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Akra ti (baffle in) - fuel map?


mdeg

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Hello,

I have a 2017 FZ07 and recently purchased an akra ti and FTECU kit. I am keeping the baffle in and am not making any modifications to the air box.

I was wondering what fuel map I should be using for this setup. I realize this setup does not technically require a tune, but I thought it would be nice to do to improve the throttle jerkiness.

I know that the Dynojet website has a tune for “akra exhaust stock air filter”, but I wasn’t sure if this is for the carbon exhaust and if it was with baffle in or out. Should I be using this tune or use the “stock exhaust stock air filter tune” on the website?

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For that setup I'd recommend this one:

22-065-006 Akrapovic exhaust Stock air filter.

Baffle in/out doesnt matter for a generic tune for the Akra.

Pulling the snorkle will help match the intake airflow with the exhaust. For that I'd try this map (below.)  It seems the best combo's are when the airflow in/out is matched. You can always put it back in and put the other tune back on.

22-065-007 Akrapovic exhaust Stock air filter Snorkel removed from airbox

To get rid of the jerkiness set "Disable INJ Decel Cut" to true to get rid of heavy engine braking. This makes a big difference. If you end up running an active tune w/ wideband O2 sensor it will hurt gas mileage significantly.

Edited by RobZilla
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I use 22-065-007 with Akra ti, no snorkel on my Power Commander. It runs really well.

The PCV files have separate maps for fuel & ignition, make sure you use both in the FTECU.

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I just use the import tool with the PCV file (below).

Is there another way to do it?

 

1697023635_FTECU2020-04-11212117.png.12048420da5f2ed9a253a28cad5d8412.png 

Edited by RobZilla
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Iam doing a map with autotune for a setup With Arapovic ti With baffle Kn air filter and dia nas filter lid. I Live in Portugal so Low humidity and warm weather and to my surprise those maps where too rich because they are done without dbkiller. So the autotune removed a lot of fuel to target 13.2 and 13.1 afr i can post my maps ir you want. Iam using 95 octane fuel (remind iam in portugal europe)

Edited by Joaoduarte
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I really appreciate all the help!

I was considering removing the snorkel, but I get caught in the rain a fair amount, so I thought there might be some issues with water getting in.

I will give the 22-065-006 tune a try first and maybe move to the 007 when the weather gets a bit better.

I am not too sure how applicable a map with a more modified air filter and Portugal climate would be for me (located in Ontario, Canada). I also use 91 octane here. I appreciate the offer though.

Thanks again

Edited by mdeg
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On 4/11/2020 at 11:55 AM, RobZilla said:

To get rid of the jerkiness set "Disable INJ Decel Cut" to true to get rid of heavy engine braking. This makes a big difference. If you end up running an active tune w/ wideband O2 sensor it will hurt gas mileage significantly.

I don't know how the FTECU setup handles the decel cut but from my experience with tuning,  jerkiness when getting back into the throttle doesn't come from how much fuel is being injected into the engine when at 0% throttle. It's the transition of the fuel map from 0% throttle back into the 2% and 5% throttle range is where the jerkiness happens. I richened my map in PCV in the 2% and 5% range slightly more than what it was and all jerkiness went away. If anything, the more fuel I had in the 0% range (to reduce decel popping and engine braking) only made the jerk worse until I brought the 2% and 5% throttle range up richer. Also with the active tune giving worse fuel mileage it may just be the way it's setup. I run autotune which is similar and I've not noticed a significant decrease in fuel mileage, although it's not as good as stock (hence being tuned for performance) it's still by no means terrible. It's all in how it's setup, if you have absurdly rich AFR tables then yes you'll get terrible mileage. I had bad mileage at first running autotune but it got better each ride to where now it's not much worse than stock if I baby it.

On a side note I watched a vid a while back on youtube where Brock's Performance tested Dynojet's maps imported on an FTECU setup (not on a FZ07 but still gives a similar idea) and the dyno numbers and AFR values were terrible and he said it would be better to leave it stock.

Edited by CarGuy7a
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You’re right, this isnt the only way to smooth out the throttle but it’s the easiest with the FTECU software. This just adds fuel when letting off the throttle so that the engine braking isn’t so severe. If running auto tune at the same time it fights the changes. 
 

