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DannySX

Front suspension options

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DannySX

Suspension upgrades

This is my first post to this forum so bear with me...

I know this has been asked and answered before. I’ve found various postings and I have found various answers and I’m left with my questions.

So, without further ado...

I have a 2019 MT07 and I’m waiting on some Pilot Road 5’s to get shipped to me. The rear tire I have on the bike has a nasty gash in it and is unrepairable. I figured I’d make good use of the downtime and start doing some suspension upgrades. 

The rear suspension is pretty self explanatory, I however have questions about the front. I don’t have money to swap out the forks for the top end items (nor a need to). I’ve read a lot of things on forums and seen the Dave Moss Tuning videos about what can be done to modify the front. There seems to be a lot of varying answers though, so I’ll list my plan and see if anyone has any suggestions or things to stick away from or to buy. 

I’m upgrading the bike with a sports oriented set up in mind. I do occasional highway commuting, but that is either short distance, or to travel to new roads to hit. My commute to work is all twisties and back roads, and my riding is typically “spirited”, along with some occasional track days. I do sometimes ride in the rain or wet, hence going with sport touring instead of hyper sport tires. 

So my current plan is to keep the stock springs. It seems that many people have gone through various testing to find that the OEM fork springs are not progressive, and are .87, which is pretty close to perfect for my weight (185 with full gear).
I will be getting RaceTech emulators
I will be swapping the fork oil to Bel-Ray 15w
 
The parts I’m stuck at are:
Buying aftermarket preload adjusters, I’ve seen some people recommending cheap-o eBay specials for this

It seems that a lot of people recommend cutting down the fork spacer 10-15mm, the amount to cut off I’m stuck at

Some people recommend lowering the fork around 8-10mm(?) at the triple clamp, but I’ve read that it could come with some high speed stability loss, which sounds a bit sketchy to me. 

Any recommendations on what to do here would be great! Things to do, things not to do, stay on the path I’m at, etc.

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Triple Jim
Posted (edited)

Welcome to the board Danny!  My 2020 MT is so new to me that I'm still evaluating things to decide if there is anything I want to change, but so far I haven't found anything glaring.  I may go with taller gearing sometime in the future.

But I'm sure you'll get actual answers to your questions shortly.

Edited by Triple Jim
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DannySX
35 minutes ago, Triple Jim said:

Welcome to the board Danny!  My 2020 MT is so new to me that I'm still evaluating things to decide if there is anything I want to change, but so far I haven't found anything glaring.  I may go with taller gearing sometime in the future.

But I'm sure you'll get actual answers to your questions shortly.

Thanks so much!

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cornerslider

Not sure what your budget is, but you should consider the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit. I did the Racetech emulator route a few years ago. They make a decent product, but don't really support it much. Racetech sells you a bunch of generic parts, and then they give you a "baseline" to start from. They give you a "one-time access code" to set it up, after that- your kind of on your own. I was reasonably happy with my Racetech set set up, but I recently upgraded the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit. I could tell right away, it was a much better set-up (in terms of quality parts)... I haven't hit the track with it yet, but I'm VERY optimistic!!! Also, You can lower the front end 10mm, without upsetting the chassis. I did mine, and I've taken corners @ 130 mph on-track, and never upset the high speed stability- EVER.... As far as Dave Moss tuning videos, take them with a grain of salt. I think he's great a marketing his services on YouTube. My suspension tuner has debunked nearly everything Dave Moss suggests about the front end on the FZ/MT-07. I'm not a fan of Dave Moss. He seems to have a cult-like following, which I don't really understand? BTW: if you do go the Racetech route, do NOT forget to order the "Emulator Adapters" for the dampener rods... I had my forks completely disassembled, before I realized I needed the adapters.... Good luck-

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""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake"

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stickshift

Are you still using the standard rear shock?

I personally wouldn't modify the front end until an aftermarket rear shock is fitted. Any decent shock improves the rear damping so much that it also improves how the front end behaves. I was very surprised. 

After the rear shock I fitted Cogent's DDC emulators, which worked well for the cost. I'm doing more track riding now so have since fitted cartridges (which were a big improvement again).

You don't need adjustable preload if you cut the spacer in the forks (or use some PVC pipe to experiment with different lengths) to hit the correct sag numbers for your weight.

