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Should leave it alone, but


AP996

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13 hours ago, T1oas said:

Opened up my throttle bodies last night at work, machined them with the butterfly’s still in place, cut some round bits of rubber to protect them and masked everything up, just removed the injectors and a float sensor in the middle, I also back turned them so the swarf was coming out rather than been pushed again them, blew them out and washed them down with intake cleaner, pleased with the results, think I might build it back up, get it mapped and see how I get on then try find a spare engine to mess about with! 

Looks like you saved a load of work stripping and rebuilding the throttle bodies, hope you didn’t miss any swarf, not sure how much difference they will make without matching the head to them but look forward to seeing how to goes when you run it on the dyno 

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9 minutes ago, AP996 said:

Looks like you saved a load of work stripping and rebuilding the throttle bodies, hope you didn’t miss any swarf, not sure how much difference they will make without matching the head to them but look forward to seeing how to goes when you run it on the dyno 

Yes so do I!! Should be ok I spent a long time bunging things up and masking, also stripped the little adjusters to sync the bodies and then was really careful blowing them out, I wouldn’t of wanted anyone other than myself to do them built up as I would of been worried about swarf 👍

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Last thing as I know I’ve hijacked this thread, I’d seen a guy had put a thread up on a tenere page, he had a full exhaust and a uni air filter but standard air box and snorkel, he had it on the dyno and it did 64. Something hp, they then borrowed a set of opened up tb’s of a lad that races on a modded mt07 at the TT in the super twin class and spent some time on the dyno mapping it and got 70 hp at the back wheel which is a good gain with a knobby back tyre! Obviously all dynos are different but my mt mapped with open lid, dna filter and akra only did 70 with a road tyre! Hordpower said when I ordered the filter it’s worth 1-2 hp on a stock engine which doesn’t sound much but when you only have 70 to start with every little counts 👍

Edited by T1oas
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14 hours ago, T1oas said:

Hordpower said when I ordered the filter it’s worth 1-2 hp on a stock engine which doesn’t sound much but when you only have 70 to start with every little counts 👍

If he’s right the 1-2hp plus the 5-6hp you should see from his air box will give you a very noticeable 6-8hp in total, approx 10% power increase without too much effort.

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  • 1 month later...

First graph is the original run euro 5 bike with open Akra and dna filter and lid, after the map it made 70hp

second graph is 68hp with open Akra, machined tb’s and Hordpower, ended up with 72.5! To be fair he said I’ve got quite sticky tyres and it would have been near to 75 with a harder tyre! It’s down on torque now though! Should of left it alone 🤣

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2 hours ago, T1oas said:

First graph is the original run euro 5 bike with open Akra and dna filter and lid, after the map it made 70hp

second graph is 68hp with open Akra, machined tb’s and Hordpower, ended up with 72.5! To be fair he said I’ve got quite sticky tyres and it would have been near to 75 with a harder tyre! It’s down on torque now though! Should of left it alone 🤣

I understand your disappointment, my bike picked up 6hp with a similar intake and @Aleksandar13 also when he made one like mine, he had 76hp on his tenere. I would have expected yours to have around 75hp also but so many things can effect the dyno reading, tyre (as you said), how the bike is pulled down on the roller, atmospherics etc etc, that on another day it could well make that sort of number.

More importantly, if you’ve had chance to use it despite the freezing weather conditions, can you notice any difference, mine felt much stronger once the induction had been modified.

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No I’ve not had chance yet the weather has been crap in West Yorkshire! To be fair the lad who mapped it thinks I will be able to tell, he also thinks the intake side of thing is really good so now it needs cams and porting to make the most of things. They have mapped loads of them now and mine is the most powerful one they have done apart from a turbo 07 that made 108bhp! 

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On 11/30/2022 at 11:23 AM, M. Hausknecht said:

The U.S. flat track guys running the CP2 are using 83mm pistons (742.3 cc) and for those the 40 mm throttle-body bore makes sense. I'd avoid going that big on stock displacement unless I was willing to rev to 12k rpm, and have little power below 7000 rpm.  Of course, then we're talking about new cams, HD valve springs, and stout connecting rods. And frequent rebuilds.... Sounds like you've got a good, modest plan.

If it means anything, a while back I had spoken with Eddie Krawiec of Vance & Hines about some head work (hes a major component of V&H's flat track support for the Yamaha guys) and he said they actually made less hp using bored TB's compared to oem TB's on the flat track bikes. He didn't elaborate much further but I thought that was interesting because I'm of the same mindset you have the larger TB's. Sorry for hijacking the thread!

