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5d 46 error


cruzian3

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So I looked up the error code and it means charging problem.  

Assuming it's the stator, he's my question.   Is it enough to just replace the stator assembly or do I also replace the rotor at the same time?

TIA

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What about the easy thing first, have you checked the regulator?

The charging voltage is the measured output voltage of the rectifier/regulator which can also be out of specification because of a malfunction.
The output voltage should be around 14V @ 5000 rpm. You can measure it directly at the battery terminals. Be careful, stop the engine if the voltage exceeds 14.8V...then theres a problem with the regulating part.

 

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19 minutes ago, ElGonzales said:

What about the easy thing first, have you checked the regulator?

The charging voltage is the measured output voltage of the rectifier/regulator which can also be out of specification because of a malfunction.
The output voltage should be around 14V @ 5000 rpm. You can measure it directly at the battery terminals. Be careful, stop the engine if the voltage exceeds 14.8V...then theres a problem with the regulating part.

 

Thank you ElGonzales.  I put my bike on a trickle charger right after I got home so it was reading 12.77 right off the bat. Then I turned the key without starting the engine and it read 12.69.  I started the engine and it dropped down to 12.45.  I revved the engine good and it never went over 12.5.  I would've thought it should hit in the 14 range.   

So what might that mean?

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I only had the trickle charger on there for 1.5 hours.  

 

I'll let it charge up first and try it again.   If it didn't charge higher than 13.0v I'll replace the battery before looking into the stator.   

 

But I'm guessing I can rule out the reg/rect.

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Maybe your stator delivers the correct AC voltage, but the rectifier/regulator module fails the correct transformation to DC.

12.5 V with engine running in higher rpms is to low. 

The service manual gives the advice to check the stator by measuring the electrical resistance of it's 3 coils. This is done within 5 Minutes. If they are out of spec you can rule out everything else.

It would be great to know what AC Output Voltage of the stator we can expect. I guess around 70-80V (minimum, hazardous to touch!) but I haven't found informations.



 

Edited by ElGonzales
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I checked the bike just now, the damn battery is now at 12.1.  I started thinking when was the last time I changed the battery.  Checked my records.  Umm ... never.  It's a 2015 with 81,000 miles.   I guess what threw me off was the error code.   I've had dead batteries before but never got a warning with an error code. 

🤣  Time to go Yuasa shopping.  

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They come in the shop all the time, " it won't whatever it must be the cran...". Nope bad battery or dirty/loose cables, same code.

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1 hour ago, cruzian3 said:

I revved the engine good and it never went over 12.5.  I would've thought it should hit in the 14 range.   

Assuming your trickle charger can get it over 12.5, that is proof that the charging system has a problem. 

Edited by Triple Jim
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1 minute ago, Triple Jim said:

That is proof that the charging system has a problem. 

huh.  so what you're saying is that I could possibly have a bad battery as well as a bad stator?

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A problem with your charging system, not necessarily with your stator, as has been stated above. 

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Not neccessarily a bad stator, but the charging system is failing somewhere. Triple Jim is right, if a charger can charge the battery then the bike should be able to as well, because you've seen that the battery can accept charge.

3 minutes ago, cruzian3 said:

huh.  so what you're saying is that I could possibly have a bad battery as well as a bad stator?

 

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2 minutes ago, Triple Jim said:

A problem with your charging system, not necessarily with your stator, as has been stated above. 

Got it.   but I'm not a mechanic.  What makes up the charging system?  Based on the above can I rule out the reg/rect?  If so,  other than the stator/rotor what else is there?

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3 minutes ago, shinyribs said:

Not neccessarily a bad stator, but the charging system is failing somewhere. Triple Jim is right, if a charger can charge the battery then the bike should be able to as well, because you've seen that the battery can accept charge.

 

my battery went from 12.7v and is now at 12.1v with the 4amp trickle on it.  Am I wrong to still think my charger is NOT charging my battery? You lost me. 

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1 minute ago, cruzian3 said:

my battery went from 12.7v and is now at 12.1v with the 4amp trickle on it.  Am I wrong to still think my charger is NOT charging my battery? You lost me. 

You mentioned earlier that you used a charger and that the battery voltage went up. Is it not doing that anymore? 

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1 minute ago, shinyribs said:

You mentioned earlier that you used a charger and that the battery voltage went up. Is it not doing that anymore? 

I had to bump start my bike twice in order to make it home.   After I got home I plugged it in but forgot to look at the current state.   So I can't say after the 1.5 hours that went by whether it went up or not.  

But it was at 12.7 when I did the reg/rect test.   And currently it's at 12.1v

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Okay.  I'm gonna replace the battery regardless since it's on its last legs anyway.