If they hadn’t bought the setup already I’d recommend sending it out to a vendor for a flash instead of doing themself with the base maps. 

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Targeting afr in the 13 range during cruising will tank your mpg for no reason. Ideally you would want to data log where your cruising points are and adjust the comanded afr accordingly.  i.e. 14.7 in cruising areas.

Do you know if FTecu can auto tune map and tps, or does only adjust tps maps? 

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It can run autotune if you have the autotune option which is $300+ for a wideband o2 sensor. Not sure if it does the map and tps. 
I’m new to tuning, would appreciate any input anyone has with more experience using FTECU. 
 

Edited by RobZilla
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topazsparrow
3 hours ago, RobZilla said:

It can run autotune if you have the autotune option which is $300+ for a wideband o2 sensor. Not sure if it does the map and tps. 
I’m new to tuning, would appreciate any input anyone has with more experience using FTECU. 
 

I'm almost certain it only does the Fuel map tuning.

As always, it's worth mentioning here that the unrestricted map they tell people to use in all the instructions and online videos is for TUNERS only. It's a wide open base tune to get you started on dyno tuning.

For regular joes, stick with the stock ignition map and TPS maps. The unrestricted map was crazy aggressive on timing in weird places and the TPS map looked like someone got halfway through and gave up, then just copy pasted the rest of the table.

Edited by topazsparrow
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1 hour ago, topazsparrow said:

I'm almost certain it only does the Fuel map tuning.

As always, it's worth mentioning here that the unrestricted map they tell people to use in all the instructions and online videos is for TUNERS only. It's a wide open base tune to get you started on dyno tuning.

For regular joes, stick with the stock ignition map and TPS maps. The unrestricted map was crazy aggressive on timing in weird places and the TPS map looked like someone got halfway through and gave up, then just copy pasted the rest of the table.

Yep and with the stock timing you can run 87. Start with all stock maps and go from there is my advice.

If autotune only did the map v rpm map then it wouldn't be tuning anything at wide open and vice versa with only tuning tps, which is why I ask. I would hope it can do both.

 

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topazsparrow
11 minutes ago, geophb said:

Yep and with the stock timing you can run 87. Start with all stock maps and go from there is my advice.

If autotune only did the map v rpm map then it wouldn't be tuning anything at wide open and vice versa with only tuning tps, which is why I ask. I would hope it can do both.

 

I may have been wrong about that statement in retrospect. Looking at this video:

 


looks like TPS and MAP adjustments in there.

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3 minutes ago, topazsparrow said:

I may have been wrong about that statement in retrospect. Looking at this video:


looks like TPS and MAP adjustments in there.

Thanks. Exactly what I need to see. It does both, as it should.

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12 hours ago, CarGuy7a said:

I don't know how the FTECU setup handles the decel cut but from my experience with tuning,  jerkiness when getting back into the throttle doesn't come from how much fuel is being injected into the engine when at 0% throttle. It's the transition of the fuel map from 0% throttle back into the 2% and 5% throttle range is where the jerkiness happens. I richened my map in PCV in the 2% and 5% range slightly more than what it was and all jerkiness went away. If anything, the more fuel I had in the 0% range (to reduce decel popping and engine braking) only made the jerk worse until I brought the 2% and 5% throttle range up richer. Also with the active tune giving worse fuel mileage it may just be the way it's setup. I run autotune which is similar and I've not noticed a significant decrease in fuel mileage, although it's not as good as stock (hence being tuned for performance) it's still by no means terrible. It's all in how it's setup, if you have absurdly rich AFR tables then yes you'll get terrible mileage. I had bad mileage at first running autotune but it got better each ride to where now it's not much worse than stock if I baby it.

On a side note I watched a vid a while back on youtube where Brock's Performance tested Dynojet's maps imported on an FTECU setup (not on a FZ07 but still gives a similar idea) and the dyno numbers and AFR values were terrible and he said it would be better to leave it stock.

Hey, Carguy7a i think that is a really important question you are talking about, today i was riding mine and think on the same about the transition from 0% throtle to 2% or 5% can you show how is your fuel table in pcv for 0% 2% and 5% and how much did you add or removed of fuel to finish what that jerkiness. 

