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foochi

Chain replacement | How much links?

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foochi

I might have to replace my chain. It's pretty stiff and hold it's shape, it has at 10k miles on it and wasn't very well kept from previous owner. There are some surface rust spots but I keep it cleaned and lubed. Will I need to change it out?

If I do, I know I need 525 for stock but how much link should I get it with?

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bartman5impson

If it's just surface rust it's probably fine.

OEM chain is 108 links and the gold plated RK chain I replaced it with seems to be more rust resistant

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foochi
11 minutes ago, bartman5impson said:

If it's just surface rust it's probably fine.

OEM chain is 108 links and the gold plated RK chain I replaced it with seems to be more rust resistant

Cool, thanks. This one should be common sense but I really don't know so here it goes. A lot of these changes have 110 links, I'm guess I can just knock/cut 2 off?

Is it supposed to be stiff though? I don't want to have to change it if I don't have to (due to monies). 

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Triple Jim

An O-ring chain is stiff compared to a non-O-ring chain, but not so stiff that it is difficult to bend around the sprockets.  One test might be to see if all the links are about equally stiff.  When chains get a few extra-stiff links it's time to replace them.

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Lone Wolf
4 hours ago, foochi said:

... A lot of these changes have 110 links, I'm guess I can just knock/cut 2 off?

Is it supposed to be stiff though? I don't want to have to change it if I don't have to (due to monies). 

See if it is stretched. Lot's of good info on youtube about that.

If it is not stretched, lube the heck out of it. OEM chains are generally regarded as much shorter lived than aftermarket, even by the same mfgr. OEM chains are part of the cost cutting on new bikes, across the boards. So your original chain with 10k may be near end of life, especially if it wasn't maintained by Prior Owner.

No you don't have to cut links for the new chain - reputable suppliers will allow you to specify the length you need.

You get what you pay for with chains, cheap ones are cheap for a reason. Get the best you can afford.

These people are reputable https://sprocketcenter.com/

They have a page devoted to the MT-07 FZ-07 https://sprocketcenter.com/street-sprocket-applications/yamaha/fz-07-2015-2019.html

This video helped me quite a bit with my chain replacements 

 

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foochi
On 10/11/2021 at 6:22 PM, Triple Jim said:

An O-ring chain is stiff compared to a non-O-ring chain, but not so stiff that it is difficult to bend around the sprockets.  One test might be to see if all the links are about equally stiff.  When chains get a few extra-stiff links it's time to replace them.

They bend find around sprockets. I ended up going with Dave Moss's video on youtube regarding stretched chain check and so far all I got is some side to side play, it does touch the tire when I push it but it's pretty tight. I don't think I need to swap it out immediately but at least it gives me time to do some research on chains.

 

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foochi
On 10/11/2021 at 7:24 PM, Lone Wolf said:

See if it is stretched. Lot's of good info on youtube about that.

If it is not stretched, lube the heck out of it. OEM chains are generally regarded as much shorter lived than aftermarket, even by the same mfgr. OEM chains are part of the cost cutting on new bikes, across the boards. So your original chain with 10k may be near end of life, especially if it wasn't maintained by Prior Owner.

No you don't have to cut links for the new chain - reputable suppliers will allow you to specify the length you need.

You get what you pay for with chains, cheap ones are cheap for a reason. Get the best you can afford.

These people are reputable https://sprocketcenter.com/

They have a page devoted to the MT-07 FZ-07 https://sprocketcenter.com/street-sprocket-applications/yamaha/fz-07-2015-2019.html

This video helped me quite a bit with my chain replacements 

 

I think I have some time to research and figure out which chain to use.

I had planned to order from cycle gear online but most of their chains are at 110 120 etc. I don't think they had the option to specify my needs beyond the drop down selection.

I'll check your links out. Thank you

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Lone Wolf
On 10/11/2021 at 3:11 PM, foochi said:

I don't want to have to change it if I don't have to (due to monies). 

