Is flashing worth it??

[Evanlamarr88]

Recently posted flashing questions to a fz/mt-07 Facebook group, and was surprised by the amount of people that said it wasn't worth it. I'm not really bothered by temps (maybe I should be?), and the engine braking seems kinda nice to help on efficiency and brake wear. Maybe I just don't care because I don't know any different. My biggest reason to flash was for performance gains and to get my gas/air mixture more optimized, since I have an Akra Carbon Racing exhaust. But maybe the peformance gains aren't noticeable?

Thoughts? I'm open to any and all advice, and appreciate being told by someone more seasoned about any aspects of a future project I may be missing out on.

[Triple Jim]

I've had and ridden motorcycles pretty much all my life.  I got my motorcycle performance modifications out of my system with my 1972 Kawasaki H2, starting shortly after I got it in '78.  I still have it, and if I want scary acceleration I can ride that one.  I got my MT to have a nice light motorcycle with plenty of power that's good to ride in twisties.  It's all of that, and most importantly it's a fun motorcycle to ride.  It's also as fast as my H2 was when that was stock... about a 12 second quarter mile.  I doubt if I'll ever make any changes to the MT that might make it louder or lower the MPG.  It's a really amazing motorcycle as it is.

Since you already changed the exhaust system it's probably worth asking Akra if they recommend any fueling changes with that pipe.  Or maybe someone here has been through that already and can advise you.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Triple Jim

[Two-rocks]

Having just put my MT back to stock (engine wise, suspension mods are on). I would not want to own it in stock form. But that’s me. I ride somewhat aggressive, but i’m 50 - so maybe not as much as I think. 
 

I had full intake, exhaust and Power commander with the wide band o2 autotune module. It came with the intake and exhaust with a tuner that didn’t have the o2 sensor and I was not pleased with guessing at the air fuel ratio - and that’s all you are doing with any tune unless at a dyno (or using a wide band o2)  

Edited June 3, 2021 by Two-rocks

[mossrider]

Was 'worth it' to me.  Spot on fueling, faster, more responsive, quick shifter, dropped 3-4 seconds/lap. 

[Evanlamarr88]

41 minutes ago, mossrider said:

Was 'worth it' to me.  Spot on fueling, faster, more responsive, quick shifter, dropped 3-4 seconds/lap. 

That actually reminds me of another curiosity about the bike - I can shift up without pulling in the clutch on the stock bike. How would a quick shifter make that any different?

Edited June 3, 2021 by Evanlamarr88

[Triple Jim]

You know... I've been trying to figure out if the transmission gear dogs are undercut on these bikes.  Photos seem to show square cut dogs, but Yamaha says the 2021 model has different angles on the dogs to make it shift smoother, which implies the  2020 and earlier version has more undercutting than the 2021.

If we have square cut dogs, then I don't recommend clutchless shifting as a matter of habit.  You can get gears engaged but not quite fully that way, and put undue forces on snap rings.  Eventually you can wear though a snap ring and have to disassemble the transmission to fix it, while hoping nothing else got damaged.  For square cut gears I like to pull in the clutch, shift cleanly, and hold the shift lever until I let the clutch back out.  That makes the dogs engage fully.

With undercut dogs you can be sloppier with the shifts and the gears tend to pull themselves into engagement if you don't get them all the way together.  Has anyone here had one of these apart and looked at the dogs?

[mossrider]

4 minutes ago, Evanlamarr88 said:

That actually reminds me of another curiosity about the bike - I can shift up without pulling in the clutch on the stock bike. How would a quick shifter make that any different?

Typically you'd have to 'blip' the throttle to unload the transmission in order to complete your shift, especially if you're under full throttle. Remember these bikes have constant mesh transmissions which means the gear sets are always engaged. When you upshift you are simply sliding the next set of meshed gears into position on the transmission output shaft.  With a quick shifter the blip is done electronically using the ignition or fuel which enables you to make a full power upshift, no throttle blipping or clutching. This saves a full bike length on track for each upshift. Given a lap can be around twenty upshifts that's a lot of ground I gain on the guy next to me w/o one. Does it matter on the street? Not so much. 

