Shock and Linkage (and Tires?)

[seven]

Looking to start some prep for the coming year on my 2019 MT-07 which I hope to have up to my local 1.3 mile track for 5 to 10 track days as well as it being my street bike. I know that I am not even at the limits of my bike as it is right now so not looking at any of these upgrades to "make me faster" as I know that it is my skills that need to improve to make that happen. However I like to tinker and I have heard lots on this forum that upgrading the shock is awesome even for a street bike so I have been thinking of getting a K-Tech Razor.

However I have heard some of you talk about getting a different shock linkage as well. Besides not fully appreciating what a different linkage really would do for me, I really don't have the funds for the Robem Engineering linkage - but damn it is a fine looking piece. Would a linkage be something to consider "down the road" and what, in layperson terms, are the benefits. I have read that it raises the back of the bike, improving the swingarm angle, which in turn sound like it improves handling/steering...if I understood it all correctly. Are there different linkages that serve different purposes?

So the next part, is tires. I am currently on Michelin Pilot Road 4 that have about 7000km on them including I think 6 track days and they still have lots of life in them from what I remember (the bike is still all tucked away for winter). Some guys at the track suggested upgrading my tires and I am happy to do that as I have always believed that tires are the single best modification you can do for a vehicle. However, when it came to cars at least, putting performance tires on and then overdriving those tires could result in burning them up really fast or even damaging them. Also having really sticky rubber can mask mistakes in driving technique, like learning to be really smooth with control inputs. As I am a novice track rider (literally at the bottom of the pack) I suspect I have a lot of learning I could do on the tires I have. However, I am curious if I am maybe missing out on other learning opportunities by not being on something a bit better like a Q3+, S22, Power 5 or ContiSport Attack 4?

[M. Hausknecht]

At your level, suspension that suits your weight and riding style, and tires that give you reasonable feedback (more important than outright grip), are probably your best investments but not at the expense of well-spent track time. This means spring rates and damping that suit you and your tires. That probably means a shock with at least adjustable rebound damping with a spring for your weight, and perhaps different fork springs or at least different preload spacers on the front. You might also like the forks with heavier fork oil. The Robem shock linkage and triple clamps cure some of the street-related compromises with the chassis geometry but they aren't essential. Steel-braided brake lines and brake pads with more grip will help to improve your braking but until you're testing your limits, not essential.

There is lots of info out there about tires. Any tire will work but tires intended for track days, and for use without warmers, will provide more feedback than what you're using. I use race slicks and warmers so I can't speak to specifics but if I were looking for a track day tire, I'd probably go with either Q3s or Pirelli TDs. However, getting tires at the track, along with advice on pressures, will take some of the guesswork out and may be more important than what brand you're using.

One other thing, crashing. You might want to think about case savers, frame sliders, and, perhaps, axle sliders. They help with protecting more important bits, at least with relatively low speed low sides. Rear sets will also protect the bike some, while allowing for a more aggressive posture on the bike. 

I expect others will chime in with better advice. Good luck!

[seven]

Just now, M. Hausknecht said:

At your level, suspension that suits your weight and riding style, and tires that give you reasonable feedback (more important than outright grip), are probably your best investments but not at the expense of well-spent track time. This means spring rates and damping that suit you and your tires. That probably means a shock with at least adjustable rebound damping with a spring for your weight, and perhaps different fork springs or at least different preload spacers on the front. You might also like the forks with heavier fork oil. The Robem shock linkage and triple clamps cure some of the street-related compromises with the chassis geometry but they aren't essential. Steel-braided brake lines and brake pads with more grip will help to improve your braking but until you're testing your limits, not essential.

There is lots of info out there about tires. Any tire will work but tires intended for track days, and for use without warmers, will provide more feedback than what you're using. I use race slicks and warmers so I can't speak to specifics but if I were looking for a track day tire, I'd probably go with either Q3s or Pirelli TDs. However, getting tires at the track, along with advice on pressures, will take some of the guesswork out and may be more important than what brand you're using.

One other thing, crashing. You might want to think about case savers, frame sliders, and, perhaps, axle sliders. They help with protecting more important bits, at least with relatively low speed low sides. Rear sets will also protect the bike some, while allowing for a more aggressive posture on the bike. 

I expect others will chime in with better advice. Good luck!

Thanks M.

I have axle sliders and frame sliders but am looking at either getting the case protectors or going for a cage like ImpakTech although for the MT-07 you have to replace the signals which is just another expense and I would rather spend the money elsewhere. I am considering how I could rig something temporary up though so the cage is not out of the question. I installed SS lines and EBC HH pads last year before even going to the track along with some slightly better fluid.

Yeah the guys at the track seem to really like the Q3+ for a bike doing dual duty and the Power 5 and Power GP was also suggested but after reading a bit more about the Power GP it really isn't suitable for my street needs.

I was thinking of leaving the front suspension alone for now as from what I have read on the forum the rear shock upgrade improves the bike as a whole and the front end feel improves. I suspect I would eventually go down that rabbit hole, but for now it maybe isn't essential and if let's me spread out the cost a bit.

