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Bigturbomax

Is it time to replace my chain???

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Bigturbomax

So as the title implies, im unsure if i should be getting ready to replace my chain. Im attaching some pictures. Chain has almost 16,000 miles on it now. It is original as are the sprockets. It doesnt make any noise outside of the same noise these dang bikes always make. I frequently removed front sprocket cover when cleaning/lubing chain and clean the gunk out of there. I give the chain attention every other weekend so around every 700ish miles. The sprockets look to be in excellent shape. The chain ive noticed is getting little brown spots here and there between plates that i believe suggest lost O rings. Other wise it never seems to have any noticable kinks. What is yalls thoughts on the state of this chain? 

Keep rolling till about 20k and keep an eye on it? Or change it sooner? 

PhotoGrid_1581299545015.jpg

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Bigturbomax

Oh and side note i adjusted it once right after break in when new, once around 8 or 9k and again today. Its never really needed adjusting. I think some of that is related to the fact that compared to most folks i ride like a grandpa. Dont misunderstand, i accelerate hard some times and play and have fun.....but prolly <5% of my riding is "spririted" and i dont do wheelies. I generally treat the bike pretty gently. 

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mossrider

That doesn't look all that bad. However; at 16,000 it's in the window for average chain/sprocket life. That rusty spot between plates suggests to me that pin is dry and has been compromised and is nearing its death. That means the chain is done, sooner than later.

The one check I would suggest is to clean and lube it, then, at the 3:00 o'clock postion,  pinch and pull the chain straight away from the rear sprocket. If it shows more than a half tooth under the chain it's time.

Order up a new set of chain and sprockets to have on hand for next service.  At +16,000 miles you got your money's worth.

$.02 

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YZEtc

I agree with the above.

If the chain is ejecting rust-colored stuff, the pin that goes through the bushing (the critical joint that is sealed by the X-Rings) has dried-up. Once that happens, it's spent and is time for replacement.

On my street bikes, I have a habit of replacing the chain and sprockets at the start of every riding season. Sounds like overkill, but I never have to contend with this stuff by doing it that way. Even if you chose not to do it that often, in my opinion, 16,000 miles is more than enough to feel as though you got your money's worth out of it.

I'd replace the chain and sprockets. I use a quality brand X-Ring chain (I choose DID brand) and use a rivet-type master link.

Buy a new front sprocket nut, too, as they are intended to be replaced after one use. This is due to the method used to secure the nut in place and prevent it loosening.

Edited by YZEtc
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Bigturbomax

Per @mossrider, this is at rest versus pulled. Took a lot of force to pull it that far. 

 

PhotoGrid_1581337213114.jpg

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mossrider
33 minutes ago, Bigturbomax said:

Per @mossrider, this is at rest versus pulled. Took a lot of force to pull it that far. 

BT, you have a gentile wrist indeed but alas tis time. That small amount of slack pull at that mileage is impressive tho.

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Bigturbomax

Thanks for the input guys. I was pretty sure it was time. Crummy part is i got laid off 3 weeks ago and just started a new job this week so i cant afford the whole kaboodle. Ugh 😕

i may just have to install a cheap chain for now and invest in a high quality set in a couple months when the finances stabilize. 

Anyone here tried those Volar chains? I found about 50/50 mixed reviews on adv rider.

Check this out at Amazon.com
Volar O-Ring Chain - Blue for 2015-2016 Yamaha FZ07 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S5H31XS/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_2WvqEbFPY53K3

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klx678
3 hours ago, mossrider said:

BT, you have a gentile wrist indeed but alas tis time. That small amount of slack pull at that mileage is impressive tho.

i agree, I wouldn't replace it.  I'd run it until it shows more wear.   Doesn't look that bad and there is totally no sense in putting a new chain on old sprocket, it will ruin the chain in short order.  Better to run the old one longer then replace sprockets and chain.   

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shinyribs

An old sprocket can only hurt a new chain if the teeth are severely worn down. 