[Devilman]

2 hours ago, mossrider said:

Typically you'd have to 'blip' the throttle to unload the transmission in order to complete your shift, especially if you're under full throttle. Remember these bikes have constant mesh transmissions which means the gear sets are always engaged. When you upshift you are simply sliding the next set of meshed gears into position on the transmission output shaft.  With a quick shifter the blip is done electronically using the ignition or fuel which enables you to make a full power upshift, no throttle blipping or clutching. This saves a full bike length on track for each upshift. Given a lap can be around twenty upshifts that's a lot of ground I gain on the guy next to me w/o one. Does it matter on the street? Not so much. 

Doesn't do much on street but adds a smile every time I use it. I didn't use a clutch either but I just added a Healtech quick shifter and it was worth it after I got it dialed it in. I still catch myself blipping it. Muscle memory. LOL

 

[rushdewalt]

I have Akra Ti exhaust and the tune made for a solid improvement on my bike. I wasn't as much looking for more power as much as I was looking to smooth out the power band and the tune did exactly what I wanted. It reduced the engine braking to what I consider to be a reasonable amount, it also smoothed out the off/on throttle transition to a more comfortable level. In my case it feels like a well carbureted bike now.  I'm not going to go over the top and say it feels like a whole new bike. It doesn't and I wouldn't want that anyway. The personality of the bike is still there just a little more refined. 

I don't have a clue why the tune works for some and not others. Maybe some exhausts work better with a tune than others or maybe there are some minor variations between the bikes. I do know early on (2015-2016) some posters complained about stalling issues with their bikes, while most never experienced this problem.  Mine had this quirk and it would happen 3-4 times a year usually while waiting for a stop light to change or when just leaving the light . Since the tune it has not reappeared.

If you are comfortable with the throttle response of your bike and don't have excessive popping from exhaust, then I wouldn't worry about it and just enjoy.

Edited June 4, 2021 by rushdewalt

[Triple Jim]

51 minutes ago, rushdewalt said:

I do know early on (2015-2016) some posters complained about stalling issues with their bikes, while most never experienced this problem.  Mine had this quirk and it would happen 3-4 times a year usually while waiting for a stop light to change or when just leaving the light . Since the tune it has not reappeared.

I read that this was due to lean fueling at idle, and that Yamaha corrected it once the problem was apparent.

[M. Hausknecht]

2020 and prior gears are not undercut from Yamaha. This has led to some issues with race bikes generating more than stock hp; the 4th to 5th upshift in particular from what I've heard. Undercutting is an effective modification but it requires complete disassembly of the motor and it isn't cheap. 

Clutchless up shifting with constant mesh gearboxes, like the 07 and every other motorcycle I've owned, is easy and doesn't beatup the dogs as long as you fully unload the gears and don't rush things. Clutchless downshifting is possible but only when revs and load on the gearbox are low, to avoid gearbox damage and upsetting the balance of the bike. I do it sometimes on the track  but can't imagine any reason to do it on the street.

The quick-shifter I use (aRacer) doesn't include a blip function for downshifts; it only works for up shifts. It functions by cutting the fuel rather than the spark, when sufficient pressure is applied to the shifter, and it functions flawlessly when adjusted for timing and pressure. I'm not aware of a quickshifter with a blip function for the 07, because it has a throttle cables rather than drive by wire. In any event, a well setup quickshifter will allow faster acceleration than clutchless upshifts, because you're not closing the throttle and then opening it again.  On a long straight with 2 or 3 shifts, it makes a noticeable difference.

 

[scat2me]

it depends on what your going to flash...

[Triple Jim]

Thanks for that information about non-undercutting of 2020 and older transmissions.  I suspected that from photos on the net.  Does this mean that starting with 2021 they are undercut?

1 hour ago, M. Hausknecht said:

Clutchless up shifting with constant mesh gearboxes, like the 07 and every other motorcycle I've owned, is easy and doesn't beatup the dogs as long as you fully unload the gears and don't rush things.

This is true if everything goes correctly, but if things aren't ideal and the dogs don't fully engage, the gears can put force on the snap rings next to them, wearing them.  I just rebuilt a transmission because of a snap ring failure that I attribute to (decades of) occasional sloppy shifting.  The snap ring just wore out, becoming paper thin and finally coming apart.