As for rearsets, it is something that is on my radar (honestly I think all the parts are on my radar LOL) as I have scraped my toe a few times in the corners but at this point that is more that I hadn't pulled my foot fully back  to get my toes on the pegs. Rearset will be some future phase.

So it sounds like doing the shock now, along with tires maybe, wouldn't be an entirely bad decision then. But I would love to hear any other thoughts people have to say on the subject.

[stickshift]

The standard rearsets limit how far you can lean. I nearly had a big high speed crash at the track because of them. You might be ok - just be aware of their limits.

An aftermarket rear shock is a great modification to these bikes, regardless of what you're using it for. For occasional track fun I'd day an aftermarket shock linkage is overkill for a road ridden bike.

You'll want good grip from your tires, it provides an additional safety margin for when you make mistakes (we all do).

I use Bridgestone S22s and have been happy with them on road and track (medium-fast pace). Excellent grip and feel. Whatever tires you end up with make sure the pressure is adjusted for your track conditions.

Edited February 26, 2022 by stickshift

[seven]

1 hour ago, stickshift said:

I use Bridgestone S22s and have been happy with them on road and track (medium-fast pace). Excellent grip and feel. Whatever tires you end up with make sure the pressure is adjusted for your track conditions.

What sort of mileage do you get out of the S22's and what sort of conditions do you ride in? I don't typically ride when it is really cold (10C) but occasionally I do. I am curious how the S22's do in those conditions? I wouldn't be pushing the tires but just want something that isn't sketchy.

[stickshift]

3 hours ago, seven said:

What sort of mileage do you get out of the S22's and what sort of conditions do you ride in? I don't typically ride when it is really cold (10C) but occasionally I do. I am curious how the S22's do in those conditions? I wouldn't be pushing the tires but just want something that isn't sketchy.

The Michelin Road 4/5 are a great road tire that work well in virtually all conditions you'll experience on the road (hot, cold, wet etc). They're not a great track option (and aren't intended to be).

The S22s are nearly as good as the Michelin's on the road (I doubt most riders could tell a difference), but can handle track duties much better with very good edge grip at high temperature.

Mileage will depend more on how you ride than each of these tires specifically, it probably wouldn't be much different.

Edited February 27, 2022 by stickshift

[sweetscience]

I'm not a fan of rear shocks with tethered reservoirs.  The hose is a weak link and can leak at the crimps.  Ask me how I know.  Most brands with 3 adjusters (rebound, compression, preload)  have tethered reservoirs, due to the limited room in the MT 07 linkage area.  In the future I'll try the Bitubo shock part# Y0148XXT11, which incorporates a piggyback reservoir.   The piggyback reservoir is the underlying factor in this purchase.

For the forks, best bang for the buck is a Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 damper rod kit. 

 

[M. Hausknecht]

Not all 3-way adjustable shocks have tethered reservoirs. The K-Tech DDS Lite and DDS Pro have integral reservoirs that fit on the 07. They aren't cheap though. I've seen fully-adjustable Ohins shocks with integral reservoirs on 07s as well, but I don't have personal experience with an Ohlins on an 07.

[cornerslider]

On 2/25/2022 at 11:28 PM, seven said:

Looking to start some prep for the coming year on my 2019 MT-07 which I hope to have up to my local 1.3 mile track for 5 to 10 track days as well as it being my street bike. I know that I am not even at the limits of my bike as it is right now so not looking at any of these upgrades to "make me faster" as I know that it is my skills that need to improve to make that happen. However I like to tinker and I have heard lots on this forum that upgrading the shock is awesome even for a street bike so I have been thinking of getting a K-Tech Razor.

However I have heard some of you talk about getting a different shock linkage as well. Besides not fully appreciating what a different linkage really would do for me, I really don't have the funds for the Robem Engineering linkage - but damn it is a fine looking piece. Would a linkage be something to consider "down the road" and what, in layperson terms, are the benefits. I have read that it raises the back of the bike, improving the swingarm angle, which in turn sound like it improves handling/steering...if I understood it all correctly. Are there different linkages that serve different purposes?

So the next part, is tires. I am currently on Michelin Pilot Road 4 that have about 7000km on them including I think 6 track days and they still have lots of life in them from what I remember (the bike is still all tucked away for winter). Some guys at the track suggested upgrading my tires and I am happy to do that as I have always believed that tires are the single best modification you can do for a vehicle. However, when it came to cars at least, putting performance tires on and then overdriving those tires could result in burning them up really fast or even damaging them. Also having really sticky rubber can mask mistakes in driving technique, like learning to be really smooth with control inputs. As I am a novice track rider (literally at the bottom of the pack) I suspect I have a lot of learning I could do on the tires I have. However, I am curious if I am maybe missing out on other learning opportunities by not being on something a bit better like a Q3+, S22, Power 5 or ContiSport Attack 4?