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M. Hausknecht
12 hours ago, FrodoFZ said:

If it means anything, a while back I had spoken with Eddie Krawiec of Vance & Hines about some head work (hes a major component of V&H's flat track support for the Yamaha guys) and he said they actually made less hp using bored TB's compared to oem TB's on the flat track bikes. He didn't elaborate much further but I thought that was interesting because I'm of the same mindset you have the larger TB's. Sorry for hijacking the thread!

@FrodoFZ that is really interesting (to me, anyways). I wonder what their useful power band is and whether they've also reduced intake port volume. I've heard anecdotally that the intake ports are a bit too large in the valve bowl area and that flow can be improved by adding some epoxy to reduce volume. All about keeping velocity up in the intake tract. That would help explain why bigger throttle bodies wouldn't work for them.

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Thought I might try some shorter and straight inlets so I’ve had some 3D printed velocity stacks made, 42mm bore to match up with the chamfer at the back of the throttle bodies, my foam air filter still fits but does foul the left hand frame rail a bit.

Don’t know if it’ll be better or worse than the previous setup but it’s only cost about £40 in parts and if doesn’t prove any better only takes 10 minutes to put it back to how it was.

71E303B7-7D96-412D-959D-88B19590138A.jpeg

F9818126-A3CE-4F17-AFC8-E00593568EA5.jpeg

EDE032E6-C644-4680-9500-2CB77B7D6A35.jpeg

B6AD8B49-2392-49B1-8621-43958455F50B.jpeg

Edited by AP996
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M. Hausknecht

Wow, @AP996those make the intake tract much shorter than even the Hordpower intake. I'll be curious to hear how they change the power characteristics of your motor. They should move the power band up a  bit in the rev range. Are you planning to tinker with the mixture a bit to match?

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4 hours ago, M. Hausknecht said:

Wow, @AP996those make the intake tract much shorter than even the Hordpower intake. I'll be curious to hear how they change the power characteristics of your motor. They should move the power band up a  bit in the rev range. Are you planning to tinker with the mixture a bit to match?

I think it’s likely that I’ll lose more low down than I gain at the top, however I have wondered if a motor with cams might benefit from shorter inlet tracts so the only way to know is to try it. There wasn’t any science behind the length I chose, just what I figured I might be able to get some silicone hose joiners and worm drive clips on and still have room for the air filter to locate over the bell mouths.

I’ll definitely be checking the fuelling, I’m having 18mm bosses welded into the header pipes this week so that I can map each cylinder accurately and hopefully see if the stock offset in the mapping is still required when the air box has been removed.

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M. Hausknecht
2 hours ago, AP996 said:

I think it’s likely that I’ll lose more low down than I gain at the top, however I have wondered if a motor with cams might benefit from shorter inlet tracts so the only way to know is to try it. There wasn’t any science behind the length I chose, just what I figured I might be able to get some silicone hose joiners and worm drive clips on and still have room for the air filter to locate over the bell mouths.

I’ll definitely be checking the fuelling, I’m having 18mm bosses welded into the header pipes this week so that I can map each cylinder accurately and hopefully see if the stock offset in the mapping is still required when the air box has been removed.

There is math I haven't done, involving measuring from the intake valve seat to the end of the bellmouth, that should indicate where in the rev range the wave effect boost should occur. I'm guessing (truly) that you're too short for a motor that doesn't rev to 12k or so , but you'll see.

The individual O2 bungs are a very good idea I haven't implemented. I went to colder plugs, so they'd actually show some color if too rich, and then eliminated the disparity between cylinders. Both plugs now read the same, near as I can tell. The disparity was pretty big and I haven't heard or otherwise figured out why that would be. I'll be curious to read what you learn.

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On 1/30/2023 at 10:28 PM, M. Hausknecht said:

There is math I haven't done, involving measuring from the intake valve seat to the end of the bellmouth, that should indicate where in the rev range the wave effect boost should occur. I'm guessing (truly) that you're too short for a motor that doesn't rev to 12k or so , but you'll see.

The individual O2 bungs are a very good idea I haven't implemented. I went to colder plugs, so they'd actually show some color if too rich, and then eliminated the disparity between cylinders. Both plugs now read the same, near as I can tell. The disparity was pretty big and I haven't heard or otherwise figured out why that would be. I'll be curious to read what you learn.

