HELP! MT07 died?? Hard start, loud noise and smoke from exhaust

[Timo023]

6 hours ago, stickshift said:

Your power commander appears to have a quick shifter fitted (2 pink wires) - have you removed it? 
Looking at the poor wiring jobs a previous owner has done, I’d be removing all non-standard electrical parts before attempting any further diagnosis.

Thanks for your response.

Nope, quickshifter is still installed. It was working prefectly before the failure. Yes.. the wiring is not very good.

[Timo023]

On 12/19/2020 at 3:58 PM, shinyribs said:

I can't think of a way to describe how to repair your electrical connector. It's simple, but would take a walk of text to describe it. Like trying to teach someone to tie shoes via text message Your best bet will probably be a YouTube video showing how to crimp those connectors together so you can see how they work and go together. There's a little barb in there, but every brand of contractor is different. Once you get it, you'll get it.

 

Good luck, man. I know you've got to be frustrated! 

Do you know the name of the connector type? Cant find a thing online. Somehow I have to pull the connector apart the get the cable in. A hint? use heat? push or pull the red thingy? Point me in te right direction and without doubt I will figure it out. Its probably easy but you just need to know the trick.

[shinyribs]

I'd have to see if I can find any identifying marks on the connectors to determine who made, it's series, etc... but they're all pretty common. I'll see if I can dig up some useful info....

 

If you dig out the silicone seal ( won't matter if you wreck it) you should be able to see the internal metal piece the wire is attached to. There will be a barb on the plastic housing that locks the pin inside the connector. Should be able to depress that barb with some sort of small pick and the pin will slide out the same end the seal is on. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by shinyribs

[shinyribs]

https://youtu.be/znP_uZCak7M

[Timo023]

Video: left hand(defective) side spark plug. Seems to be sparking fine to me? 

However this is the first time I do this so I have no clue if this looks good. What do you think? (The plugs have allready been swapped for a new set.) Hoped that I would discover a sparking problem on the left side with this test however I think it is fine which should rule out ignition problems. Together with the previous tests I performed.

[Lone Wolf]

4 minutes ago, Timo023 said:

... Seems to be sparking fine to me? 

Yeah, looks like a good spark. Is that the stock gap, or did you increase the gap to test the strength of spark? (poor man's spark tester).

Did you pull the heated grips? Quick shifter? Power Commander - get the bike back to stock?

[Timo023]

52 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Yeah, looks like a good spark. Is that the stock gap, or did you increase the gap to test the strength of spark? (poor man's spark tester).

Did you pull the heated grips? Quick shifter? Power Commander - get the bike back to stock?

Yes I increased the gap and still worked fine. I removed(read unplugged) the heated grips. Removed the power commander. didnt do the quick shifter but since the problem allready occurs on idle I didnt have a reason yet to do so. Also added some injection system cleaner to the fuel. 

Forgot to check the airbox will do this tomorrow. But seems unlikely to me that this is the problem. Whats next? Throttle bodies? 

 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

2 hours ago, Timo023 said:

... Whats next? Throttle bodies? 

No, that never happens suddenly. Others didn't think valves can happen suddenly - but I have seen other Yamahas where prior owner never checked valves and an exhaust valve burns, blows out a chunk and sudden power loss.  That would be very unlikely for you and I doubt that is the problem either. Personally I would have done a compression test when the plugs were out because I have a compression tester, but for you it is very unlikely so I wouldn't bother since you put the new plugs in and buttoned it up.

I am stumped without seeing the bike. Bitch slap the seller...

Edited December 27, 2020 by Lone Wolf

[Lone Wolf]

On 12/27/2020 at 11:11 AM, Timo023 said:

Removed the power commander. didn't do the quick shifter but since the problem already occurs on idle I didn't have a reason yet to do so.

As others have stated, I think you need to get the bike back to stock. 

You found bad wiring from prior owner. The quick shifter "may" be fine, but the wiring from it will momentarily cut power during the shift. I would just eliminate all the variables one by one until the bike runs normally, then you can add stuff back in.