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DannySX
1 hour ago, cornerslider said:

Not sure what your budget is, but you should consider the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit. I did the Racetech emulator route a few years ago. They make a decent product, but don't really support it much. Racetech sells you a bunch of generic parts, and then they give you a "baseline" to start from. They give you a "one-time access code" to set it up, after that- your kind of on your own. I was reasonably happy with my Racetech set set up, but I recently upgraded the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit. I could tell right away, it was a much better set-up (in terms of quality parts)... I haven't hit the track with it yet, but I'm VERY optimistic!!! Also, You can lower the front end 10mm, without upsetting the chassis. I did mine, and I've taken corners @ 130 mph on-track, and never upset the high speed stability- EVER.... As far as Dave Moss tuning videos, take them with a grain of salt. I think he's great a marketing his services on YouTube. My suspension tuner has debunked nearly everything Dave Moss suggests about the front end on the FZ/MT-07. I'm not a fan of Dave Moss. He seems to have a cult-like following, which I don't really understand? BTW: if you do go the Racetech route, do NOT forget to order the "Emulator Adapters" for the dampener rods... I had my forks completely disassembled, before I realized I needed the adapters.... Good luck-

Budget isn’t an issue for me- I’d rather buy the quality parts now and do it right. I’ll look more into the AR25 kit. Did you order with the race or street “type of riding”?

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DannySX
31 minutes ago, stickshift said:

Are you still using the standard rear shock?

I personally wouldn't modify the front end until an aftermarket rear shock is fitted. Any decent shock improves the rear damping so much that it also improves how the front end behaves. I was very surprised. 

After the rear shock I fitted Cogent's DDC emulators, which worked well for the cost. I'm doing more track riding now so have since fitted cartridges (which were a big improvement again).

You don't need adjustable preload if you cut the spacer in the forks (or use some PVC pipe to experiment with different lengths) to hit the correct sag numbers for your weight.

Rear shock is on the way already! I’m looking into the AR25 kit that cornerslider recommended. Cartridges would be nice, and while budget isn’t an issue, I’d prefer to save a bit of money here. Already in pretty deep with the shocks and tires!

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DannySX
4 minutes ago, DannySX said:

Budget isn’t an issue for me- I’d rather buy the quality parts now and do it right. I’ll look more into the AR25 kit. Did you order with the race or street “type of riding”?

Also, I agree with your thoughts on Dave Moss. So you did the traxxion AR25 kit, lowered the forks by 10mm and just swapped out the oil for something thicker and had good results??

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DannySX
1 hour ago, cornerslider said:

Not sure what your budget is, but you should consider the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit. I did the Racetech emulator route a few years ago. They make a decent product, but don't really support it much. Racetech sells you a bunch of generic parts, and then they give you a "baseline" to start from. They give you a "one-time access code" to set it up, after that- your kind of on your own. I was reasonably happy with my Racetech set set up, but I recently upgraded the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit. I could tell right away, it was a much better set-up (in terms of quality parts)... I haven't hit the track with it yet, but I'm VERY optimistic!!! Also, You can lower the front end 10mm, without upsetting the chassis. I did mine, and I've taken corners @ 130 mph on-track, and never upset the high speed stability- EVER.... As far as Dave Moss tuning videos, take them with a grain of salt. I think he's great a marketing his services on YouTube. My suspension tuner has debunked nearly everything Dave Moss suggests about the front end on the FZ/MT-07. I'm not a fan of Dave Moss. He seems to have a cult-like following, which I don't really understand? BTW: if you do go the Racetech route, do NOT forget to order the "Emulator Adapters" for the dampener rods... I had my forks completely disassembled, before I realized I needed the adapters.... Good luck-

Also also... it doesn’t show 2017+ as on option for MT07’s. Do you know if the AR25 would still work for a 2019 MT07? 
Thanks again suspension guru’s. 

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cornerslider

I did the K-Tech Razor “R” rear shock. Upgrading the suspension on our beloved “07’s” is the best money you can spend 😎. Traxxion Dynamics sets everything up for you. I had mine set up for track use. They do all the set-up, and send you everything you need (including proper springs, spacers, and even the proper oil). I don’t race, I’m a track day rider. I honestly wouldn’t know how to set up a cartridge fork? This kit gets you 90% of the way there. I do this $hit for fun 😎-

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""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake"

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cornerslider
3 hours ago, DannySX said:

Also also... it doesn’t show 2017+ as on option for MT07’s. Do you know if the AR25 would still work for a 2019 MT07? 
Thanks again suspension guru’s. 

I think they are all the same forks. I’m sure Traxxion Dynamics could confirm it though... Good luck 👍🏼-

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""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake"

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DannySX
6 hours ago, cornerslider said:

I think they are all the same forks. I’m sure Traxxion Dynamics could confirm it though... Good luck 👍🏼-

Roger that boss man. Thanks for all the help!

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seven

Following this thread as I think I have similar suspension goals...although  I am a little more street focused as I really don't know if I will ever get to the track. Track requirements are a full 1 or 2 piece suit and for the limited time I would ever get to the track it might be just is too much $$.

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DannySX
On 4/7/2021 at 2:56 PM, seven said:

Following this thread as I think I have similar suspension goals...although  I am a little more street focused as I really don't know if I will ever get to the track. Track requirements are a full 1 or 2 piece suit and for the limited time I would ever get to the track it might be just is too much $$.

