Powervision 3 problem

[AP996]

Hi, just bought a dynojet Powervision 3 , not tried it yet but have contacted Dynojet’s technical help with a query about saving the existing tune I already have. Dynojet tell me that my Powervision won’t be able to work with my ecu if it has been previously flashed via ftecu or woolwich!

Does anybody here know of a way round this other than changing the ecu which I believe would mean changing the locks and keys because of the immobiliser on European models.

Looks like I might have an expensive ornament for the garage shelf.

[Evill_Ed]

1 hour ago, AP996 said:

Hi, just bought a dynojet Powervision 3 , not tried it yet but have contacted Dynojet’s technical help with a query about saving the existing tune I already have. Dynojet tell me that my Powervision won’t be able to work with my ecu if it has been previously flashed via ftecu or woolwich!

Does anybody here know of a way round this other than changing the ecu which I believe would mean changing the locks and keys because of the immobiliser on European models.

Looks like I might have an expensive ornament for the garage shelf.

Was your ECU flashed or is it stock? 

[AP996]

Yes my ecu was already flashed.

Might try connecting it at the weekend just in case I’m lucky but Dynojet are adamant it won’t be able to pair with the ecu if it’s already been flashed by ftecu or similar.

[stickshift]

If it doesn’t work out you might be able to sell/swap the PV3 for a PCV. That will certainly work with the flashed ecu but takes more time to install.

[geophb]

Id try it but I doubt it will work.  I just looked on ebay and used ecu are $125-200, then resell the one thats in there. I would do that before I did a power commander.  No offense intended to anyone that has a pcv.

[AP996]

6 hours ago, geophb said:

Id try it but I doubt it will work.  I just looked on ebay and used ecu are $125-200, then resell the one thats in there. I would do that before I did a power commander.  No offense intended to anyone that has a pcv.

I can get an ecu here in the UK but I believe we have an immobiliser built into European spec ones which in theory means I need the matching ignition and keys, however I see people selling immobiliser bypasses on eBay for £29 so I may need to try that route, there’s also the risk that I buy another ecu from a breaker then find that one has been flashed as well!

still life’s rarely easy

Edited January 17, 2020 by AP996
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[geophb]

39 minutes ago, AP996 said:

I can get an ecu here in the UK but I believe we have an immobiliser built into European spec ones which in theory means I need the matching ignition and keys, however I see people selling immobiliser bypasses on eBay for £29 so I may need to try that route, there’s also the risk that I buy another ecu from a breaker then find that one has been flashed as well!

still life’s rarely easy

In the service manual I found on the line for a 2014 MT07 there is a section about registering your existing keys to the new ecu, so a replacement ecu is still an option.

But if your luck is anything like mine then you will defn get a peviously flashed used ecu. 

[AP996]

On 1/17/2020 at 7:42 PM, geophb said:

In the service manual I found on the line for a 2014 MT07 there is a section about registering your existing keys to the new ecu, so a replacement ecu is still an option.

But if your luck is anything like mine then you will defn get a peviously flashed used ecu. 

I think that refers to replacement with a new virgin ecu, don’t think it will work with a previously registered ecu. Doesn’t seem to be that much information out there.

[norcal616]

If your ECU is already flashed, what are you trying to achieve with the PV3? 

Flashed ECUs are like 97% good enough...

[AP996]

38 minutes ago, norcal616 said:

If your ECU is already flashed, what are you trying to achieve with the PV3? 

Flashed ECUs are like 97% good enough...

I’ve now removed the airbox, shortened intake runners, fitted bell mouths and foam filter, picked up a good power increase on Dyno but engine running really lean on part throttle. Didn’t want to keep mailing ecu back for reflashing so thought I’d sort it myself, considered pcv, ftecu or PV3, thought the PV3 looked the best option but didn’t see anything about not working with flashed ecu’s when researching. Seems I’d have been better off with either of the other options.

Hopefully this will help others on here making the same mistake.

[norcal616]

Gotcha... the PCV route might work... you would just have to start with a blank map and add fuel values where its needed... I do know when I ran my Hordpower airbox and PCV my ECU was still flashed but only the fan temps was changed... also I had to run an extra wire to allow the PCV to "run per gear maps" vs one map for all gears... 

[mossrider]

It's been so long I'm not sure I remember exactly what we did with each but here's kind of an overview;

When I first put this together 2015/16 I had the ecu flashed by Ftech. It was not a street flash and included such things as raising the rev limiter to around 10,700 rpm, eliminating the decel fuel cut, eliminating any per gear power restrctions, raising the fan temps, and (eventually) installing a hard wired quick shifter into the ecu block. 

I raced it this way for a year or so with decent results. But I began having some connectivity trouble with the direct wired quick shifter. I removed the fan all together early on but I was not able to make trackside adjustments to anything tho and that was a pain. Since my tuner was more familiar with PC5's we added one of those piggy back to the ecu flash and a seperate dynojet quickshifter in addition to a dual map switch. Viola, instant more better. I could switch between gp and standard shift quick shifter trackside to accommodate team members on endurance events, I could make adjustments to my rpm range/fuel/ignition cuts per gear for quickshifter function, adjust fuel injection and ignition maps per gear, was able to develop seperate maps for pump gas and race fuel and we could tune it as I incrementally added engine performance over the next years.

I've had really good luck with a pc5 piggybacked on the original flash at least in my track application anyway.

Sorry I can't be more specific. 

[AP996]

Thanks for the advice guys but I think I’m going to try the replacement ecu and immobiliser bypass, this is going to get way more expensive than planned but I’m interested to see what the powervision is like.

with my luck I can see a load of fried electronics coming.

