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Bent Sprocket - Advice Desired


rfmueller

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The bolt/nut combinations were all acting the same, all of them strange:  I couldn't even get close to 50ft pounds, much less 58.  I would tighten a bolt expecting it to begin getting tighter but it never would pass 45 pounds, then it would sort of slide back to something like 35 pounds.  There was nothing wrong with the wrench:  I've used it for years:  It's a fixed head type:  No rotating.  There's a long steel rod that points to the gauge.  As the drive torques, the rod moves based on the amount of flex.  I use it for tightening lugs nuts, and all torques on everything, down to 10 ft lbs.  It does go lower, but I wouldn't trust it that low.   EVERY single nut did the same thing.  The nuts only went so far down, then stopped regardless of the amount of turning I did.  One of them made the dreaded "click".  The others didn't, but obviously they were not going any further a few real turns before I gave up, so those are done.  Anyway, I think the nuts were just a bad batch.  Two of the bolts are chewed up a bit.  Some steel thread came out of one of the nuts.

 I had no idea a bushing could possibly sit cocked with that rod driven through them, which lead me to believe the run-out was real.  It wasn't (apparently), since the sprocket was dead flat perfect (better than the new sprockets) on a flat surface.  Now this bolt tightening issue.  I've spent a huge amount of time running down  parts and tools that will arrive in a reasonable amount of time, and without going directly to a dealer which would cost at least twice as much (with slower arrivals).  I'm at about $275 in to this ordeal, for something that didn't require any new parts (only a simple re-seating), and now a bad batch of nuts.  I hope to get $175 returned after sending back all the stuff and purchasing the new nuts and bolts.

This motorcycle thing is starting to feel like one huge burden after the next, in time, money, and anguish.  I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth it all, even as much as I love to ride. 

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23 minutes ago, rfmueller said:

This motorcycle thing is starting to feel like one huge burden after the next, in time, money, and anguish.  I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth it all, even as much as I love to ride. 

Hang in there brother. This minor fiasco will be behind you in no time! You will get back on the road and all will be good. 🙏

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5 hours ago, rfmueller said:

The bolt/nut combinations were all acting the same, all of them strange:  I couldn't even get close to 50ft pounds, much less 58.  I would tighten a bolt expecting it to begin getting tighter but it never would pass 45 pounds, then it would sort of slide back to something like 35 pounds.  There was nothing wrong with the wrench:  I've used it for years:  It's a fixed head type:  No rotating.  There's a long steel rod that points to the gauge.  As the drive torques, the rod moves based on the amount of flex.  I use it for tightening lugs nuts, and all torques on everything, down to 10 ft lbs.  It does go lower, but I wouldn't trust it that low.   EVERY single nut did the same thing.  The nuts only went so far down, then stopped regardless of the amount of turning I did.  One of them made the dreaded "click".  The others didn't, but obviously they were not going any further a few real turns before I gave up, so those are done.  Anyway, I think the nuts were just a bad batch.  Two of the bolts are chewed up a bit.  Some steel thread came out of one of the nuts.

 I had no idea a bushing could possibly sit cocked with that rod driven through them, which lead me to believe the run-out was real.  It wasn't (apparently), since the sprocket was dead flat perfect (better than the new sprockets) on a flat surface.  Now this bolt tightening issue.  I've spent a huge amount of time running down  parts and tools that will arrive in a reasonable amount of time, and without going directly to a dealer which would cost at least twice as much (with slower arrivals).  I'm at about $275 in to this ordeal, for something that didn't require any new parts (only a simple re-seating), and now a bad batch of nuts.  I hope to get $175 returned after sending back all the stuff and purchasing the new nuts and bolts.

This motorcycle thing is starting to feel like one huge burden after the next, in time, money, and anguish.  I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth it all, even as much as I love to ride. 

Heres my take, again I'm not a mechanic neither am I an engineer, but something went wrong, somewhere.  What! I don't know. What I do know is this, bikes in general (at least all the bikes I owned) are not Toyota Corolla's. They have a higher need for maintenance,  at lesser intervals. The way I see it is the rewards far outweigh the cost of maintenance intervals and issues. This a mantra I go by. "You gotta pay to play" I feel your frustration, but remember........ your "Play factor depends on you".. I know set up right , the bike will be far more capable than I am. Everytime I have an issue I never came across before, I look at it as a new Learning Experience. Tear it down and put it back together. 

Good Luck.

Dave.

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So, I'm checking to make sure that all of the components to the wheel are present, and cannot find a "collar wheel" that is listed in the diagram.  The pic isn't so great.  Would anybody have a picture of it?  I did have a new tire installed on the rim by a dealership, but I don't know if it's necessary for them to remove the sprocket to mount the new tire.   That is important because that's the only way the collar wheel could have gotten lost.  1RC-25383-00-00  They would have had to have taken off the sprocket assembly (which just lays in place; it's not bolted).

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11 minutes ago, rfmueller said:

So, I'm checking to make sure that all of the components to the wheel are present, and cannot find a "collar wheel" that is listed in the diagram.  The pic isn't so great.  Would anybody have a picture of it?  I did have a new tire installed on the rim by a dealership, but I don't know if it's necessary for them to remove the sprocket to mount the new tire.   That is important because that's the only way the collar wheel could have gotten lost.  1RC-25383-00-00  They would have had to have taken off the sprocket assembly (which just lays in place; it's not bolted).

According to your part # it is #14 in this diagram

collar_wheel.JPG.d957662f89feb7a74c64a2658af82f86.JPG

DewMan
 
Just shut up and ride.