[Timo023]

Just spoke to a mechanic. He suggested maybe a vacuüm leak could be the problem. Have an appointment scheduled for the 14th of januari. So... I have till then to fix the problem myself.

[ElGonzales]

The only necessary vacuum line is the grey hose from left throttle body upwards to the air intake pressure sensor (often also named as MAP sensor). Depending on the version of the bike you also have a vacuum hose connected to the right throttle body, with this it controls an additional air flap (then theres some stuff on the right side, a blue/white 3 way valve and an electromagnetic valve). Otherwise the connecting piece at the right throttle body is closed/blocked.

It shouldn't be possible to suck air out of the hoses end that is connected to a throttle body. If you remove such a vacuum hose (additional air can stream towards the throttle body) the engine runs shitty instantly.

[Lone Wolf]

57 minutes ago, Timo023 said:

Just spoke to a mechanic. He suggested maybe a vacuüm leak could be the problem.

The way you check for vacuum leak is inexpensive. Do you know what starter fluid is?

Typically you use if for an engine that has trouble starting - but in this case you will use it to check for a vacuum leak.

After you read all the warnings that you will explode and burn like a charred marshmallow, you ignore that crap and start your engine. Then you spray small short bursts of starter fluid at the areas you suspect have a leak at intake manifold or vacuum lines. If there is a leak, it will pull in some of the starter fluid and your RPM will go up.  

If nothing happens when you spray starter fluid around the intake regions, you spray a bit into the air filter area and you will hear your RPM increase - and that gives you confidence of what the stuff does and that you don't have a vacuum leak. Obviously if you discovered a leak, you fix it.

I doubt that is the problem because your bike ran fine when the scumbag sold it to you - then suddenly developed a problem which likely is not a vacuum leak - but it will save you from paying a mechanic to tell you that.

Did you pull all the wiring from the quickshifter and get the bike fully back to stock?

Edited December 29, 2020 by Lone Wolf

[Timo023]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Did you pull all the wiring from the quickshifter and get the bike fully back to stock?

Thanks guys. Now I know where to look and how to look. Will try tommorrow evening if I can get my hand on some starter fluid since all the shops are in lockdown here right now. Read that WD40 does the job as well. Only it will stall the bike? Not to happy about spraying WD40 all over the bike tho. because it can be quite aggresive on seals.

Nope. Did not have a look at it yet. The bike is stored at my workplace indoors at the moment. So I can only look after workhours. Will check tomorrow. I can just pull the electronics out? dont have to change the rod right away?

Awesome feedback on this forum BTW! Very active compared to other motorcycle forums I have been on. THANKS!

 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, Timo023 said:

Read that WD40 does the job as well. Only it will stall the bike?

Don't use WD40 to find a vacuum leak. You want to hear the motor rev up as the leaking area of the intake system pulls in starter fluid.  Likely you won't hear anything because I doubt you have a "sudden failure" due to vacuum leak. 

Personally I am not familiar with your quickshifter so I can't give advice other than to pull any wiring that may be contributing to motor cutting out (quickshifter will briefly cut power during shift).

If they seller didn't provide you with the stock shift linkage, you could leave the rod in place. Can you tell if it is a standalone quickshifter, or did it connect to the power commander? (I see they sell both). You simply want to eliminate possibilities so that the ultimate problem becomes clear.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Lone Wolf

[Timo023]

Update:

Well.... I could not find the problem myself so had to take it to an expert. 

Got a call today that the exhaust valve on my left cilinder was extremely tight and had to be adjusted or perhaps replaced. Also he said that something was bent inside the engine.... Dont know exactly what yet. But he has to lift the engine from the frame and work it open to fix it. So does not sound good at all!

Tomorrow I recieve some pictures of what he discovered so far together with the probably gigantic bill with what's needed to fix it. 

Should have bought an MV instead☹

Will let you guys know what happened as soon as I get more info myself.

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

Damn.  Well that sucks.

2 hours ago, Timo023 said:

Should have bought an MV instead☹

The problem isn't the brand. The problem is the prior owner who failed to check valve clearances on time, and decided to sell the bike and make it your problem.

Any engine that does not get valve checks done will risk tight tolerance, which can lead to burnt valve.

