Bike creeps in gear and doesn't want to shift to neutral

[Giovanni]

Sorry in advance for the novel but I figure the whole picture will make it easier to help. 

So I have this problem which I (kind of) know the solution to because I've solved it before, but now I think I solved it just out of pure luck. 

My gear shifting was fine and dandy until I decided to learn clutch up wheelies. During one session I fear I stretched the clutch cable or something because the bike started suddenly slipping when I gassed it. So I started learning how to play with the clutch adjusters, both at the handle and at the engine. I played and played until one day I got it to the sweet spot where shifting was seamless and it would shift to neutral no problem. But noooo I had to keep on playing because something told me I could get it to work better. 

Fast forward to now I've been playing with the adjuster for weeks and can't seem to get it to the right place. The bike creeps in gear and won't shift to neutral at a stand still. And clutchless shifting is damn near impossible. So my question I guess is....... 

How do I get the adjuster at the engine to sit at the right place (when I got it to work perfect the little dot on the clutch arm wasn't above the arrow on the engine. Does it have to be?) it seems now that no matter how I set the free play that problem persists. 

And I know there is a sweet spot. I've opened the clutch case to check the plates and the basket and everything seems fine. I think it's just a free play problem. But I can't find the spot. Hopefully someone has some insight. Thanks in advance 

[shinyribs]

Yeah, the clutch obviously isn't disengaging- at least not fully. 

You don't need to mess with anything inside the engine, or at the linkage leaving the side cover, to set your free play. If the tip of your clutch lever has about 1/2" of wiggle room you should be golden. Just use the wheel at the clutch perch.

 

Clutchless shifting is, well, clutchless! So anything regarding the freeplay and disengaging of the clutch will not have an effect on being able to clutchlees shift.

[stickshift]

Sounds like an adjustment issue. Check the pic & make sure yours is fitted the same, then adjust the clutch lever end until it bites how you like it. If it can’t be adjusted properly you’ve either stretched the clutch cable or burnt out clutch plates (both unlikely).

Edited February 26, 2020 by stickshift

[Giovanni]

17 hours ago, shinyribs said:

Yeah, the clutch obviously isn't disengaging- at least not fully. 

You don't need to mess with anything inside the engine, or at the linkage leaving the side cover, to set your free play. If the tip of your clutch lever has about 1/2" of wiggle room you should be golden. Just use the wheel at the clutch perch.

 

Clutchless shifting is, well, clutchless! So anything regarding the freeplay and disengaging of the clutch will not have an effect on being able to clutchlees shift.

Be that as it may. The amount of free play has an effect on my my clutch less shifting. Because when it was working fine the gears wanted to shift. Now you have to fight it. 

I literally turn the adjustment wheel one click at a time and can't find the sweet spot. I honestly don't know 

[shinyribs]

The freeplay on the clutch lever cannot effect clutchless shifting, since you are shifting with the clutch fully engaged. Unless you had no freeplay and were actually partially disengaging the clutch, but that would cook the clutch friction plates in short order. Or, it could cause the steels to warp and buckle, which would not allow the clutch to disengage - which aligns with your symptoms. 

I would ensure your clutch cable is properly adjusted, even if you need to get someone local to give you hand. If hard shifting persists, then I'd look inside. 

[norcal616]

Something internal is out of place due to you taking clutch apart or you cooked the clutch like an xmas ham... 

 

[geophb]

Check clutch action while pushing it around in 1st. Clutch in, should push almost as easy as neutral. Clutch out, should pretty much lock/drag the rear tire if your in 1st.       (Higher gears will just roll the motor over, like roll starting it)

On 2/25/2020 at 11:36 PM, shinyribs said:

Yeah, the clutch obviously isn't disengaging- at least not fully. 

^This.

[klx678]

Sounds to me like clutch plates warped from the heat of a lot of slippage.   The price a friend of mine said was the cost for his ability to ride first through sixth gear wheelies on his VFR and probably everything else he has owned since.   