If the sprocket teeth are severely worn it effectively changes the pitch/size of the sprocket- eg. the teeth are now further apart than intended.

The fact that your chain has such little gap when pulled ( mossrider and yztec are shooting you straight) shows that your chain is not "stretched". 

Chains don't really stretch. The inner pins wear down creating clearance that effectively makes the chain longer, but the plates aren't stretched.

This "stretched" chain condition is what abuses sprockets and causes funny tooth wear. The chain is "stretched" and the sprocket is being reformed to fit it. 

BUT, your chain is obviously not stretched and therefore you sprockets are not deformed. It takes a LONG time to really wear down a steel sprocket. 

Again, mossrider and yztec are shooting you straight on the rust issue. You may only have one bad pin in that area, but that's enough to snap on you. If it were me, I would definitely replace that chain, but I wouldn't think twice about reusing your existing sprockets after an inspection. Judging by your picture the rear sprocket looks good as new.  We can't see the front sprocket, but you can grab those for about $15 if it's worn. Front sprockets will wear faster than rears. 

I've seen front sprockets that have actually been worn out, not just damaged by "stretched" chains. I have never seen a rear sprocket that was genuinely worn out. Only ones that got beat to death by bad chains. 

edit:

p.s.- I did play with another front sprocket for a bit, but returned to my original front sprocket. I'm currently at 18k miles on my chain and sprockets and also have no signs of "stretch" on my chain. I've seen many steel sprockets go over 50k miles.  That rusty pin could create one stretched spot that could be abusing your sprockets as that one area passes over the teeth, though. 

Edited by shinyribs
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shinyribs
On 2/10/2020 at 8:39 AM, Bigturbomax said:

Thanks for the input guys. I was pretty sure it was time. Crummy part is i got laid off 3 weeks ago and just started a new job this week so i cant afford the whole kaboodle. Ugh 😕

i may just have to install a cheap chain for now and invest in a high quality set in a couple months when the finances stabilize. 

Anyone here tried those Volar chains? I found about 50/50 mixed reviews on adv rider.

Check this out at Amazon.com
Volar O-Ring Chain - Blue for 2015-2016 Yamaha FZ07 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S5H31XS/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_2WvqEbFPY53K3

I've never used a Volar chain, but I can't find any info on that listing stating the tensile strength of that chain.  That doesn't mean it's bad, just hard to verify it's strength. 

On the topic of cheap chain recommendations...

I used a couple BikeMaster chains with great success, then I got one that was garbage. So that scared me off that brand.

I'm currently running a couple FirePower chains on some dirt bikes and they are solid. Granted, we're talking about 250lb bikes with 20hp, but I wouldn't be afraid to give one a try if I needed.

Full disclosure: I run DID's when I can. They have proven to be better chains and the Xring advantage is very apparent compared to other sealed chains. Not buying the best doesn't mean you are buying something that is bad, though. 

 

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geophb

Id lube it up and keep rollin. A little surface rust wont hurt anything. As stated, you don't stress your bike very hard.  With your 700 mile maintenance intervals you would definitely notice something wrong before it would fail bad enough to cause damage or leave you stranded.

That said, your obviously concerned about it and you already got 16,000 miles out of them.  You could change them just for piece of mind. Or order up a set to have when you need them but at that point you might as well change em.  Full oem setup is $230 shipped on partzilla.com as a worst case scenario btw

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peteinpa

Seeing thst rust dust has always meant chain death for me. It wont be long and it will be kinking. You can't lube that out. O-rings have died, factory grease is gone.

Had a CBR1100XX I put 80k miles on. Got some chain experience. I used DID ZVM Xring chains, BEST THERE IS. New front sprocket every time, new rear every other chain. Got 20-25k miles out of chains on that 150 HP beast.

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Got new red 2015 FZ-07 on 7/22/16!
Black 2006 Honda ST1300 53K miles.

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Bigturbomax
vsf1586-16_2bvsr1876-45_2bwhite_e033acaf

Buy 2015-2016 Yamaha FZ07 O-Ring Chain and Sprocket Kit -...