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1 hour ago, DewMan said:

According to your part # it is #14 in this diagram

collar_wheel.JPG.d957662f89feb7a74c64a2658af82f86.JPG

Here's the diagram I am using.  Same part, different #. 

image.png.82fb79a7d1e7224231c9038af791137e.png

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1 minute ago, rfmueller said:

Here's the diagram I am using.  Same part, different #. 

 

It should be captured in the damper plate just under that inner bearing.

DewMan
 
Just shut up and ride.

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So what you're saying is that it's in there, right?  I can only see a bearing; it's sort of wide in the middle, and narrow looking at the outer ring.  The bearing doesn't really match the Yamaha diagram, so maybe this is a new design. ??

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17 minutes ago, rfmueller said:

So what you're saying is that it's in there, right?  I can only see a bearing; it's sort of wide in the middle, and narrow looking at the outer ring.  The bearing doesn't really match the Yamaha diagram, so maybe this is a new design. ??

I'm not aware of any changes to the rear wheel since 2014 model other than color changes. They call it a "collar" but it's more of a spacer. it rides between the wheel bearing and the outer bearing of the cush plate according the view. I should be visable from the reverse (inside facing) side of the cush plate.

Edit: I don't remember if it's a captured piece or not.

Here' a picture showing the collar:

Cush.thumb.jpg.b3239b49ec0b8ff7b33b0928efb855da.jpg

 

DewMan
 
Just shut up and ride.

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I stripped out also many of the rear sprocket nuts with 80 Nm. My serviceman from an official Yamahadealer told me to use 35 Nm, and he has tens of years of experience with Yamaha. No problems with the sprocket after 20'000 kilometers.

Edited by mt7fan
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Here's a pic of each side of the bearing that's pressed in to the cush plate.  You'll notice that on the second pic, the inner ring protrudes:

image.png.d4c842bdb3747f9e07c788ba19483929.png

 

image.png.70c3182e0a8d470892d2705c6a59a600.png

image.png

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3 minutes ago, rfmueller said:

Here's a pic of each side of the bearing that's pressed in to the cush plate.  You'll notice that on the second pic, the inner ring protrudes:

 

 

image.png.70c3182e0a8d470892d2705c6a59a600.png

 

Yes, that appears to be it on the backside view.

DewMan
 
Just shut up and ride.

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So that is the collar wheel with the bearing together, correct?

 

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3 minutes ago, rfmueller said:

So that is the collar wheel with the bearing together, correct?

 

Yep. 👍

DewMan
 
Just shut up and ride.

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1 hour ago, DewMan said:

I'm not aware of any changes to the rear wheel since 2014 model other than color changes. They call it a "collar" but it's more of a spacer. it rides between the wheel bearing and the outer bearing of the cush plate according the view. I should be visable from the reverse (inside facing) side of the cush plate.

Edit: I don't remember if it's a captured piece or not.

Here' a picture showing the collar:

Cush.thumb.jpg.b3239b49ec0b8ff7b33b0928efb855da.jpg

 

That's it! 

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This morning, although there is still a bolt and a nut that are very loose (replacements on the way), I put the bike together and rode it in to work.  Runs great!  Also was able to tap out most of the run-out in the rear sprocket before fully tightening down the wheel shaft.  Poor design, but at least it's back to a condition that would be normal.  No more chain vibration.   Lessons learned: that bushing can cause a nasty run-out, consequently causing a huge chain vibration.  And, the 58ft lb spec on the rear sprocket nuts could be damaging depending on the steel used for the bolt and nuts.  I'm going with 35ft lb. and some blue lock tight on the bolt posts.    

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19 hours ago, rfmueller said:

That's it! 

Yes it is,  this was the cause of my problem originally. It had fallen out before the seller shipped me the wheel and I assumed it was all good until the wheel started running out pushing the rotor into the caliper.I had a thread about it:

Rear wheel bearing problem!! WTF

By fzar, October 17, 2019 in Yamaha FZ-07 Problems and Answers

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cornerslider
5 hours ago, rfmueller said:

This morning, although there is still a bolt and a nut that are very loose (replacements on the way), I put the bike together and rode it in to work.  Runs great!  Also was able to tap out most of the run-out in the rear sprocket before fully tightening down the wheel shaft.  Poor design, but at least it's back to a condition that would be normal.  No more chain vibration.   Lessons learned: that bushing can cause a nasty run-out, consequently causing a huge chain vibration.  And, the 58ft lb spec on the rear sprocket nuts could be damaging depending on the steel used for the bolt and nuts.  I'm going with 35ft lb. and some blue lock tight on the bolt posts.    

I glad to hear you got it figured out- 😎

""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake"

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5 hours ago, rfmueller said:

This morning, although there is still a bolt and a nut that are very loose (replacements on the way), I put the bike together and rode it in to work.  Runs great!  Also was able to tap out most of the run-out in the rear sprocket before fully tightening down the wheel shaft.  Poor design, but at least it's back to a condition that would be normal.  No more chain vibration.   Lessons learned: that bushing can cause a nasty run-out, consequently causing a huge chain vibration.  And, the 58ft lb spec on the rear sprocket nuts could be damaging depending on the steel used for the bolt and nuts.  I'm going with 35ft lb. and some blue lock tight on the bolt posts.    

See, there you go. The world is a better place again! Glad you got it sorted out 👍

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Since the start of the COVID thing the roads have been great.  And, riding to work is an excuse to be out on the bike.  So grateful to have that little enjoyment back when the weather allows.

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45 minutes ago, fzar said:

Yes it is,  this was the cause of my problem originally. It had fallen out before the seller shipped me the wheel and I assumed it was all good until the wheel started running out pushing the rotor into the caliper.I had a thread about it:

Rear wheel bearing problem!! WTF

By fzar, October 17, 2019 in Yamaha FZ-07 Problems and Answers

Last night I found that post you wrote a while back.

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