FZ07 show plastic is used on the R7 to stiffen the frame ?

[TMTYWSH]

I've read that this FZ/MT 07 engine plastic guard side piece is used on the new R7 to add stiffness to the frame (it's metal and possibly attached differently). I don't know exactly what they are talking about, but I've included a picture and maybe someone here can explain what is different and if it's possible to do it on our mt07s (do we even need it)?

 

FZ07 pictures (mine is not really attached), it looks like an engine guard and just for show. R7 pic included - clearly connected in a different way.

 

 

 

 

 

Did any of you MT07 club racers try to mod your frame for stiffness?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by TMTYWSH
added R7 picture

[br4nd0n]

On the new R7, the metal piece is larger and bolts on at the bottom near the swing arm bolt and the upper section bolts on the subframe further back where the passenger peg would be on the MT-07

[yamahazaki]

The 2015 model, it is made out of metal.  You seriously telling me that is plastic on the newer models?

[stickshift]

I've wondered myself whether the R7 parts can be fitted to the MT07, I can't really work it out until I take a look in person.

Edited October 29, 2021 by stickshift

[Weeksy]

1 hour ago, yamahazaki said:

The 2015 model, it is made out of metal.  You seriously telling me that is plastic on the newer models?

The piece he has shown in pic 1 is 100% plastic and completely non structural, just aesthetics.

[robbo10]

I thought it was just  a pretty thing to cover ugly framework on the 07. 

[Weeksy]

Just now, robbo10 said:

I thought it was just  a pretty thing to cover ugly framework on the 07. 

Certainly what it appears to be. I took mine off last week to fit the Abba stand, it's just standard pressed plastic. It makes the frame look prettier but you can bet your arse it does nothing else.

[stickshift]

6 hours ago, Weeksy said:

The piece he has shown in pic 1 is 100% plastic and completely non structural, just aesthetics.

On my 2016 it’s metal (alloy), but yes just there for aesthetics.

Edited October 29, 2021 by stickshift

[shinyribs]

8 hours ago, yamahazaki said:

The 2015 model, it is made out of metal.  You seriously telling me that is plastic on the newer models?

My thoughts, too.

Yeah, the early covers were cast aluminum. I took mine off because I didn't like wearing fake frame spars on a trellis frame bike, but they were nicely made pieces. Seems cheesy that they moved to plastic, but I guess any weight savings is a good thing. Would be nice if that was reflected in the pricing, though. 

[Triple Jim]

20 minutes ago, shinyribs said:

Would be nice if that was reflected in the pricing, though. 

It may be.  It's hard to know of course.  They made various changes for 2021, and many of them added cost, so they could have been trying to save a little money here and there to minimize the price increase.

[yamahazaki]

I don't want to live in a world where Yamaha cheapened that out into a plastic piece because if that is so, this world surely is f@#ked.

[Triple Jim]

15 minutes ago, yamahazaki said:

I don't want to live in a world where Yamaha cheapened that out into a plastic piece because if that is so, this world surely is f@#ked.

 Any motorcycle design is a big bunch of tradeoffs.  Yamaha knows exactly how to build a top quality motorcycle... the absolute best, but if they did, almost no one would want to pay the very high price it would cost.  Every part on our FZ/MT-07s was chosen to perform well at a low price.  I'm OK with that, and I think they did a darned good job.

[shinyribs]

If they haven't been aluminum ( or even present ) originally then we probably wouldn't even be bothered by it. Knowing the difference can mess with your perception. 

Let's call it composite polymer instead of plastic then. Sounds posh

[klx678]

16 hours ago, yamahazaki said:

 I don't want to live in a world where Yamaha cheapened that out into a plastic piece because if that is so, this world surely is f@#ked.

It's just a plastic piece to cover up where the frame is kinda ugly.  XSR has it too.  How do you feel about your fuel tank cover?  Do you consider it cheapened because it's not aluminum?  

I mean hey, the aluminum tank panels on the XSR apparently added quite a bit to the price considering they have a parts list price of $400 each.   I don't think they are really $800 worth of improvement by any means.  But they did it and I like the XSR so I paid.

 Funny part too is that most riders think the XSR is ugly because it doesn't have plastic covers over the sides above the frame, allowing the brake reservoir, air box, etc to show.   Half the riders who buy them run out and buy a bunch of covers.   I know I'd like a piece of industrial structural looking metal in that swingarm pivot area, but it sure wasn't a stopper for me.  I like the open mechanical looking thing.   Kind of reminds me of street rods, when I look under the hood (bonnet for you in the UK, right?)  I'd like to see the carbs, EFI, supercharger, etc.  I want to see valve covers and headers.  Not a bunch of covers making it look like there's another hood under the hood.   Kind of like my bikes that way too, being a flat track fan.   I do get the cover up for road racing, which wouldn't be there if it wasn't for aerodynamics.

Either way, no big deal that Yamaha covers an ugly juncture in the frame with a plastic cover.  They probably did the first ones in alloy because they didn't want to pay the cost to make the molds for the plastic until they knew the bike was gonna sell.  

 

[firstyammerha]

mine didn't fit back properly after installing the SW Motech center stand so I left them off. I rationalize this action by thinking  it's allowing more air onto my shock.

[DewMan]

26 minutes ago, firstyammerha said:

mine didn't fit back properly after installing the SW Motech center stand so I left them off. I rationalize this action by thinking  it's allowing more air onto my shock.

Are you talking on your FZ/MT07? What model year is it? I had no issues putting the trim pieces back after installing the the SWMOtech centerstand on my '17. 