 

I found this listing for a sprocket kit with that brand chain. It claims 9,850 lbs tensile strength. Who knows.

Im just gonna have to use the cage more often till work smooths out. 

 

 

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Bigturbomax
1 hour ago, peteinpa said:

Seeing thst rust dust has always meant chain death for me. It wont be long and it will be kinking. You can't lube that out. O-rings have died, factory grease is gone.

Had a CBR1100XX I put 80k miles on. Got some chain experience. I used DID ZVM Xring chains, BEST THERE IS. New front sprocket every time, new rear every other chain. Got 20-25k miles out of chains on that 150 HP beast.

That sounds pretty good. Ill check em out when i can afford to lol

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DewMan
1 minute ago, Bigturbomax said:

Im just gonna have to use the cage more often till work smooths out. 

 

In the long run you'll save $$ by buying quality brand names chain and sprockets.  The additional miles you'll get will more than cover the additional cost.


DewMan
 
Just shut up and ride.

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InsaneDawe

I would mess around with amazon a bit, since amazon treats each chain length as a unique part. Some are much cheaper than others. Like this RK chain

RK XSO (An X oring chain mid/upper teir) in our size - 108 links- $95

RK XSO - 140 links - $46

Same Quality, just cut off 32 links. Use amazon/ebay to your advantage.

 

While you're in there, pick up a front and rear sprocket. JT is a oem quality and usually dirt cheap for front sprockets and I've had luck finding dirt cheap Vortex rear sprockets.  Find and search by part numbers from all the major brands; Renthal, Vortex, Driven, Sunstar, Superlite, etc and you're bound to find a sweet deal.

Edited by InsaneDawe
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klx678
On 2/12/2020 at 9:32 AM, peteinpa said:

Seeing thst rust dust has always meant chain death for me. It wont be long and it will be kinking. You can't lube that out. O-rings have died, factory grease is gone.

Had a CBR1100XX I put 80k miles on. Got some chain experience. I used DID ZVM Xring chains, BEST THERE IS. New front sprocket every time, new rear every other chain. Got 20-25k miles out of chains on that 150 HP beast.

And that is when you get rid of it.  When it kinks that is the pin getting tight due to rust in the link.  I've never seen a pin break, but have actually had a side plate fracture and break.   I would be with those who say lube it up and run it - until you get tight links.  The chain can rust on the roller or side plates if it has all the lube worn off.  Some lube and you're good to go.   

I get around 15,000 miles out of an O-ring DID or RK on my KLX650 with really poor care on my part and lots of dust, dirt, and some mud on it from dual sport and dirt/gravel road riding.   Around that 15,000 mile mark the sprockets are showing some hooking - to the trained eye, possibly not to the lesser experienced motorcyclist - and time to go too.   I figure I should see a whole lot more miles than 15,000 on my 700, not gonna be dirt riding with it and a bit better on chain lubing. too.

Edited by klx678

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YZEtc

I've had a drive chain fracture and break the side plate, too. As you said, it is from the pin seizing in the bushing it is supposed to be able to freely pivot in, and pivot while having force applied to it.

When the lube is spent and the pin corrodes, rusts, and eventually starts to seize (that's the kink starting to happen), it won't be able to pivot as the chain turns the corner around the sprockets and also won't be able to pivot and straighten back out after leaving the sprocket teeth. When the pin can't pivot under load as it is supposed to, it tends to stay kinked which fatigues the side plate as it transfers the load to the side plate in a way it is not supposed to be loaded, eventually tearing the side plate in two like a sheet of paper.

That will give you an idea of how much force and energy is being harnessed with a drive chain, and that's why you don't want to cut corners or try to nurse a spent chain along for more mileage.

Edited by YZEtc

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klx678
2 hours ago, YZEtc said:

I've had a drive chain fracture and break the side plate, too. As you said, it is from the pin seizing in the bushing it is supposed to be able to freely pivot in, and pivot while having force applied to it.