 

No idea on the clutchless shifting since, as stated before, having the clutch fully engaged it should make no difference in the shifting.   Maybe you are damaging the gear box...  the other price my friend said he had to "pay", replacing a few due to first-second and second-third engagement problems.

 

Sometimes wheelies are overpriced... 

Edited February 27, 2020 by klx678

[peteinpa]

Sometimes?  ^^^

[mossrider]

If those 'dots' aren't lined up or nearly so, your clutch is not working properly. It is either slipping (being engaged to some degree all the time) OR it is not working at all, i.e. unable to operate depending on which side of perpendicular the arm is facing. 

If you 'stretch a clutch cable' it cannot and will not begin to slip or slip more. It will behave in opposite fashion, it will seem to not disengage or disengage less than previously. The operation of these clutches can not be 'fine tuned'. A clutch pack that is in spec will be engaged or disengaged or some point in between as specified by the degree of lever operation. The only real way this changes or is supposed to change is through wear. 

My guess, from your description of symptoms, is that you've worn it out slipping it or 'clutching up' wheelies, which happens. Then you've reassembled it incorrectly as indicated by the dots sudden misalignment during your 'inspection'. It will never be able to be 'fine tuned' in its present or any other condition. That's not how these clutches function. If it drags in gear while disengaged it is worn out or grossly out of adjustment. Your 'hard shifting' is another symptom of hard use, stunting, wheelies and excessive/abusive fun. My guess is that you've made a lot of forceful shifts as the clutch wore or became misadjusted. This puts excessive stress of the shift forks and can bend them, it can ding up the edges of the engagement dogs as well making the bike both not want to shift out of one gear or into the next gear. 

The fix for the clutch is to replace the worn clutch parts after checking both friction (fibers) and driven (steels) plates. Normally the frictions will wear at roughly a 2 to 1 rate as compared to the steels but that can vary based on use. Stunters and racers are harder than Sunday boppers in general, touring riders almost never. Odds are you need a set of friction plates and a cover gasket, around $85. I know you have the manual.  Follow it for replacement and reassembly and you'll be good to go. 

If damaged the fix for the transmission is, well you don't want know, expensive and involved and not for the novice.

$.02

 

[mossrider]

Here's a quick video I made during happy hour about the clutch cover and clutch arm and putting things back together. 

I know it's short and I know I've glossed over things like the cover gasket and alignment dowels but this video shows how easy it is to get the lever right OR how easy it is to get it misaligned if you're not careful putting the cover back on.  

I hope this helps. Kinda important, and kinda tricky the first time you do it, to get it just right.

This can be done with motor in bike of course or motor out. If in bike you can put bike on sidestand or lean it against your work bench to keep oil from draining out. Or you can drain oil if you're on a rear stand or work table which hold the bike vertically. 

If, while holding the lever arm in its far forward position via finger pressure, the lever arm is at 1 o clock while facing the clutch cover it's incorrect. If it's at 11 o clock it's incorrect. It takes a little putzing the first time or 2 to get it right.

I also use a few dabs of sealant or grease to hold the gasket to the engine side during reassembly and don't forget the alignment dowels. 

[1tondriver]

1 hour ago, mossrider said:

Here's a quick video I made during happy hour about the clutch cover and clutch arm and putting things back together. 

I know it's short and I know I've glossed over things like the cover gasket and alignment dowels but this video shows how easy it is to get the lever right OR how easy it is to get it misaligned if you're not careful putting the cover back on.  

I hope this helps. Kinda important, and kinda tricky the first time you do it, to get it just right.

This can be done with motor in bike of course or motor out. If in bike you can put bike on sidestand or lean it against your work bench to keep oil from draining out. Or you can drain oil if you're on a rear stand or work table which hold the bike vertically. 

If, while holding the lever arm in its far forward position via finger pressure, the lever arm is at 1 o clock while facing the clutch cover it's incorrect. If it's at 11 o clock it's incorrect. It takes a little putzing the first time or 2 to get it right.

I also use a few dabs of sealant or grease to hold the gasket to the engine side during reassembly and don't forget the alignment dowels. 

And don’t forget Bandaids, lots of Bandaids!