My original question still stands.  Is it sufficient to simply replace the Stator Assembly or do you recommend changing the Rotor at the same time?  

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Yeah, sooner or later a new battery is due anyway

The rotor is a piece of metal with magnets in it. I see no reason to change it without any visible damages like a full crash with the stator. A beginning loss of magnetism happens at vintage bikes after maybe 50 (?) years. But hey, sometimes the crankshaft turns and  the rotor is loose on it, then with bad luck you have to change the rotor AND the crankshaft  :D 

The stator mostly fails because of a burned isolation between the wires of the coils -> internal short circuit.  You can often measure this directly.

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50 minutes ago, cruzian3 said:

Got it.   but I'm not a mechanic.  What makes up the charging system?  Based on the above can I rule out the reg/rect?  If so,  other than the stator/rotor what else is there?

Rotor, stator, rectifier/regulator, wiring and connectors.  If there's a failure that's not wiring or connectors, the first thing to check is the regulator.  Stators rarely just fail, and as @ElGonzalessaid, you can get a good idea about the stator's condition by measuring its winding resistances and comparing them to the values in the manual.

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95% of charging issues is reg/rec failing or a connection issue between the stator and the r/r. Stators rarely fail, but anything's possible. 

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@shinyribs Thank you for your response.  Based on what has already said, paying attention to the reg/rectifier test that @ElGonzales described and the results that I posted would you  start with the reg/rectifier if this was your bike?

I've already replaced the battery and the guy from batteriesPlus said that it was within spec but it was near its end of life. 

I repeated the same test with the multimeter.  Starting with 13.2v.  Then 12.78v with key on.   Then 12.1v with engine on.   Revving it never produced more than 12.5v.  

Ordering a new regulator is no big deal but due to the fact that Revving the engine did not cause the voltage to break 13.4v leads me to believe it's not the regulator.   

So by adding a comment that 95% of all charging failures are due to the reg/rec knowing what has already been said makes me think you would start by replacing the reg/rectifier.  Keep in mind it's $100+ and time without a bike during shipping.

@shinyribs what would you do as your next step ?

Fyi, I'm not confident/competent enough to perform the stator test mentioned above.   All I'm good for is ordering and replacing.

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35 minutes ago, cruzian3 said:

Ordering a new regulator is no big deal but due to the fact that Revving the engine did not cause the voltage to break 13.4v leads me to believe it's not the regulator.

Regulators do not just reduce charging current and cause overvoltage when they fail.  A regulator failure often results in no or very little charging current.

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1 hour ago, cruzian3 said:

 

As someone has already said,  check the simple things first. You can take your battery and have it checked. Simple and cost  nothing.

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2 hours ago, cruzian3 said:

@shinyribs @ElGonzales

I repeated the same test with the multimeter.  Starting with 13.2v.  Then 12.78v with key on.   Then 12.1v with engine on.   Revving it never produced more than 12.5v.  

 

@shinyribs

Fyi, I'm not confident/competent enough to perform the stator test mentioned above.   All I'm good for is ordering and replacing.

The fact that it charged some when you revved it, even just a little bit, would lead me have a little more faith that the stator is actually producing electricity. It very well sounds like the voltage regulator portion of the regulator/rectifier is faulty and not allowing the bike to charge fully- it's regulating at too low of a voltage. 

 

So, to answer your question directly, if it were my bike, I'd first check the connections for cleanliness and then test the stator. My hunch would be the reg/rec, but I'd rule the other things out first since they cost nothing and really ought to be double checked in a situation like this. Could be something as simple as a pinched wire. 

Also, none of us were ever confident or competent the first time! Asking and digging in is how all of us learn! Testing a stator is actually very easy, though it seems daunting at first. If you have an electrical meter that reads ohms ( the Omega/ horseshoe looking icon)  we can walk you through the test. Once you see how it's done you'll wonder why it ever looked intimidating. All you need to access is the connector coming out of the stator cover. You don't have to open the engine or disassemble anything...maybe remove a body panel to gain access. 

 

 

Edited by shinyribs
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Thank you gentlemen for your responses.  The video of a rec/rectifier test that I watched on YouTube demonstrated that if the voltage went above 14.3v, which it did upon revving, your reg/rectifier needed replacing.

However I'll follow your advice.  Once I get this resolved I'll post what I find.   

Cheers. 

Edited by cruzian3
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5 hours ago, FZark07 said:

As someone has already said,  check the simple things first. You can take your battery and have it checked. Simple and cost  nothing.

Yea I know.  I replaced it anyway just because of its age.  

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