesthetics.

Ps. Happy 4th of july y'all

Edited by 00RAH
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@00RAH  I recently learned about the Chuck Taylor C70.  I'd been wearing what I thought were the same ones I used to get, but a half size larger.  Then I stumbled across information that they were the Chuck Taylor Classic and that there was a Chuck Taylor C70 and that they ran a half size smaller.  I'd always worn 6-1/2s from the late 60s until Nike bought them out.  Then I had to go to 7s.  

Well, it turns out that the Classics are lighter canvas and are missing some reinforcement and extra stitching along with a faster wearing sole.  I think they were the old no-name high tops from the past.   The C70s look similar, but they have some extra stitching and reinforcement along with the heavier canvas from the past, not to mention heavier laces.

C70:

gd7v00s7lpgxoap4adqk.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=

The classics just don't have it:

A_classic_Black_pair_of_Converse_All_Sta

No extra stitching and they feel lighter too.   The All Star label on the back of the C70s are white on black where the Classics are black on white.  

Definitely like the feel of the C70s and they feel more padded in the sole too.  Still flat as a pancake though.  Product comparisons say the C70 will outwear the Classics too.

I sold the new pair of Classics on ebay for what I paid for them.

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