stupid frame slider question

[TMTYWSH]

In a hurry (bike is going in the shop soon for chain and tires) I bought frame sliders from ebay (I've done this before with success for my gsxr); well what I got this time the 2 piece slider(s), 2 washers/spacers for each side, and no directions.

Here is the kicker, with one washer/spacer on - the bolt is the same length as the stock engine bolt; a you can see from the pictures the slider part is plastic, and part that goes into the frame is metal...one would think that the washer goes between the bolt and the plastic slider part...okay...then the other washer/spacer is extra or for a different bike.

 

For my gsxr the install was straight forward, this is a little different; anyone have this setup ?

[DewMan]

Is this a spacer or a washer... there's a difference.

[randy2100]

You want all metal between the bolt and the frame mount.  You want the same length of threads engaged in the engine mount. Plastic will squish over time and then your engine isn't mounted securely.

[TMTYWSH]

I'll post some better pictures

[TMTYWSH]

On 4/12/2021 at 3:29 PM, TMTYWSH said:

I'll post some better pictures

Here is the an example of a similar slider I found... and here is also a picture of my slider's parts.

Anyone ever install a similar slider? If I follow the example, I have an extra washer (I contacted the seller and I get the idea he doesn't know what he is selling).

Also the washer/spacer thing does not go all the way back, it might when I crank on it to install...

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by TMTYWSH

[cornerslider]

I really don't want to be "that guy", but this is why you don't buy eBay sliders....  You really do get what you pay for in sliders. A poorly designed slider can actually do more damage in a crash, than having no slider at all. Spend a couple extra dollar$, and get something with some solid testing/engineering behind it. Anything from TST, Woodcraft, or even T-Rex is very good stuff. T-rex is like the "new-kid-in-town", but I run some of their stuff on all three of my track bikes-

[scat2me]

There are no stupid questions...just stupid answers

[TMTYWSH]

3 hours ago, cornerslider said:

I really don't want to be "that guy", but this is why you don't buy eBay sliders....  You really do get what you pay for in sliders. A poorly designed slider can actually do more damage in a crash, than having no slider at all. Spend a couple extra dollar$, and get something with some solid testing/engineering behind it. Anything from TST, Woodcraft, or even T-Rex is very good stuff. T-rex is like the "new-kid-in-town", but I run some of their stuff on all three of my track bikes-

haha, don't worry you aren't "that guy"... what I was going to do is let the shop decide. The sliders I have on my GSXR are from ebay (or probably amazon) "Shogun" or something, easy to install and work great (don't ask me how I know). Last thing I want is my engine falling out at 70 mph. These looked a little better and lower profile...but ebay strikes again.

[randy2100]

Your example of a different slider seems reasonable.  The one you have looks bad.  Plastic threads and the engine mount bolt looks to be supported by the plastic part.

[klx678]

Maybe I speak out of turn and lacking in knowledge of the part and install, but it looks like the bolt goes in against the alloy mount, which would provide a solid metal to metal joint, then the plastic slider part threads into the alloy mount...   That is what the hard parts show me.  The picture above doesn't relate to the parts.

Or did I just miss seeing something? 

Edited April 16, 2021 by klx678

[TMTYWSH]

36 minutes ago, klx678 said:

Maybe I speak out of turn and lacking in knowledge of the part and install, but it looks like the bolt goes in against the alloy mount, which would provide a solid metal to metal joint, then the plastic slider part threads into the alloy mount...   That is what the hard parts show me.  The picture above doesn't relate to the parts.

Or did I just miss seeing something? 

You got it, the problem people are addressing with my slider is the plastic sliding part - as someone else said the plastic will "compress" or so, but I'm thinking that the metal "threads" that thread into the plastic will protect the slider mount from becoming compressed and becoming loose - I'm not sure if that's enough .... So, I ordered the Shogun ones that I have on my GSXR; there aren't as pretty but I trust them.

And another problem was the 2ed washer, what to do with it? fking ebay...

Edited April 16, 2021 by TMTYWSH

[klx678]

That was not what I said.  I said the bolt does not hold the plastic because the plastic part threads in the alloy part after the alloy part is bolted into the engine.  The threads on the plastic slider clearly threads into the alloy mount, outside the head of the bolt.  It is not held on by the bolt.  Thus no compression of the plastic because the bolt is under the plastic slider, not through it.  There is nothing compressing the plastic portion of the slider.  So there is no way the bolt will loosen, being metal on metal.   There is no way possible for the plastic to come into play.   

That said, a washer may be used on both sides of the alloy piece, one in toward the frame, the other on the outside between the head of the bolt and the alloy body.

That is what I see with the parts pictured.   Bolt on alloy body, torque it to spec, then screw the plastic slider on over it.  

Like I said, that's what it looks like to me, but without having my hands on it I will not say that is absolute.   I doubt the company was foolish enough to have plastic in the middle of the engine mount bolt assembly.

Edited April 16, 2021 by klx678

[klx678]

If you look at the parts in this picture it is pretty clear that the bolt was never long enough to go through both that alloy mount and the plastic slider.  

