Dave Moss Tuning videos

[Kyuzo]

OMG, sometimes you guys overplay the simplicity of this bike. 

next, how to cook a perfect steak! 

[RobZilla]

It’s a passion brother! Riding and maintaining ones ride is definitely a passion, more than a hobby. It makes sense for people to get super into every aspect of it. That’s why we are all here.

[klx678]

2 hours ago, Kyuzo said:

OMG, sometimes you guys overplay the simplicity of this bike. 

next, how to cook a perfect steak! 

Never been able to nail that one.  On occasion I get one when out to eat.   I like one kind of a medium Pittsburgh style.  The last one I got that was right and good the waitress had no idea what I was talking about, but told the chef...   seems the chef was from Pennsylvania - PERFECT!

[Xrtaco]

On 4/12/2020 at 10:47 AM, shinyribs said:

THIS^^^

Dave says so many things to contradict himself that I can't figure out why his comments are regarded as gospel. 

 

 

The forks are basic, but they are fine. There is NO dangerous damping activity at all. I have tried running different grades of fork oil from 5w to 15w and everything in between. All the thicker oil gives you is harshness on compression. The damping circuit in the forks is so crude ( but perfectly reliable ) that's there's nothing you can do to really tune anything. 

-Heavy oil will give harsh feel and slighty slower rebound

-Thin oil will feel comfy, but allow fast rebound.

If you want any decent action out of the forks then something along the lines of Racetechs emulators is the ONLY way get any type of results. And if you aren't measuring and fully understanding sag measurements, then chopping up stuff in the forks won't give you good results. Do some research on static vs race sag ( aka: unladed vs laden sag ) and wrap your head around why there are two different reference points, and how people use them to determine what spring rate is needed. After that makes sense, go measure the sag numbers on the stock forks. You will quickly see that the stock fork setup doesn't align well with conventional thinking. I have a theory on this, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that it works.  

In stock trim you can feel the bike rock forward under braking. It's easily misunderstood to be fork dive. It's not. The rebound damping in the rear shock is way too weak. What feels like fork dive is just the bike pitching forward due to the suspension unloading in the rear, causing the whole bike to tip forward. Nothing you do to forks can combat this. 

When the bike tips forward under hard braking is temporarily changes the steering geometry your body naturally adjusted to moments prior. So when you quickly approach a corner, jump on the brakes and the bike tips on it's nose you suddenly feel this change in geometry and your brain thinks the forks are wallowing or flexing, or some weird thing is happening. There is something weird happening, but it's not the forks. These forks are fairly stout and the stanchions have very little unneeded stickout. We aren't flexing these things. The forks aren't wallowing through their rebound/compression strokes or overworking the springs. It's just the bike tipping forward and instantly creating a new and unplanted feel. It feels nasty because it is, but it's all in the rear shock damping. 

Get a decent shock on the back and 90% of the stock fork issues are fixed. 

 A year ago the internet was making it's typical, predictable remarks about fork springs. "Too soft! Sprung for 140lb Japanese teenagers". Everyone was running out buying fork caps with preload spacers and heavier springs. Now, Dave Moss did a video and everyone wants to now do the opposite. 

What exactly are YOU feeling on YOUR bike that YOU don't like? Forget about popular opinion. 

The only modification I have made to my forks is the location of the stock washer. In stock trim there is a steel washer between the fork spring and the spacer, then the soft aluminum fork cap rides directly on the thin, steel spacer. The thin steel spacer tube chews on the fork cap and send aluminum shavings through the forks, which will absolutely wreck the bushings in short order.  Run the washer between the spacer and the fork cap to protect the cap from gouging. You don't need a washer between the steel spacer and the steel springs. They don't gall each other and the fit is good enough the the spacer is not gonna slip off the spring. I saw this at 600 miles and the inside of my forks were FILTHY! Completely disassembled the fork for cleaning and found slivers of aluminum EVERYWHERE. Already had some slight scratches on the bushings, luckily it was caught early. 20k miles later, with the fork caps not being chewed up, and my bushing are still perfectly serviceable and my fork oil isn't black from aluminum oxides when I change it annually. It comes out the same color as it went in.

 

 

You are correct. After spending 30 bucks on cbr rear shocks the front has really behaved itself. It's only during hard cornering with a little trail braking or engine brake that you can tell the front needs a little bit less pogo. I have a set of Chinese preloads up front but that didn't change the fact that the front is way too high up even with the correct sag. It's seems like it's built to lift the front every time you send it. 