[AP996]

Update, bought a second hand ecu from a breaker for just £44 and an immobiliser bypass from eBay for £25, had my doubts about the immobiliser bypass but it all worked and the bike fired straight up. Luckily it looks like the replacement ecu hasn’t been flashed so the powervision 3 can now communicate with it.

I haven’t flashed the ecu yet or paired the powervision to it as I’m waiting until I have worked out using the software and have a map written that I think will richen up the areas mainly part throttle that I’m running lean.

Shows that the immobiliser on the European bikes is a complete waste of time when it can be beaten for £25, still at least it means anyone who has trouble with their immobiliser or loses their red key can get by with out having to sell their soul to a Yamaha dealer.

[geophb]

13 hours ago, AP996 said:

Update, bought a second hand ecu from a breaker for just £44 and an immobiliser bypass from eBay for £25, had my doubts about the immobiliser bypass but it all worked and the bike fired straight up. Luckily it looks like the replacement ecu hasn’t been flashed so the powervision 3 can now communicate with it.

I haven’t flashed the ecu yet or paired the powervision to it as I’m waiting until I have worked out using the software and have a map written that I think will richen up the areas mainly part throttle that I’m running lean.

Shows that the immobiliser on the European bikes is a complete waste of time when it can be beaten for £25, still at least it means anyone who has trouble with their immobiliser or loses their red key can get by with out having to sell their soul to a Yamaha dealer.

Awesome! If you have any questions on the software let me know.  It took me some time to figure it all out, they dont label stuff the best.

Im considering buying wideband kit (WB-PV22-1) which might be a good option if your trying to tune part throttle. Only reason I havent bought it is my bike runs great and its $350 

[AP996]

5 hours ago, geophb said:

Awesome! If you have any questions on the software let me know.  It took me some time to figure it all out, they dont label stuff the best.

Im considering buying wideband kit (WB-PV22-1) which might be a good option if your trying to tune part throttle. Only reason I havent bought it is my bike runs great and its $350 

Like the idea of the wideband kit, but by the time it’s shipped to the UK and then local taxes added it would be more like 500 dollars! 
Thanks for the offer of help with the software, I do have one question at the moment, I notice in the stock and dynojet tune maps that cylinder 1 gets slightly more fuel than cylinder 2, the only reason I can see for this is perhaps the crooked inlet on cylinder 2 with the stock airbox, as I now have identical inlets with bell mouths and a twin inlet foam filter I plan to copy the fuelling from cylinder 1 to the table for cylinder 2, I don’t see any easy way to copy one table to another at the moment. Doing it manually one input at a time will be time consuming, I’m probably missing something obvious though to be fair I’ve not had much time to look at it yet and information is pretty thin.

I’m importing the dynojet power commander map that I had flashed onto my ecu originally as then I’m starting from the same spec that I had the last Dyno run done with.

Here some pictures of my inlets

[geophb]

To highlight the entire table just click the upper and left most cell in the header column. Then just right click then copy and paste in desired place.

As to why the maps are different. I brought this up in another thread and it was thrown aside and taken out of context. But The reason the maps are different is that cyl 1 sees higher coolant temperatures than cyl 2 due to cyl 1 being after cyl 2 in the coolant flow path.  The maps are different by as much as 7-8% correct?  I wouldn't think a small bend in the intake runner would change fuel by 8% (especially all choked up with snorkel and factory exhaust). 

I would leave the maps different. Then change the maps by adding multipliers to specific areas then apply some smoothing to to prevent any "high or low" spots in the data.  Thats how I have been tuning but of course you can do however you see fit. 

[AP996]

18 minutes ago, geophb said:

To highlight the entire table just click the upper and left most cell in the header column. Then just right click then copy and paste in desired place.

As to why the maps are different. I brought this up in another thread and it was thrown aside and taken out of context. But The reason the maps are different is that cyl 1 sees higher coolant temperatures than cyl 2 due to cyl 1 being after cyl 2 in the coolant flow path.  The maps are different by as much as 7-8% correct?  I wouldn't think a small bend in the intake runner would change fuel by 8% (especially all choked up with snorkel and factory exhaust). 

I would leave the maps different. Then change the maps by adding multipliers to specific areas then apply some smoothing to to prevent any "high or low" spots in the data.  Thats how I have been tuning but of course you can do however you see fit. 

Thank you, that’s a great help.

I hadn’t considered different coolant temperatures, but that makes perfect sense now. I will leave the fuelling difference and just concentrate on adding fuel where the Dyno runs show I need it.

I haven’t got as far as looking at smoothing yet but I assume that you highlight an area of the map and click the smooth button?

Thanks again for any advice, great to have from someone who’s already using Powervision

[geophb]

You will have to play around with the smoothing some but yes just highlight and hit smooth. 

Vertical and horizontal interpolating are self explanatory but not really smoothing because it uses the end points to interpolate values. The smooth button does like a rolling average in the selected area.  

[norcal616]

You need per gear mapping tuning... otherwise it's one map for all gears... 

[Cruizin]

Moving this thread to the ECU flash section where it belongs. 

[geophb]

13 hours ago, norcal616 said:

You need per gear mapping tuning... otherwise it's one map for all gears... 

Stock tune has ignition maps for each gear but not fuel. Not really needed for fuel side though. 

[AP996]

So finally got around to flashing a new map to the ecu, imported the power commander map that was flashed on my original ecu and then added 2% fuel everywhere up to 9000 rpm and then another 2% between 5250 and 6250 rpm at up to 58% throttle, this being approximately the area where the bike was running really lean.

Had to try it out even though roads still a little damp, bike seemed to run fine, difficult to say if better than before as sometime since last ridden with it being winter. No doubt will be making more adjustments and hope to check it out on the Dyno before the spring.

Weirdly I thought the exhaust sounded quieter, though could be my imagination.