I was once exactly where you are ..... You seem like you are going about this correctly, and asking VERY good questions. I've been a rider coach in my local area with a couple of different track day organizations. For getting started in track days, I recommend the Dunlop Q3+. You really can't go wrong with the Q3+.... If you run the Dunlop recommended pressures for track day use of:  32 psi front, and 30 psi rear, it just "works". I see you're from Canada, and don't know the metric conversion factors? It took me two seasons to "out-grow" the Q3+. Eventually, I got faster, and could feel the traction fading away into a slide. When that happened, it was very gradual/predictable, and never scared me. The tires just let me know, that I was overheating them.

As for suspension.... I own both a K-Tech Razor "Lite", and a Razor "R" (on different bikes). My personal opinion for track day use, is the The K-Tech Razor "Lite". Take the $300 you saved over the Razor "R", and apply it towards setting up the front end with the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit (Google it). They have been around for decades, and are top notch!!!! Be honest with them on your weight/ridding style, and they handle the rest. I bought mine a couple years ago for $399 USD. I checked recently, and they appear to be up to $499 USD. They would still be worth the $499 price if I had to buy them again-

Good luck in your next track adventure. This forum is a GREAT for researching information. Most the folks here are happy to help you out-

[cornerslider]

Just now, sweetscience said:

I'm not a fan of rear shocks with tethered reservoirs.  The hose is a weak link and can leak at the crimps.  Ask me how I know.  Most brands with 3 adjusters (rebound, compression, preload)  have tethered reservoirs, due to the limited room in the MT 07 linkage area.  In the future I'll try the Bitubo shock part# Y0148XXT11, which incorporates a piggyback reservoir.   The piggyback reservoir is the underlying factor in this purchase.

For the forks, best bang for the buck is a Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 damper rod kit. 

 

Last season, I had the K-Tech supplied bracket that holds the remote reservoir "fail" on it's second track day ... This dropped the hose between the shock and reservoir, to drop onto my rapidly moving chain.... None of the corner workers noticed it, and my chain wore through the hose!!!! Things got "bouncy" after that .... K-Tech wouldn't warranty it because they thought I may have broken the bracket during a "crash" (that never happened ) ... +1 on the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit - BEST money that you can spend on the front end....

[seven]

Just now, cornerslider said:

I was once exactly where you are ">..... You seem like you are going about this correctly, and asking VERY good questions. I've been a rider coach in my local area with a couple of different track day organizations. For getting started in track days, I recommend the Dunlop Q3+. You really can't go wrong with the Q3+.... If you run the Dunlop recommended pressures for track day use of:  32 psi front, and 30 psi rear, it just "works". I see you're from Canada, and don't know the metric conversion factors? It took me two seasons to "out-grow" the Q3+. Eventually, I got faster, and could feel the traction fading away into a slide. When that happened, it was very gradual/predictable, and never scared me. The tires just let me know, that I was overheating them.

As for suspension.... I own both a K-Tech Razor "Lite", and a Razor "R" (on different bikes). My personal opinion for track day use, is the The K-Tech Razor "Lite". Take the $300 you saved over the Razor "R", and apply it towards setting up the front end with the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit (Google it). They have been around for decades, and are top notch!!!! Be honest with them on your weight/ridding style, and they handle the rest. I bought mine a couple years ago for $399 USD. I checked recently, and they appear to be up to $499 USD. They would still be worth the $499 price if I had to buy them again-

Good luck in your next track adventure. This forum is a GREAT for researching information. Most the folks here are happy to help you out-

LOL, I ordered 2 sets of Q3+'s on Saturday. Your suspension suggestions are for sure one of the configurations I am looking at. And honestly I have also been thinking if just trying out the tires without any suspension changes and just take it slow. Maybe get part of ghe season done and reassess where things are at. I have a bunch of people from the track suggesting that I skip making changes to the MT-07 and consider saving for a dedicated track bike. But I like my bike and I am blissfully unaware of what else I am missing as I have never ridden another bike.

Just now, cornerslider said:

Last season, I had the K-Tech supplied bracket that holds the remote reservoir "fail" on it's second track day ">... This dropped the hose between the shock and reservoir, to drop onto my rapidly moving chain.... None of the corner workers noticed it, and my chain wore through the hose!!!! Things got "bouncy" after that ">.... K-Tech wouldn't warranty it because they thought I may have broken the bracket during a "crash" (that never happened ) ">... +1 on the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit ">- BEST money that you can spend on the front end....

Oh man that would suck and you are lucky you didn't have a huge wreck. 

[cornerslider]

Your FZ/MT-07 CAN be your dedicated track bike...... My FZ-07 was my dedicated track bike from 2017- (early) 2021... After my "bracket failure" on my K-Tech Razor "R", I had no choice but to "sacrifice" my street R3, (parts/supply chain issues)  as I needed a bike to coach with.... In all honesty- I new (without a doubt) that I was going to HATE my R3 on a track as big as BIR.... I went into that weekend with a bad attitude, and thought I was "settling" for my R3 on a fast track.  I could NOT have been more wrong!!!! After one weekend on the R3, I made the choice to make my FZ-07 "legal" again. I love my FZ-07 on the street, and I love my R3 on the track. Not everyone will agree with me on this (and I really don't care?). Do what is right for YOU, and NEVER look back -