MT-07 Frame Rigidity

[clinical]

I've heard from quite a few reviewers mention that the MT-07 has significant frame flex when pushed hard.  Yamaha actually addressed with new side plates in the R7 (see Youtube link below).  That said, in the AMA twins cup MT-07s and SV650s run neck-and-neck, and I haven't heard anyone mention the SV650 having problems with frame rigidity.  Do these race bikes run stiffened frames in the twins cup?  If not, is feeling frame flex just something that reduces rider confidence or is it actually something that can significantly impact lap times?

 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by clinical

[stickshift]

The flex limits potential lap times (in the hands of experts - not me!).

The steel backbone frame is just not as rigid as a supersport’s twin spar alloy frame. But the steel frame provides plenty of feedback (‘character’), is great for the street and has 90+% of the performance of a twin spar frame on track.

The Aprilia 660’s alloy frame is probably best in class for the track in my opinion (at a cost!).

 

[phanomenal07]

 Honestly don’t think any of the journalist are good enough riders to feel it either

[mossrider]

All the platforms have strengths and weaknesses. The MA rules require the bike be run with stock, unaltered frame. Other sanctioning bodies may allow modifications. The flex in itself is not a problem for confidence, merely something to deal with. That's the beauty of racing slow bikes (street bikes) fast, finding solutions to limitations. There are plenty of 'fast' journalists, many of whom are past or present racers. Chris Ulrich of Road Racing World comes to mind. The fz07's frame is what it is and has some flex. It contributes to the feel and handling by design. When we take the platform beyond it's design parameters we find ways to overcome these problems as we encounter them. Nothing is perfect. Yamahas new side plates are nothing more than a step forward. 

My $.02

[br4nd0n]

I was curious about this because I honestly don't see how the new side plates would significantly improve the rigidity. From the pictures, it seems as though the only part they may slightly help is that now bolts to the one screw hole that was used for passenger pegs on the MT-07.

[mossrider]

5 hours ago, br4nd0n said:

I was curious about this because I honestly don't see how the new side plates would significantly improve the rigidity. From the pictures, it seems as though the only part they may slightly help is that now bolts to the one screw hole that was used for passenger pegs on the MT-07

I believe (not certain) the frame has been gussetted around the swingarm pivot in some fashion. If I get time tomorrow I'll tear into one at the Yamaha tent and see.

[br4nd0n]

I didn't know they had them on display somewhere. Thought they only had that press event thus far.

[InsaneDawe]

On 6/12/2021 at 7:18 PM, mossrider said:

I believe (not certain) the frame has been gussetted around the swingarm pivot in some fashion. If I get time tomorrow I'll tear into one at the Yamaha tent and see.

Did you have a chance to look at the R7? Frame looked identical.

On 6/12/2021 at 1:54 PM, br4nd0n said:

I was curious about this because I honestly don't see how the new side plates would significantly improve the rigidity. From the pictures, it seems as though the only part they may slightly help is that now bolts to the one screw hole that was used for passenger pegs on the MT-07.

That's what it looked like to me when I saw it in person on Sunday.

[mossrider]

2 hours ago, InsaneDawe said:

Did you have a chance to look at the R7? Frame looked identical.

I did not, we had to leave earlier than expected Sunday. (Our motorhome was dnf-ing)

[cornerslider]

9 hours ago, InsaneDawe said:

Did you have a chance to look at the R7? Frame looked identical.

That's what it looked like to me when I saw it in person on Sunday.

I checked one out at a Yamaha DEMO event last Friday.... I didn't get a chance to demo it, as the wait to get even get ONE of the two they had required several hours of waiting .  I did get a chance to look at it pretty closely though. It appears to be gusseted more around the swing-arm. It was pretty hard/impossible to see the "backbone" of the frame, or even the steering head. My understanding is they changed the rake of the front end slightly. Also, the swing-arm has two different places to mount rear stand spools. The geometry of the swing-arm looked about the the same as the MT/FZ-07 (to the naked eye).... The fit & finish was excellent- VERY well put together!!! The clip-ons were lower than I expected, and the bike felt very narrow/skinny to me (in a good way)... Very "Ducati-like", without the Italian headaches ... I think this bike will be a big hit for Yamaha. The key factor will be to get riders a demo-ride. On paper, the numbers don't look very impressive @ 72 HP. The key is going to be getting riders away from the paper/stats, and actually RIDE it to see how efficiently  the CP-2 motor is @ accessing that 72 HP - 

[mossrider]

So I checked with a member of Yamaha corporate about the new R7.

The frame is strengthened only by the new cheek pieces. They are no longer merely cosmetic, they are structural now. There is no gusseting anywhere or changes on the frame. 

Gears 1-2 in the tranny have been redone, same ratios, just machined to different tolerances to shift better. 5th gear is the same. Final drive gearing is up 1 toof on rear.

The forks are basically the previous generation FZ09 upside down boingers off the SP version.

The motor is the same. Intake, timing, fueling, maps, everything same same.

Referring to the North American model.

 

[Lone Wolf]

8 minutes ago, mossrider said:

... the new R7.

The motor is the same. Intake, timing, fueling, maps, everything same same.

Same as the Euro 5 compliant 2021 model, right?

Here's a Cycle World article: "The engine changes for 2021 are focused on what had to be done to meet Euro 5 regulations, including a new intake system with shorter intake runners, a redesigned exhaust with the catalytic converter moved forward for quicker warm-up, and a couple other minor changes for rideability and durability. The exhaust-valve seats are made of an alloy with higher cobalt content to handle the higher heat brought by the Euro 5-compliant calibration, and the dog spacing on second and third gear has been tightened by about 5 percent for less drivetrain lash. The new valve seats also allow the valve check interval to be moved out to 26,600 miles. When we dynoed the 2021 machine, we found that the power and torque were very similar to past years, with a peak of 67 hp and 42 pound-feet."

2021 Yamaha MT-07 First Ride

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Yamaha’s MT-07 has been a success with new and experienced riders. For 2021 the MT-07 gets updates to bolster its easy-to-like character.

 

[Mad]

The closer they stay to our machines the more we can “borrow” for cheap.

as I always said, the r7 slipper clutch is on my list and someone more capable than me may enjoy the frame supports and the front end.

[br4nd0n]

I highly doubt anyone is going to be borrowing any of these parts from the R7 on the "cheap" for quite a while. At the prices they will probably have to pay they can purchase or build better parts for the job.

[cornerslider]

I don't know..... If I can get the parts to add/modify my current set-up, with an OEM slipper-clutch that "works" for a track-day rider (like myself), I probably would pull-the-trigger on it -

 

[Mad]

10 hours ago, br4nd0n said:

I highly doubt anyone is going to be borrowing any of these parts from the R7 on the "cheap" for quite a while. At the prices they will probably have to pay they can purchase or build better parts for the job.

The front end may be harder to get for dirt cheap but both the side plates and the clutch may be taken from crashed bikes . 
of course we will have to wait  

The clutch in particular may be cheaper to buy “oem” than aftermarket ,even 400/500 bucks are half the price of current  options