If Money is tight, I would take a close look at the sprockets. Usually the front is the first to go.

It's not a "high miles" bike, so I would decide if I want to SAVE the sprockets before they are toast, or let them go along with the chain and just keep everything well lubricated for another season.

If you totally ignore a bad chain it can break on you, and I learned that the hard way years ago.

 

Worn-front-sprocket_2.jpg

Worn-front-sprocket.jpg.f505ce9813ecce51407b6f9abe76d921.jpg

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foochi
12 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

If Money is tight, I would take a close look at the sprockets. Usually the front is the first to go.

It's not a "high miles" bike, so I would decide if I want to SAVE the sprockets before they are toast, or let them go along with the chain and just keep everything well lubricated for another season.

If you totally ignore a bad chain it can break on you, and I learned that the hard way years ago.

The rear looks good IMO. I'll have to take the cover off in the front to check the smaller one. I'll snap pics of both. Thank you

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foochi

For the front sprocket, I thought that little lip was metal pushed up but it was just dirty wax.

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foochi

I'd be willing to replace the sprockets and chain if I must. Riding safe is the goal.

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Lone Wolf
2 minutes ago, foochi said:

I'd be willing to replace the sprockets and chain if I must. Riding safe is the goal.

At 10k miles, and your photos, it is not "unsafe".

I can see the wear "starting" but it's not to the point it would damage a new chain.

The front definitely has more of a wear mark and slight indent from chain roller (where it looks polished and shiny), and that is typical to show more wear on the front.

You said money is tight - so that is a factor.  If the chain is serviceable, I would probably get some more miles out of the existing set and replace all of it when you can afford it.  

Then again that back sprocket looks great. if you want to try and save it you could change the front sprocket and chain. 

Part of my focus, again is if the chain is stretched. As a chain wears (internally, rollers are bearings) it gets longer.  The lengthened chain doesn't sit as well on the sprockets, and causes more wear on the sprockets.

The Dave Moss thing of pushing the chain sideways will tell you if the chain is totally shot, but you really need to check the other ways too like if you can pull it away from the rear sprocket (shouldn't pull away much at all) and you can measure length as it says in that Canyon Chasers video and this article.

new-chain-600x315.png

How do you know when your chain needs to be replaced? Go to your rear sprocket and pull straight back on the chain. If your chain pulls away from the sprockets by much, it is probably stretched out. If...

 

Chain stretch measure.png

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shinyribs

Lone Wolf is shooting you straight. Your sprockets are fine, don't replace them. There's a myth pervading the internet that chains and sprockets MUST be changed together. It's people not understanding the mechanics of how a chain drive system works that keep pushing this myth. The short version, if you run a chain too long or too tight you will deform the sprockets, then a new chain on those deformed sprockets gets ruined. The caveat is, you first have to run the chain too tight or too long. Your sprockets show zero sign of either. 

I put 25k miles on my stock sprockets and wore out a chain. Replaced the chain, sprockets still look new. These factory sprockets are very good quality. It's not the first I've seen sprockets outlast chains. It happens a lot. One close friend has a '96 VFR that's well over 60,000 miles now. That bike has gone through three chains, but the original sprockets are still perfectly fine. Steel sprockets last incredibly long. 

Also, in the interest of saving money, making life easier on yourself and removing a variable...don't let the internet make your afraid of clip style master links. How the myth persists that they are dangerous on street bikes boggles my mind. Again, there are NO mechanical forces trying to pull that side plate off a chain. Anyone that says high horsepower can unclip a chain isn't paying attention.  You HAVE to install the clip in the right direction, but that's easy. 

The reason bikes come stock with endless (riveted) chains is cost. Clips are an extra part that an employee has to assemble. Endless chains can be thrown on in a flash. They're not inherently stronger. 