I'll be doing the fork oil and spacer change this summer and it's about time to service them on my bike. I've only heard good things about the DIY. 

 

I like to tell most people that this bike is not made for street Rossi's. It's made for hooligans that like to take the small roads home. 

[RobZilla]

A CBR rear shock fits? Is that with modification? Do you mind elaborating on that a bit or did I miss a thread on it somewhere. Thanks

[Xrtaco]

It's a ghetto diy. 07-09 cbr600rr I think. You gotta take the intake off and go pods or filters. It's in the threads here somewhere. 

[Amckay83]

I just purchased a 2015 and after reading the threads and watching Dave’s videos I’m very confused. I am small, 5’6” , 31 inch inseam, and 120 lb without gear. Is the suspension going to be too stiff for me? I haven’t picked the bike up and I suppose I should put some miles on it before I even think about modifying, but I’m just trying to prepare a budget for what will need to be done in the next month or so. 

[shinyribs]

A good friend of mine sent me a link to this video today because I've got a FZ 07. " Omg , your bike is dangerous! You need to watch this!" 

Congrats, Dave. Your clickbait scare tactics are top notch.

 

 

[cornerslider]

On 5/2/2021 at 10:57 AM, shinyribs said:

A good friend of mine sent me a link to this video today because I've got a FZ 07. " Omg , your bike is dangerous! You need to watch this!" 

Congrats, Dave. Your clickbait scare tactics are top notch.

 

 

I have no idea why Dave Moss has the "following" that he does???  I guess scare tactics work for "marketing" -

[D.A.]

On 4/22/2020 at 2:52 PM, Amckay83 said:

I just purchased a 2015 and after reading the threads and watching Dave’s videos I’m very confused. I am small, 5’6” , 31 inch inseam, and 120 lb without gear. Is the suspension going to be too stiff for me? ...

That’s a very interesting question considering that 99% of the people who don’t like the FZ’s suspension say it’s because it’s too soft and springy. 

Now that you’ve had the bike for a year, do you think the suspension feels too stiff?

Edited May 4, 2021 by D.A.

[shinyribs]

1 hour ago, cornerslider said:

I have no idea why Dave Moss has the "following" that he does???  I guess scare tactics work for "marketing" -

Followers are sometimes pretty unsettling to me. Saw one of Dave's videos where he poured the oil out of a fork and filled it back up. Someone in the comment section was so impressed he told Dave that he was "a god among men". Cringe.  

[Oneway_MT]

On 4/6/2020 at 1:10 PM, ogri said:

I watched some videos on youtube by Dave Moss Tunning and seriously considering to check and address my suspension setup.

Yamaha FZ-07 / MT-07 Fatal Flaw and How To Fix It

How To Fix Yamaha FZ-07 / MT-07 Fork Problem

I bought my FZ brand new, bike was NOT adjusted by yamaha dealership for me (welcome to Florida). I do not know even what bike's suspension needs to be adjusted prior riding. It has about 30,000 mostly commuting miles now. At 22,000 miles left fork started to leak. Mechanic replaced seals in the both forks and put heavier fork oil.
I tried test suspension like Dave doing in his videos. I don't have crazy bouncing front like all FZ-07 he checked. Second test, after pumping bike down couple times he pulls it up (checking back and front). I have a little travel up in front suspension, but at the back no any free travel up at all when suspension is settled under bike's weight.

I ride in the flat-state and 99% of the time I am doing city commuting. Do I need to apply his fixes or just ride and "do not fix that is not broken"?

Dave suggests these fixes almost to every FZ-07 owner:
* to lift up front fork by 8mm in the triple clamp. He says FZ-07 front forks are hight to the moon.
* to shorten front spring spacer by 10mm
* use thinker oil (my bike-shop done this already).

would all this be better for my stunting? As soon as I come down it’s like the forks are telling my headlights to kiss the asphalt just doing a few things should stiffen it up

[balkor2]

On 5/3/2021 at 7:17 PM, cornerslider said:

I have no idea why Dave Moss has the "following" that he does???  I guess scare tactics work for "marketing" -

It is working for me, got me to read this when I watched a review where the guy referred to the front forks as "Flawed" and no one knew about them being flawed. 
Kind of made me look more into it but wasn't going to pull trigger and purchase anything but was willing to live and learn... if that bad I would have rode to PA with the bike and meet up with a NHRA shop and fix them as needed. He has the skill and tools to  do what is needed.  right next to his R1 drag bike

[M. Hausknecht]

Some guy in a "NHRA shop" might know something about how to set up a motorcycle suspension for the street, but it has nothing to do with how you set up a suspension for drag racing. I suggest you wait until you get your bike, ride it a few thousand miles and then decide if there are characteristics you don't like before throwing parts at it. Both the stock shock and forks on a '22 differ materially from what they were in '15 and '16 when Dave Moss was carrying on about the 07's suspension.