It is almost always the exhaust that needs adjust, then they tend to stay in range for a long time.

[Timo023]

I know its not the brand. 

I am very curious to hear the full explanation of the garage on the cause. He said he didnt think "just" a lack of valve adjustment has caused the problem. Hopefully I can afford the repair.  

Will be needing a good lawyer soon

[fivepointnine]

On 1/16/2021 at 6:11 AM, Timo023 said:

I know its not the brand. 

I am very curious to hear the full explanation of the garage on the cause. He said he didnt think "just" a lack of valve adjustment has caused the problem. Hopefully I can afford the repair.  

Will be needing a good lawyer soon

That sucks, hopefully you can get away with just redoing the valves/recutting valve seats. 

This is going to be hard to hear, but you are wasting your time with a lawyer.  Unless you bought the bike from a dealer you assume the risk when you buy used from a private party unless specifically stated in a bill of sale.  It becomes your word against his and all he has to say is the buyer had plenty of time to inspect the bike before handing over the payment, and he accepted and rode off. I have bought and sold over 65 cars and about 20 bikes and the only time I had any luck with a "lemon" was when I refused delivery of a used car from a dealer that was clearly not repaired as we agreed when I initially looked at it and made the deal...and that took small claims court to get my $750 deposit back.

Hope for the best from your mechanic, luckily motorcycle engines are very basic and nothing is prohibitively expensive on a twin.

Edited January 19, 2021 by fivepointnine

[Timo023]

Recieved the first pictures today. Don't know the english word but lets call it the "valve retainer" is what came loose on the left cilinder exhaust valve. If I'm correct. See the picture.

The valve needs adjustment and came loose but didn't break down. Not that that makes it any better tho. I am Lucky the valve didnt rocket out at some point.

Now its the case of figuring out what caused the retainer to break down. My mechanic had not seen this before. Hopefully its not something that will total the bike. 

@fivepointnine In my country we have something called "hidden defects" its the sellers obligation to tell you about any hadden defects which cant be expected to be found on sale. However you have to prove the failure was there allready at the moment of sale AND more importantly you have to prove that the owner was aware of the problem but decided to hide it. - agreed almost guaranteed a lost case at the start. But depending on the costs perhaps I will give it a try. I reckon the bill will go as high as 1000+ ATM. 

But first step is to try to get the seller get some remorse (almost guaranteed he caused the problem) and get him to pay half of the bill. 

 

[Lone Wolf]

23 minutes ago, Timo023 said:

Now its the case of figuring out what caused the retainer to break down. My mechanic had not seen this before. Hopefully its try to get the seller get some remorse (almost guaranteed he caused the problem) and get him to pay half of the bill. 

Wow. I have never heard of one of those coming out on its own - on any engine.

But hey, the part is less than $4 ...
Is the missing half broken off, or completely missing? I am curious if a piece of it is still stuck in there.

[Lone Wolf]

This is how a normal MT-07 valve retainer looks "under the bucket" (courtesy of thread by Noodles on adjusting valves)

 

[AP996]

11 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Wow. I have never heard of one of those coming out on its own - on any engine.

But hey, the part is less than $4 ...
Is the missing half broken off, or completely missing? I am curious if a piece of it is still stuck in there.

Don’t think the collets broken, looks like it’s not located properly 

[Timo023]

4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Wow. I have never heard of one of those coming out on its own - on any engine.

But hey, the part is less than $4 ...
Is the missing half broken off, or completely missing? I am curious if a piece of it is still stuck in there.

The other half is still stuck in there. a bit below. Split perfectly in half. 

[Timo023]

4 hours ago, AP996 said:

Don’t think the collets broken, looks like it’s not located properly 

Nope  It has definately broken in half. Almost a perfect split.

[Lone Wolf]

28 minutes ago, Timo023 said:

... It has definitely broken in half. Almost a perfect split.

Well it seems the small broken piece would have been trapped below the bucket. Is that what the mechanic saw when he lifted the bucket out - a shim + piece of the retainer (Cotter)? At least you didn't have debris floating through the rest of the engine.