[firstyammerha]

Mine is a 2016 Fz07 and those pieces didn't mate with their original positions. As I recall this was lower down near the swing arm pivot. I have the pieces out in my shed and don't feel like walking out there to test fit them again so I'm relying on memory. Anyway, the lack of these parts doesn't bother me and I like the way my "cooler" shock is working.

[yamahazaki]

7 hours ago, klx678 said:

It's just a plastic piece to cover up where the frame is kinda ugly.  XSR has it too.  How do you feel about your fuel tank cover?  Do you consider it cheapened because it's not aluminum?  

 

My beef is it went from metal to plastic.  Not start from plastic.  See, if it was already plastic, then this wouldn't even come up.

Upgrades are great, everyone will appreciate it (MT03 has a metal fender and upside forks!).  Downgraded parts are no bueno.  Maybe its a form of childhood trauma to me, it doesn't sit well.  I recall various things in my life where certain toys, don't know, maybe it was GI Joe or whatnot.  Or Transformers, no clue where they were built solid.  And then 10 years later they still produce the same exact toy but instead of metal parts, it is entirely out of plastic and it just made me whince in pain on how they got so cheap.  So I have this extremely bad reaction where 1st gen bike has metal part, and later version has plastic?  Ugh.  Sorry, no talking me out of it, it is a cheap route to go.  And what is worse is the part COSTS MORE!!?  Yes, I looked it up.  It costs more than the original part, like 9 dollars more if you order both TODAY, the original 2015 part, and the 2020 part.  I dearly hope those 2 forum newbies just have no clue what they are talking about and it is in fact still made out of aluminum or alloy.  Maybe there is still a hero out there to prove them wrong.

Edited October 30, 2021 by yamahazaki

[klx678]

Think what you want, that's fine, but...

You think fairings, fenders and side covers should all be metal on sport bikes?  That it was a downgrade to save weight and cost by going to plastics on the fenders of the sportier model motorcycles?  Most all went from metal front fenders to plastic, the cowls on many are plastic, where the earlier bikes were metal, like the Z1 tail section in plastic with the H2 tail section in steel.   Really, plastic in a non-stressed panel makes total sense in that it is lighter, easier to mass produce, costs less, and is relatively inexpensive to replace should it be damaged.   

It was an upgrade when sport bikes went from metal fenders to plastic.   I think you're a bit off course comparing these cosmetic covers to toys like transformers.  Kids beat the snot out of their transformer toys, but if some kid throws one it won't hurt near as bad when it hits the other kid.  Helmets for the military were all steel, now since around 1980 a composite plastic that has better ergonomics and protection.   Even cars, going from formed steel bumpers to plastic molded parts over the necessary heavy bumper saves a huge amount of money and weight.       I'm comparing to what I lived through with motorcycles and cars now, having grown up in the 50s-60s.      A 1950s car had steel dash boards, no padding, now they are mostly various types of plastic saving weight and adding safety.  

When I started riding motorcycles off road, the fuel tanks, fenders, and side panels on off road motorcycles were steel or aluminum and easily damaged.  Then someone (Preston Petty for one) came along and made virtually unbreakable fenders out of plastic.  The manufacturers started doing the same along with plastic side number plates.  Never had to buy or hammer out a front fender since.   A variety of companies made plastic tanks that could take being hammered without denting (metal) or breaking (fiberglass) .  Another thing that was a blessing for off roaders.  some street bikes are using plastic fuel tanks.

Now if you want a 475 lb MT-07 make all the stuff out of metal.    But reality is the more non-stressed plastic pieces in place of metal on a motorcycle will result in less weight making for better performance.    

Edited October 30, 2021 by klx678

[br4nd0n]

I think his main point is that they are being cheap and charging more for a the plastic piece than the metal one. When you look at all of the "motorcycle" parts companies sell and realize the actual cost, you realize that it's excessively overpriced.

[mjh937]

Actually they are charging the same price for the plastic and the metal parts when I just checked.  I agree the plastic one should be cheaper, but overall I have been very happy with how inexpensive the parts I have bought for my bike have been. 

[klx678]

12 hours ago, br4nd0n said:

I think his main point is that they are being cheap and charging more for a the plastic piece than the metal one. When you look at all of the "motorcycle" parts companies sell and realize the actual cost, you realize that it's excessively overpriced.

Until you actually know the cost to make a part for production, plus the cost for warehousing if the part is going to replacement inventory, you will have a hard time proving they're overpriced.    Expensive, yes but overpriced only can be if the costs are known.  I think they're expensive, but hardly overpriced.   I bought an XSR headlight bucket for $33, others are buying MT front fenders and they're under $50, hardly overpriced.  But $400 for one side tank cover is a bit expensive.   

Edited October 31, 2021 by klx678

[seven]

Other than looks I assumed that part, at least on the left side, was to prevent stuff from getting into the sprocket...like a pant leg or your laces.

[robbo10]

I consider that the trick is for manufacturers to make stuff from plastic but make it look decent material. I borrowed a Honda 500f and all its folds and fancy shapes were ghastly-looking grey plastic. i think Yamaha did rather well in that respect with my 2014 MT-07. 

[shinyribs]

Yeah, the textures on the plastics on my '16 give the bike a really nice, finished look to them. 

I'm also a dirt bike guy, where everything is clad in plastic, so I might be prone to be accepting of plastic than other. However, having an actual metal tank on my 09 does feel...right. Although, I'm glad these bikes aren't weighted down with metal fenders as that's unnecessary IMO. 

 

The first gen 07 plastic front fenders are beautiful pieces, and very well made. The later gen fenders I feel are a cheap out, though.