Julian Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) Or whatever the technical term for it is, I'm talking about the guy in the picture. I experimented with the free play and right now the "clutch arm" is about perpendicular to the clutch casing, maybe a little bit forward clockwise. At that setting I have a little bit of free play at the lever. The reason why I'm asking is that after I pull in the clutch and release, the lever doesn't return to the fully extended position i.e. the slack stays at the lever and is not taken in by the clutch arm. I definitely don't have too much slack and if I push the lever out with my hand, it moves easily and the excess is taken in at the clutch. It just doesn't do it on its own although there isn't any notable friction anywhere. On a neighbor's Honda that is parked next to mine, the clutch always takes up the slack when the lever is realesed. The lever always returns to the fully extended position. Edited October 10, 2021 by Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klx678 Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Opinion based on what bit I know... The freeplay in the cable is probably irrelevant, there is that hair spring pulling the lever back to disengage the throw out bearing (car talk, not sure what they call it in bikes, never learned that) that disengages the clutch. That lever will likely only have a certain amount of travel and it has hit that limit, so any other slack will be in the cable. If everything is clean, the spring on the lever is relieving the pressure on the throw out bearing (car talk again) enough to avoid any remote chance of issues. I have short reach hands so I run a shade more play in my clutch cable, which usually shows in the cable at the lever, it doesn't return totally to the perch. It may seem loose to others, but over the years I find it right and have never trashed a clutch, so I'm happy. I know why so I don't care, it doesn't have to be against the perch. Again, my opinion, not God's word. Open to read any additional thoughts here... kind of how we learn more, develop thought processes, and learn when we may be right/wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Jim Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Mine is the same as yours, Julian. When I release the handlebar lever it returns, but the clutch lever doesn't pull all the slack out of the cable. If I reach down an give it a shove, then the cable pulls tight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) So that sounds like a little design failure or "feature" of our bikes. Actually that arm can travel back quite a bit more if fed slack, but it doesn't have the force to take in that slack on its own. It doesn't look like that hair spring is doing anything. On the Honda the slack is taken in easily although there is no visible spring. Edited October 10, 2021 by Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Jim Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) I figure the spring is just to keep the ball on the clutch cable end seated in the hole in the clutch arm bracket. Edited October 10, 2021 by Triple Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share Posted October 10, 2021 51 minutes ago, Triple Jim said: I figure the spring is just to keep the ball on the clutch cable end seated in the hole in the clutch arm bracket. Jim, I can't believe that can be the only function of that spring. Actually there was an MT-03 parked outside my building just now and on it it seems to work as expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Jim Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 The main clutch springs do the work of engaging the clutch and returning that lever when the handlebar lever is released. If that external spring were stronger it would pull the slack out of the cable, but any force from that spring makes the clutch lever take more force to pull. I'll have to notice next time I'm riding, but I bet the vibration from running gets the slack out. Without the external spring the mushroom on the cable end would move around in its bracket from vibration, and it's just a blob of lead so it would slowly wear. I don't think it's odd that the main purpose of the spring is to keep that cable end seated. I have never noticed a problem of cable slack or clutch feel when riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Julian said: Or whatever the technical term for it is, I'm talking about the guy in the picture. I experimented with the free play and right now the "clutch arm" is about perpendicular to the clutch casing, maybe a little bit forward clockwise. At that setting I have a little bit of free play at the lever. The reason why I'm asking is that after I pull in the clutch and release, the lever doesn't return to the fully extended position i.e. the slack stays at the lever and is not taken in by the clutch arm. I definitely don't have too much slack and if I push the lever out with my hand, it moves easily and the excess is taken in at the clutch. It just doesn't do it on its own although there isn't any notable friction anywhere. On a neighbor's Honda that is parked next to mine, the clutch always takes up the slack when the lever is realesed. The lever always returns to the fully extended position. The spring on the clutch arm lever ( not the handlebar lever) isn't there to pull the clutch cable tightly/constantly rearward. If it did, it'd keep constant tension on the cable, making it impossible to have free play at the hand lever. That arm will only rotate rearward until all internal clutch mechanism slack is taken up. The hand lever should never fully extend to seat against it's mount in the handlebar perch. If your neighbor's Honda's clutch lever is extending that far forward then his clutch cable is adjusted too tight and he'll likely kill his clutch plates. That is, if it's a cable bike. If his clutch is hydraulic then they don't run with and slack at the hand lever anyway. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Edited October 10, 2021 by shinyribs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share Posted October 10, 2021 Guys, think of a gun trigger. When you start pulling it it offers some resistance but it's very light. Yet it's enough to return the trigger to the initial position if you remove your finger. Then as you pull it you get to a point where you encounter more resistance and that's where it's ready to fire. You need to make a more deliberate effort to fire. That's how it feels on that Honda and I think that's how it should be ideally. That light initial pull doesn't have any effect on the strong clutch springs and it only operates beyond the range of the clutch springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Are you trying to eliminate free play at the hand lever? If yes, don't. They require slack there. If you're talking about how the engagement zone feels, yeah, every one is different. The one on my new bike is taking some getting used to. I never had a Honda that I didn't like the clutch on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Moderator Pursuvant Posted October 11, 2021 Global Moderator Share Posted October 11, 2021 In my bike walkabout b4 every ride, I put my hand on the clutch arm an move it back in forth while watching the handlebar lever to make sure I got a little play because, yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted October 11, 2021 Author Share Posted October 11, 2021 9 hours ago, shinyribs said: Are you trying to eliminate free play at the hand lever? If yes, don't. They require slack there. If you're talking about how the engagement zone feels, yeah, every one is different. The one on my new bike is taking some getting used to. I never had a Honda that I didn't like the clutch on. No I don't want to eliminate free play, I think I was very clear on that. I'm talking about how the free play should feel. I think the free play should still feel springy and return to the initial position easily as it happens on other motorcycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Jim Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 5 hours ago, Julian said: I think the free play should still feel springy and return to the initial position easily as it happens on other motorcycles. If that's important to you, maybe you can reshape the external spring a little to make it push harder on the clutch actuator lever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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