Luckily for me my local track has $150 days for a whole day of track use... lots of fun. Just pulled the forks off last night, cutting the spacer down with the bandsaw @ my work today, tires are getting installed and everything is getting put back together tonight. 
I will leave a reply soon and tell you how everything went 

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DannySX

One more question for you suspension guru’s out there, how high did you fill the forks up? I have a cylindrical metric measurement tool, so I can precisely pour in X cc’s of fork oil. Again, I’ve read two things. I’ve read 403mL’s, or measuring from the top of the fork to roughly 6.4”, with the spring out and the fork fully compressed. Im sure both measurements are the same in the end, but I’ve heard that adding less is required with the heavier oil (Bel-Ray 15w). Is the best option to start at the 6.4”/403mL, and take out a couple mL’s at a time if I feel it needs to be softer? Or is there a level you guys have done already that seemed to work well? 
Thanks again

-Danny

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shinyribs
Posted (edited)

The idea of a fork needing less oil due to running a heavier weight oil is new to me. You should never run less oil than oem specs. It's important that we keep the internals fully submerged. 

I've played with oil levels, aka air gap, on many street and dirt bikes. The effects are minimal in my experience. I would just go with the stock oil level regardless of what oil you decide to use. 

Edited by shinyribs

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DannySX
1 hour ago, shinyribs said:

The idea of a fork needing less oil due to running a heavier weight oil is new to me. You should never run less oil than oem specs. It's important that we keep the internals fully submerged. 

I've played with oil levels, aka air gap, on many street and dirt bikes. The effects are minimal in my experience. I would just go with the stock oil level regardless of what oil you decide to use. 

Roger that, thanks for the input! 

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TMTYWSH
On 4/6/2021 at 7:48 PM, cornerslider said:

Not sure what your budget is, but you should consider the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit. I did the Racetech emulator route a few years ago. They make a decent product, but don't really support it much. Racetech sells you a bunch of generic parts, and then they give you a "baseline" to start from. They give you a "one-time access code" to set it up, after that- your kind of on your own. I was reasonably happy with my Racetech set set up, but I recently upgraded the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit. I could tell right away, it was a much better set-up (in terms of quality parts)... I haven't hit the track with it yet, but I'm VERY optimistic!!! Also, You can lower the front end 10mm, without upsetting the chassis. I did mine, and I've taken corners @ 130 mph on-track, and never upset the high speed stability- EVER.... As far as Dave Moss tuning videos, take them with a grain of salt. I think he's great a marketing his services on YouTube. My suspension tuner has debunked nearly everything Dave Moss suggests about the front end on the FZ/MT-07. I'm not a fan of Dave Moss. He seems to have a cult-like following, which I don't really understand? BTW: if you do go the Racetech route, do NOT forget to order the "Emulator Adapters" for the dampener rods... I had my forks completely disassembled, before I realized I needed the adapters.... Good luck-

Questions for a budget fork upgrade, 2015 fz07: I was thinking of changing the fluid to 15w, changing the fluid level (still trying to understand this), and adjusting the front end 8mm (or 10mm) - would any front end stability/dampening be gained ? I'm not trying to build a track bike yet, but I would like to improve the bike's handling characteristics.

 

and yes, rear shock mods would come next

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cornerslider
38 minutes ago, TMTYWSH said:

Questions for a budget fork upgrade, 2015 fz07: I was thinking of changing the fluid to 15w, changing the fluid level (still trying to understand this), and adjusting the front end 8mm (or 10mm) - would any front end stability/dampening be gained ? I'm not trying to build a track bike yet, but I would like to improve the bike's handling characteristics.

 

and yes, rear shock mods would come next

I honestly don't know what you would gain by going to 15W oil. I'm also not sure what you would gain by changing the oil level either. I'll try to break it down to what my experience has taught me..... You can do this stuff in stages, for what your budget can tolerate. "Level One": get straight rate fork springs for your body weight. "Level Two": add fork emulators, or Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit. "Level Three": add a full cartridge kit (K-Tech, Ohlins, or comparable). Unless you are racing, I'd advise you to skip the cartridge kit. 

As far as "adjusting" the front end, I'm assuming you are talking about lowering the front end (rising the fork tubes in the triple clamps).  I lowered the front end on my 2016 FZ-07 by 10mm. It seems to tip into corners better, and I haven't noticed any loss of "high-speed-stabilty" that others have spoken of. All this will do is change your steering geometry slightly. To improve the suspension action of the front end, you will need to modify the internals of the forks to one of the above mentioned routes. Suspension is the area that Yamaha cut-corners on the "07". Upgrading both front & rear suspension will yield positive results. It just comes down to what your budget can tolerate. I have the K-Tech Razor "R" on my FZ-07, and it's great on track. I have the K-Tech Razor "Lite" on my "street" R3, and it's a great value for upgrading the rear suspension, without breaking the bank. I hope that helps you out-


""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake"

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