When the lube is spent and the pin corrodes, rusts, and eventually starts to seize (that's the kink starting to happen), it won't be able to pivot as the chain turns the corner around the sprockets and also won't be able to pivot and straighten back out after leaving the sprocket teeth. When the pin can't pivot under load as it is supposed to, it tends to stay kinked which fatigues the side plate as it transfers the load to the side plate in a way it is not supposed to be loaded, eventually tearing the side plate in two like a sheet of paper.

That will give you an idea of how much force and energy is being harnessed with a drive chain, and that's why you don't want to cut corners or try to nurse a spent chain along for more mileage.

I didn't say it was due to a pin seizing.   I will say if the pins actually seize up to the point where they won't straighten out adequately it will be readily noticeable in the ride, it's going to definitely be a jerky ride. 

I am fairly certain mine broke due to an over tightened drive chain.  I will also say it was the OEM chain which had a hole through the back side plate, not sure why, but they were there.    The fracture showed it happened over time - dirty fracture surface and clean fresh fracture surface - fracturing from a stress riser at the hole or the outer edge of the link on one side to start.  One half to one side of the hole was dirty the other side showed a bit of darkness in part of the fracture then clean on the fracture when the break completed.  The chain then derailed, not breaking the solid side plate, but bending it pretty good.   I figure there had to be a constant pulling action on the plate beyond that of normal stress from the engine drive.  

That is the one where I decided to ignore the owner's manual slack recommendation when adjusting the chain and to do it like I do my dual sport bikes.   Actually find what will be right.

I don't take the factory chain slack as the proper amount.  Now I verify what is needed.   I pull the back of the bike down until the counter shaft, swing arm pivot, and rear axle are in line - the point where the drive chain is pulled the tightest, then adjust the chain until there is about 1/2 to 1 inch of slack in the chain.  Then I let up the rear and check how much slack is in the chain and use that as my proper adjustment slack amount.  A drive chain should never run under tension due to adjustment.   It will over stress the chain and possibly damage counter shaft and/or axle bearings and seals.  

As I learned, my Zephyr 550 requires a fair amount of chain slack, more than most would feel is correct.   It really looks sloppy.   I also realize that when you consider how much chain slack is in the drive of an off road bike and the slamming around it takes, there is no way a street bike will throw a chain with a bit more slack than the manual or most people would think is too loose.   A thrown chain usually has other factors that cause it through sprocket misalignment or some foreign material causing it to derail.  

By the way I've run my KLX650 with a pretty "chunky" chain without problem after finding a tight link or two, although I will have ordered the new sprocket shortly after finding the condition.   I can feel the bit of tightness causing some ride issues before it tightens to an extreme.  I'm thinking back and I believe you can hear an unevenness to the sound of the drive - if your exhaust isn't too loud.

Edited by klx678

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YZEtc

Seized pin/bushing joint is what broke the chain I had. Chain was run like that and both side plates fatigued and ripped in half.

Lesson learned.

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bugeyes

Check for stiff links and if you don't have them you're good. That chain does not look worn out to me and the rusted spot could be harmless surface rust if the link moves freely. I would run it and save up for a quality chain and sprockets kit rather than just swapping the chain for a cheap one.

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Bigturbomax

Ok. Still wont have enough for chain and sprocket for another few weeks at soonest. In the meantime i picked up a new master link so i can remove the chain to better inspect it and check out the sprockets properly. Will upload a few images in a sec. Sprockets look amazing. Chain has a couple stiff links. I separated the chain at a link that had lost its o-ring. 

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Bigturbomax

PhotoGrid_1582491902485.jpg

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Bigturbomax

So I'm hoping to get the tighter links to move more freely and give the chain a better clean/lube than i can on the bike. Itll set my mind at ease on the state of wear for the time bring. Now that its all apart everything looks better than i had thought really

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Bigturbomax

Well no more sticky links and chain is back on the bike. Time to wash up and take a short test ride. Ill still be getting a new chain in a few weeks either way. 

20200223_175004.jpg

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