[Hamlet]

I do agree that the front suspension is very soft and rebound a bit. Riding in a straight line is quite nice, and it feels very smooth on the ride. Nevertheless, in curves, if you are going in an aggressive mode is not the best feeling but is more than okay. In my case, I am planning to change the fork oil using a 15w to feel it a bit more stiffen. I will use the same 400CC recommended in the manual and in the case I would like more stiffen, I will just add a bit more. I will let you know guys my impressions when I will have done the job.

[cornerslider]

Just now, balkor2 said:

It is working for me, got me to read this when I watched a review where the guy referred to the front forks as "Flawed" and no one knew about them being flawed. 
Kind of made me look more into it but wasn't going to pull trigger and purchase anything but was willing to live and learn... if that bad I would have rode to PA with the bike and meet up with a NHRA shop and fix them as needed. He has the skill and tools to  do what is needed.  right next to his R1 drag bike

I'm gonna put this as "kind" as I can, and NOT a personal attack.... I've learned quite a bit, when I took the approach from the "maybe I don't know, what I don't know?" department.... I once thought I could learn how to properly set-up a suspension, (on any bike).... The problem lies within the OEM parts. These "07" bikes are built to a price-point. Yamaha cuts corners where the majority of the market won't even notice it-  the suspension. I'm NOT suggesting full cartridge forks, and a full blown race suspension.... I've learned that it is a wise choice, to trade money for knowledge- I currently have the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit in my forks (about $400), and they did ALL the set-up to get me to 99% of what a cartridge fork can do for racers chasing championships on an 07.... I also learned that I can purchase a quality aftermarket shock, from a reputable local suspension dealer for less than $800, and he sets it up to match the front perfectly (for-free). I will most likely never sell my "07",  as it does EVERYTHING so well after upgrading the OEM suspension..... "Cutting spacers" most likely won't give you the desired results you are looking for. It may "appear" to do it on the surface.... It's like an Onion- there are many layers.... I honestly hope that Dave Moss reads this posts, and feels shame for the fear-mongering he is putting in the heads of unsuspecting 07 riders-

 

[Crazyaust]

I did the mod. It’s helps but it’s only a bandaid to the actual problem, after a month with the mod still had issues and decided to buy hyperpro’s suspension street box kit with fork springs and a rear shock

[balkor2]

3 hours ago, cornerslider said:

I'm gonna put this as "kind" as I can, and NOT a personal attack.... I've learned quite a bit, when I took the approach from the "maybe I don't know, what I don't know?" department.... I once thought I could learn how to properly set-up a suspension, (on any bike).... The problem lies within the OEM parts. These "07" bikes are built to a price-point. Yamaha cuts corners where the majority of the market won't even notice it-  the suspension. I'm NOT suggesting full cartridge forks, and a full blown race suspension.... I've learned that it is a wise choice, to trade money for knowledge- I currently have the Traxxion Dynamics AR-25 kit in my forks (about $400), and they did ALL the set-up to get me to 99% of what a cartridge fork can do for racers chasing championships on an 07.... I also learned that I can purchase a quality aftermarket shock, from a reputable local suspension dealer for less than $800, and he sets it up to match the front perfectly (for-free). I will most likely never sell my "07",  as it does EVERYTHING so well after upgrading the OEM suspension..... "Cutting spacers" most likely won't give you the desired results you are looking for. It may "appear" to do it on the surface.... It's like an Onion- there are many layers.... I honestly hope that Dave Moss reads this posts, and feels shame for the fear-mongering he is putting in the heads of unsuspecting 07 riders-

 

Thank you for the feedback. I don't know what I don't know.
In other departments I might be able to argue a point but in this department I can not, especially since I don't have the bike yet.  Not sure if this 6'1"+ older and fatter man will do to those forks and rear shock.