Iam using just pod air filters in tbs, and indeed the bike feels faster, what do you think from what ive read from your post just pod filters on tb should not work well since the intake tract would be so small that the advantage of it i would never use because the bike never revs so high. But indeed it feels fast than when i used the dna air filter. Although it can be just a placebo effect lol. Anyway what would you think it woukd be the right size of the intake duct for a stock mt07 engine. With just full akrapovic ti euro 3 and power commander V tuned

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M. Hausknecht
14 hours ago, Joaoduarte said:

Iam using just pod air filters in tbs, and indeed the bike feels faster, what do you think from what ive read from your post just pod filters on tb should not work well since the intake tract would be so small that the advantage of it i would never use because the bike never revs so high. But indeed it feels fast than when i used the dna air filter. Although it can be just a placebo effect lol. Anyway what would you think it woukd be the right size of the intake duct for a stock mt07 engine. With just full akrapovic ti euro 3 and power commander V tuned

I can't answer your specific question because I don't have a stock engine and, as I indicated, I haven't done the calculations. One of many inlet runner calculators available on the net: https://www.exx.se/techinfo/runners/runners.html.

The stock setup features a very long intake tract, which is one reason the bike has such strong low and mid-range power. The trade-off is that it falls on its face after 8600rpm. The Hordpower and Carbonsmith intake options are appreciably shorter. I have the Hordpower on my bike (shortened further by about 3/8") and peak power is around 10,000rpm (with after-market camshafts). It has less power below 5000 rpm but, as a race bike, I don't mind. I think my bellmouths are about 4 1/2" from where the intake connects to the throttle bodies.  @AP996 is going to try much shorter intake tracts (by inches, it appears). I'm curious to learn from his experience.

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I can’t find any dimensions for the Carbonsmith velocity stacks, but judging by this picture of one, I would think they’re probably not that much different in size to the ones I’ve had made. When I get to try them and have adjusted the fuelling to suit, the worst case scenario is we know what not to do.

117CDFC2-FC00-4E8C-A8E7-76F651706F8D.thumb.jpeg.1424ee7c38f5048ac202293f03858cb1.jpeg

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M. Hausknecht

Carbonsmith offers two lengths:

rs=w:600,h:600

We have developed a high flow velocity stack kit for the Yamaha MT07/FZ07/R7. This combination will increase peak HP and TQ...

But they don't reveal the exact dimensions. From a couple photos, I'm guessing the longer ones are in the photo here and the shorter ones are in your photo.

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22 minutes ago, M. Hausknecht said:

Carbonsmith offers two lengths:

rs=w:600,h:600

We have developed a high flow velocity stack kit for the Yamaha MT07/FZ07/R7. This combination will increase peak HP and TQ...

But they don't reveal the exact dimensions. From a couple photos, I'm guessing the longer ones are in the photo here and the shorter ones are in your photo.

Looking at the pictures and using the diameter to get a rough scale, I would guess that the shorter ones are probably about 40mm long and the longer ones about an inch longer, both much shorter than the Hordpower ones. I wonder if they are 40mm bore the same as the stock inlet tubes or 42mm to match the entrance to the throttle bodies.

For what it’s worth the ones I’ve had made are 40mm long and 42mm bore.

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On 1/29/2023 at 11:21 PM, AP996 said:

Thought I might try some shorter and straight inlets so I’ve had some 3D printed velocity stacks made, 42mm bore to match up with the chamfer at the back of the throttle bodies, my foam air filter still fits but does foul the left hand frame rail a bit.

Don’t know if it’ll be better or worse than the previous setup but it’s only cost about £40 in parts and if doesn’t prove any better only takes 10 minutes to put it back to how it was.

71E303B7-7D96-412D-959D-88B19590138A.jpeg

F9818126-A3CE-4F17-AFC8-E00593568EA5.jpeg

EDE032E6-C644-4680-9500-2CB77B7D6A35.jpeg

B6AD8B49-2392-49B1-8621-43958455F50B.jpeg

What is the lenght of that 3d print stacks that you made? 

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On 1/29/2023 at 11:21 PM, AP996 said:

Thought I might try some shorter and straight inlets so I’ve had some 3D printed velocity stacks made, 42mm bore to match up with the chamfer at the back of the throttle bodies, my foam air filter still fits but does foul the left hand frame rail a bit.

Don’t know if it’ll be better or worse than the previous setup but it’s only cost about £40 in parts and if doesn’t prove any better only takes 10 minutes to put it back to how it was.

71E303B7-7D96-412D-959D-88B19590138A.jpeg

F9818126-A3CE-4F17-AFC8-E00593568EA5.jpeg

EDE032E6-C644-4680-9500-2CB77B7D6A35.jpeg

B6AD8B49-2392-49B1-8621-43958455F50B.jpeg

@AP996 What is the reference of that Ram air filter? Can you tell me plZ

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8 hours ago, Joaoduarte said:

What is the reference of that Ram air filter? Can you tell me plZ

The filter part no. MS-010, you get 2 for £34

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2 hours ago, AP996 said:

The filter part no. MS-010, you get 2 for £34

Also can you tell me the lenght of your new velocity stacks? And the older ones that you used lenght? 

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