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3 hours ago, topazsparrow said:

As always, it's worth mentioning here that the unrestricted map they tell people to use in all the instructions and online videos is for TUNERS only. It's a wide open base tune to get you started on dyno tuning.

For regular joes, stick with the stock ignition map and TPS maps. The unrestricted map was crazy aggressive on timing in weird places and the TPS map looked like someone got halfway through and gave up, then just copy pasted the rest of the table.

I say anyone can do it, regardless of what any vendors on here might try to teach you.  There’s no black magic to this.  This is for regular joes and you might want to start dialing it in on a dyno for more specialized purposes.

Your engine isn’t going to explode if you put the unrestricted map in and run it with your baffle.  If the baffle cuts too much air you’ll realize that it’s running to rich and you can adjust...If you have the ActivTune it should compensate for any restricted airflow.

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topazsparrow
25 minutes ago, HulkHogan said:

I say anyone can do it, regardless of what any vendors on here might try to teach you.  There’s no black magic to this.  This is for regular joes and you might want to start dialing it in on a dyno for more specialized purposes.

Your engine isn’t going to explode if you put the unrestricted map in and run it with your baffle.  If the baffle cuts too much air you’ll realize that it’s running to rich and you can adjust...If you have the ActivTune it should compensate for any restricted airflow.

I certainly wouldn't put money on that garauntee.

There's a couple threads on here that got me going down that rabbit hole. Most people might not run into issues, but why put extra wear on the engine when you actually lose throttle response with the unrestricted tune:

If you look at the maps, they also use identical values for both cylinders. The OEM maps don't and there's a reason for that.

Edited by topazsparrow
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topazsparrow
16 minutes ago, HulkHogan said:

I’m guessing that you’re on the 2WDW Kool-Aid.

Not a customer, Don't derail the thread.

I'm using FTECU with active tune, it works well for me, and even better after setting the ignition timing maps back to reasonable values.

Edited by topazsparrow
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35 minutes ago, HulkHogan said:

I say anyone can do it, regardless of what any vendors on here might try to teach you.  There’s no black magic to this.  This is for regular joes and you might want to start dialing it in on a dyno for more specialized purposes.

Your engine isn’t going to explode if you put the unrestricted map in and run it with your baffle.  If the baffle cuts too much air you’ll realize that it’s running to rich and you can adjust...If you have the ActivTune it should compensate for any restricted airflow.

I will agree tuning is not black magic. And the fz07 ecu is unbelievably basic compared to car ecus especially the newer mopars which have a annular neural network built into the ecu. 

I still would NOT run the timing associated with the unrestricted map. In areas where stock timing in about 0-5 deg the unrestricted map has 15 deg, this is in a critical area (moderate load + low rpm). It will spark knock and ping. Granted, Yamaha did this to accommodate the 86 octane callout in the manual and many use premium when running this map. But remember, there is not a knock sensor to fall back on or save your motor.  And if knock was a scale of 1-10, then about 7 is when it is actually audible over engine noise.

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So you’re using a base “restricted” map with autotune? Any PCV import?
I just swapped from the unrestricted to restricted with pcv map for full Akra and dna filter/lid and there was quite a difference in throttle response.... and mpgs went up. I’m sticking with the restricted version. I also have auto tune running.

Edited by RobZilla
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Yeah there's no way I would even attempt to mess with a timing map without the bike being on a dyno. Most dyno tuners will work on AFR's and fuel trims first for power gains and then after getting a handle on that they'll adjust timing for more gains while monitoring for pre detonation and spark knock something that definitely can't be done "just on the fly".

Edited by CarGuy7a
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13 hours ago, RobZilla said:

So you’re using a base “restricted” map with autotune? Any PCV import?
I just swapped from the unrestricted to restricted with pcv map for full Akra and dna filter/lid and there was quite a difference in throttle response.... and mpgs went up. I’m sticking with the restricted version. I also have auto tune running.

I would start with the stock file and put autotune on it. I wouldn't even bother with the pcv maps either because you have autotune.  Just gotta make sure the afr map is dialed.

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