IMO, as the internet stranger with nothing to gain, grab you a $60 Firepower chain with a clip and rock on. If can manage to spend a little more, D.I.D. , Regina, RK/EK are known to be quality, but can really drive the cost up. Also, buying a "pre-cut" 108 link chain can cost more than a universal chain that comes in 120 link length ( usually 120, sometimes it varies). You don't need an expensive chain tool to cut a chain. An and grinder ( hand file works just as well) a hammer and a punch are all you need. 

 

I'm a stranger on the internet with nothing to gain. I get annoyed seeing people talked in to throwing money at things. If your bike is your baby and you enjoy showering it with gifts, that's perfectly fine. Just don't justify it as a safety concern and urge others to do the same. After decades of wearing out chains on motorcycles, and being a lifelong mechanic, I'll take a clip style master link any day. 

Or scrub your chain good with Grunge brush and kerosene and see if it loosens up for you. Once they go stuff you often can reverse it. Dried/hardened orings are gonna happen over time, regardless of miles or maintenance. 

Good luck, and be safe out there ✌️

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foochi

I appreciate the insight and wisdom! Forgive me if I respond with very little words but I'm definitely absorbing and considering what you both are telling me.

 

I went out and checked measurements but I noticed something. I don't think oem chains are D.I.D., right? I found this

IMG_8880.thumb.JPG.dc429ef76f42da8926f7b59f8cd40b8a.JPG

 

 

Also, I don't even think this is a 525 stock size chain as the distance between 15 pins are a shorter than 256.5mm

IMG_8889.thumb.JPG.8a3e454d2464cc5fed9955cb93d33053.JPG

 

I'm the third owner of this bike, I picked it up when it was low 9xxx miles. I'm still under 11xxx miles. It's a 2015, the person I bought it from knew very little to close to nothing about this bike. There were a handful of things done to this bike but it was mostly cosmetic besides the exhaust but now it looks like there was a little more done?

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shinyribs

DID was stock chain. 

Easy way to measure a chain is to understand the system. It's all based on 1/8 inch increments. 

A 500 series chain ( 520, 525, 530) will measure 5 eights of an inch (5/8") from pin to pin, measuring on center. 

The last two digits of the number ( 20, 25, 30) tells the width between the plates, or the width of the sprocket tooth. 

20= two eighths, 2/8" or a 1/4"

25= is two and a half eighths, or 5/16"

30= is three eighths or 3/8"

The pull test Lone Wolf mentioned earlier is the best and most foolproof method for measuring the length of your chain. 

If using a ruler, 5/8" is .625" in decimal form. So 10 links would be 6.25". 

 

 

Edited by shinyribs
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foochi
6 hours ago, shinyribs said:

DID was stock chain. 

Easy way to measure a chain is to understand the system. It's all based on 1/8 inch increments. 

A 500 series chain ( 520, 525, 530) will measure 5 eights of an inch (5/8") from pin to pin, measuring on center. 

The last two digits of the number ( 20, 25, 30) tells the width between the plates, or the width of the sprocket tooth. 

20= two eighths, 2/8" or a 1/4"

25= is two and a half eighths, or 5/16"

30= is three eighths or 3/8"

The pull test Lone Wolf mentioned earlier is the best and most foolproof method for measuring the length of your chain. 

If using a ruler, 5/8" is .625" in decimal form. So 10 links would be 6.25".

Hah! Got it. I hyped myself up thinking I bought this bike with even more mods I never knew about. It's a 525, I'll be going easy on the miles in the mean time while I shop for a replacement chain. Thank you both!

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Lone Wolf
9 hours ago, foochi said:

...Also, I don't even think this is a 525 stock size chain as the distance between 15 pins are a shorter than 256.5mm

If you look closely at the article I posted, it doesn't say 15 pins. It says 

  • The mathematical way to measure chain wear is to measure sixteen pins, not links. If the distance between the pins is greater than 256.5mm then the chain is outside of it’s wear limit.

That would be 10.1 inches distance.  I usually just grab the chain at the back of the sprocket and pull, see if it moves very far out from where it was seated (video shows that). When you put a new chain on a bike and do that, you have a better feel for what is is when it is new - and when it is toast. 

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