My priorities is my safety. So I listen, read, and ask questions

40+ years ago when I started riding, I was in a country small town road through creeks, cornfields, and back roads.  Didn't have a lot of traffic and everyone owned a gun (BB or otherwise LOL). I did a LOT of stupid and fun things Off and On the road. Laid bikes over and wrecked them so many times. One time hit a rock in the creek which cracked the bell housing 'DUCT TAPE to rescue'.  Learned from RM80's & Suzuki 125 and 185. Years later, Graduated to a Yamaha 400 xs Special (which I got my motorcycle license with) which then brings us to the 90s which Yamaha Radian. Sorry went off on a tangent and off topic, So back on topic. 

So the point I was getting at (horribly I might add), When you're younger you didn't think of health and safety. And In time you learn to listen and surrounded yourself with good people. I try and listen and learn from those whom I am sure know more then me. And then try to make the "right" decision(s). 

So in the context of this, without knowledge (as you mentioned) and peers to discuss\ask, fear-mongering works\ed. 

Again I appreciate the feedback.

[cornerslider]

I'm glad it was received well ..... The OEM suspension is set-up for about a 160# rider, so you would definitely benefit from proper springs for your weight. Beyond that, it up to you to decide how far down the rabbit hole you want to go...  Good Luck-

 

[bartman5impson]

Not sure who to trust. A guy who has spent decades tuning thousands of bikes or some internet expert

[nozeitgeist1800]

Just now, bartman5impson said:

Not sure who to trust. A guy who has spent decades tuning thousands of bikes or some internet expert

i assume this is mostly teasing, but i will say; the guy who works with thousands of bikes may not know as much about 1 specific bike as the internet expert who has spent thousands of hours with ONE bike. the internet expert is also probably more invested in making sure that that 1 specific bike is perfect, instead of thousands of bikes that are as good as one can get with the limited amount of time that they have. also, the guy on youtube may not be selling you a product, but he is definitely selling you something, always take click-baity things with at least 1 grain of salt. hes there to make money, making your bike run well is a second priority.

it's like that old adage - Jack of all trades, master of none.

(i realize that the rest of the saying is "but better than just the master of one", but i feel like this fits with this context lol)

Edited May 31, 2022 by nozeitgeist1800

[M. Hausknecht]

To be fair to Dave, the stock suspension has changed in significant respects for the better since Dave did his video. As for who to trust, I've watched many of Dave's videos (including many behind his pay wall) and while I don't take all of them at face value, I've found his approach to understanding tires and suspension to be useful. Having said that, I've been riding sport bikes for over 40 years, and building and racing bikes for on and off over 25 years. I've also read and studied a lot, including books on motorcycle engineering, and ICE theory and practice. I know there are other regular contributors to these pages with equal or greater experience and understanding. While this site was shutdown, I joined a few groups on FB related to the FZ/MT 07 and the new R7. I'll grant you, the level of ignorance and misinformation among those groups was most impressive. Here, however, there is a lot of good information and advice to be had.

Edited June 1, 2022 by M. Hausknecht

[cornerslider]

9 hours ago, bartman5impson said:

Not sure who to trust. A guy who has spent decades tuning thousands of bikes or some internet expert

Not sure if this was directed at me? If so, I never claimed to be an "expert" at anything .... In fact, I even encouraged members to benefit from my past failings, of trying "learn it myself". If you want to REALLY improve your suspension, my best advise is to find a local suspension tuner (NOT a YouTube "tuner"), and trade your hard earned money on improving your suspension components, and having said tuner- set it up to your liking. If you plan to keep your bike longterm, it's worth every penny -

[klx678]

On 4/16/2020 at 6:51 PM, Kyuzo said:

OMG, sometimes you guys overplay the simplicity of this bike. 

next, how to cook a perfect steak! 

Damn near got the latter down now on my grill.  

[klx678]

On 5/2/2021 at 11:57 AM, shinyribs said:

A good friend of mine sent me a link to this video today because I've got a FZ 07. " Omg , your bike is dangerous! You need to watch this!" 

Congrats, Dave. Your clickbait scare tactics are top notch.

 

 

Only scary to the non-mechanical.    I'd say most who watch the video realize it isn't fatal and only dangerous to those who might push the limits of the stock suspension beyond its limits.   I wasn't too concerned.  I also found it interesting that one set of modifications should cover all riders from a buck twenty woman to a 275 lb rider.   But hey, what do I know...   at least enough to read (or hear) between the lines of the "scare".