It looks like it is about perfect length to bolt that metal mount on in place of the OEM engine bolt.  As for how the washers fit, that can be figured out if the person mounting the metal body has a bit of mechanical thought process.   They may not be needed or they may be spacers to move the metal mount out further if necessary.   

If I was there I could actually try the set up as I described it and figure it out pretty quick.

[randy2100]

19 hours ago, klx678 said:

That was not what I said.  I said the bolt does not hold the plastic because the plastic part threads in the alloy part after the alloy part is bolted into the engine.  The threads on the plastic slider clearly threads into the alloy mount, outside the head of the bolt.  It is not held on by the bolt.  Thus no compression of the plastic because the bolt is under the plastic slider, not through it.  There is nothing compressing the plastic portion of the slider.  So there is no way the bolt will loosen, being metal on metal.   There is no way possible for the plastic to come into play.   

That said, a washer may be used on both sides of the alloy piece, one in toward the frame, the other on the outside between the head of the bolt and the alloy body.

That is what I see with the parts pictured.   Bolt on alloy body, torque it to spec, then screw the plastic slider on over it.  

Like I said, that's what it looks like to me, but without having my hands on it I will not say that is absolute.   I doubt the company was foolish enough to have plastic in the middle of the engine mount bolt assembly.

Explain the purpose of the bolt sized hole in the center of the plastic part if the bolt doesn't go through it.

[klx678]

It's a hole, so what, donuts have holes in them too.  Maybe it is there to allow an allen wrench to reach in and tighten the bolt if needed.  Maybe it is just there because it is just there.   

Fact is most of the strength of a cylinder comes from the outer portions, pure statics and strengths of materials facts.  So, if you took solid stock and removed a half the volume from the center, you do not lose half the strength, more like 10%. Strength to weight ratio is better for a hollow pipe than a solid rod given the same mass.  So maybe it was done to use less material while making a bigger diameter slider with similar strength, and keeping weight down too.  Or maybe it worked better in the machining process.  Or maybe they just did it to do it instead of having a solid chunk stuck there - the hole looks right.

If you looked beyond that hole you might notice the bolt is only long enough to reach through the alloy part to the engine, not long enough to reach through the entire assembly.  Maybe, just maybe that hole is big enough for the head of the allen bolt to fit in it or big enough for the allen wrench to fit in it to check bolt tightness if needed.   Lots of possibilities, none having the bolt pinching the plastic.   

Like I said, if I had it in front of me I'd know for sure.  Actually I'm putting money on the fact that the slider looks better with that hollow center and that's why the hole.

 

Here's the link to the similar part.  That plastic screws on and is replaceable if worn or broken.  From what I see, the bolt only goes through the alloy mount.

Edited April 16, 2021 by klx678

[randy2100]

31 minutes ago, klx678 said:

It's a hole, so what, donuts have holes in them too.  Maybe it is there to allow an allen wrench to reach in and tighten the bolt if needed.  Maybe it is just there because it is just there.   

Fact is most of the strength of a cylinder comes from the outer portions, pure statics and strengths of materials facts.  So, if you took solid stock and removed a half the volume from the center, you do not lose half the strength, more like 10%. Strength to weight ratio is better for a hollow pipe than a solid rod given the same mass.  So maybe it was done to use less material while making a bigger diameter slider with similar strength, and keeping weight down too.  Or maybe it worked better in the machining process.  Or maybe they just did it to do it instead of having a solid chunk stuck there - the hole looks right.

If you looked beyond that hole you might notice the bolt is only long enough to reach through the alloy part to the engine, not long enough to reach through the entire assembly.  Maybe, just maybe that hole is big enough for the head of the allen bolt to fit in it or big enough for the allen wrench to fit in it to check bolt tightness if needed.   Lots of possibilities, none having the bolt pinching the plastic.   

Like I said, if I had it in front of me I'd know for sure.  Actually I'm putting money on the fact that the slider looks better with that hollow center and that's why the hole.

 

Here's the link to the similar part.  That plastic screws on and is replaceable if worn or broken.  From what I see, the bolt only goes through the alloy mount.

Your link shows the bolt going through the plastic part if you look at the red slider picture.

[klx678]

It's not a problem sticking a bolt through a hole in a picture.  Look at the parts and think.

At this point the only way either of us knows is if we have the parts in hand.   I made my comments on the obvious physical appearances of the parts in this thread and in the ebay listing.  In both the bolt is clearly not long enough to go through all parts and the slider plastic threads into the alloy mounts, so why would they bother adding the bolt to hold it.  Those were my conclusions without the parts in hand.  

I guess we wait and see what the OP finds out if he should try to bolt on the alloy mounts and thread in the sliders.  I'm not planning on buying a set of them.  I scored a set of Puig 7074N Crash Pad (Pro Yamaha Fz-07/ MT-07 Tracer/XSR 700) sliders for an unbelievable $23.95 on Amazon.  I figured for $23 and the ability to return, why not?  If they were the kit, cool.  If not, if just the pads I'd return them.  It was the full kit.  No idea why that cheap, package was unopened.  Once I got them I figured let's see if I can get more.  Clicked the reorder and they were $180.  Obviously I didn't buy another set.

 

And no the bolts don't go through the plastic...   

Edited April 17, 2021 by klx678