Speed sensor in Bike with ABS

[Raptor MT-07]

Hey everyone!

Help needed with this problem.
I have a Yamaha Raptor (quad) with an MT-07 engine in it
This engine came off a 2016 Bike which had ABS.
Since I use it on a quad and can't use the ABS system I've cut it out of the wiring loom.
I've bought a new OEM Speedsensor but i can't seem to get it working properly, speed goes up and down while in first gear. (with the back wheels in the air on a stand)
The sensor is wired directly to the ECU ( not in the wiring loom) to the corresponding colour coded wires.
Can anybody help me out with some tips?
Thank you in advance!

[norcal616]

Can you verify TC( traction control) is actually off if you can toggle it on/off??

Otherwise ECU thinking front wheel is locked up and trying to correct that??? I think something similar happened with the FZ-09 when tuners started learning how to tune the ECU, they turned the TC off to tune the ECU...

Might have to get a non ABS ECU? Or trick ECU into thinking TC is off...

[Raptor MT-07]

26 minutes ago, norcal616 said:

Can you verify TC( traction control) is actually off if you can toggle it on/off??

Otherwise ECU thinking front wheel is locked up and trying to correct that??? I think something similar happened with the FZ-09 when tuners started learning how to tune the ECU, they turned the TC off to tune the ECU...

Might have to get a non ABS ECU? Or trick ECU into thinking TC is off...

Thank you for your reply,
I can't verify that but I will look into it 
The MT-07 cockpit doesn't display any fault codes however the ABS light is on ( obviously because there is no ABS)
Engine also runs great without problems.

[norcal616]

54 minutes ago, Raptor MT-07 said:

Thank you for your reply,
I can't verify that but I will look into it 
The MT-07 cockpit doesn't display any fault codes however the ABS light is on ( obviously because there is no ABS)
Engine also runs great without problems.

If light is on, it's thinking one or more of the wheels are not moving the same speed as the others within it's limit so it's triggered... 

Might need to use a non ABS ECU unit and double check the wire colors at the ECU pins to see if any difference in wiring harness between ABS and non ABS... 

[geophb]

The abs light will stay on until like 6 mph or something, then go off if all is good.  You would have to make sure everything is exactly like the donor bike. ie Both wheel sensor hooked up/functioning, gear indicator?, brake switches, abs pump plugged in and functioning etc. It runs a self check every time switch is turned on and anything out of the ordinary with throw a light just like a car.

No traction control on MT07. 

You could pull gauge apart and desolder the light. Probably best option would be non abs computer and harness (idk if harness is compatible).  I would attempt to just plug in non abs ecu into existing harness to see if it works but thats me.

[Raptor MT-07]

3 minutes ago, geophb said:

The abs light will stay on until like 6 mph or something, then go off if all is good.  You would have to make sure everything is exactly like the donor bike. ie Both wheel sensor hooked up/functioning, gear indicator?, brake switches, abs pump plugged in and functioning etc. It runs a self check every time switch is turned on and anything out of the ordinary with throw a light just like a car.

No traction control on MT07. 

You could pull gauge apart and desolder the light. Probably best option would be non abs computer and harness (idk if harness is compatible).  I would attempt to just plug in non abs ecu into existing harness to see if it works but thats me.

Al the ABS related stuff is out of the harness because I can't use is on an ATV 
Tbh I don't care about the ABS light being on and will be desolderd in the near future but there should be a way to get the speedo working or am I wrong?
Doesn't a Power Commander need a speed signal? 
Non ABS wiring looms/ECU's etc are hard to come by here in Holland because all the bikes delivered here are with ABS.
I will look around for one tho, maybe on ebay

[norcal616]

The problem you have may be in the ECU coding.. I just looked up for USA bikes and the ABS and non ABS bikes have 2 different ECU part numbers... 

This is an interesting project- 1st one I have seen on the forum--

IIRC a few college classes used the CP2 motor but used a standalone ECU to have full control of it...

[geophb]

I realize all the abs stuff is off, was just saying thats why your light is on.

The speed sensor is down by the starter and should be separate of the abs. As you probably already know, you speed readout will be wack unless your overall combined ratio of your raptors tire dia and sprockets matches the MT.

Don't know much about power commander but I doubt it need speed sensor, Rpm signal obviously though, gear position maybe? (Flashing is better IMO but completely different topic, no reason to derail. )

Side note: I bet that thing is a totally wicked machine. 

[Raptor MT-07]

Side question:
If I change the ECU should I also change the Lock & Key because of the immobiiser?
Or can I just change the Ecu and keep my lock & Key?
Big thanks to all of you for helping me BTW!!!

[geophb]

Man stuff over there is all messed up!! JK

If you get an ecu without an immobilizer, just use ignition lock & keys you got because it won't care, could even use toggle switches/hot wire it.  And as u kno an immobilizer ecu needs matching keys or a reprogram.  But im willing to bet that all immobilizer ecu are abs equipped on the MT.

[Raptor MT-07]

Hey everybody!

A little update on the project:                      I’ve bought an ECU, main wiring harness and sub harness from a salvaged non abs bike. And I have also bought a immobiliser emulator. When the starter is cranking the display does’nt show any codes but the speed starts to go up like I’m accelerating. However when I kick it in to gear it still does’nt display the speed. Does anybody have an idea as to how I can verify that my speed sensor is’nt broken? 

[geophb]

I'm assuming all your wiring is correct. Did you use Yamaha 1WS-83755-00-00 speed sensor?  If so I think that is just a standard hall effect sensor, they either work or they dont, since its new sensor im betting it is good.  There should be some tests you could do for the sensor if you google "hall effect sensor testing" if you want.

After some research in the parts diagram, ABS bikes in the US dont even have that sensor, its just a plug.  Also, I noticed the cluster is different too for abs and non abs. Yikes yamaha went all out.  I guess abs bikes use the abs sensors to display the speed? If thats the case then gearing wont change the speed read out, oops unrelated. wow. coffee.

So you have a Non-ABS ECU, and Unmodified non-abs wiring harness too?  The only thing left would be the display cluster. Part number 2RC-83500-00-00 is for a nonabs.  Used are about $200 and new is $230??? 

[sorkyah]

1 hour ago, Raptor MT-07 said:

Hey everybody!

A little update on the project:                      I’ve bought an ECU, main wiring harness and sub harness from a salvaged non abs bike. And I have also bought a immobiliser emulator. When the starter is cranking the display does’nt show any codes but the speed starts to go up like I’m accelerating. However when I kick it in to gear it still does’nt display the speed. Does anybody have an idea as to how I can verify that my speed sensor is’nt broken? 

If youre using the sensor from the raptor, the output voltage might be different, the resistances might be different, hell if might just be the wheels are spinning and giving the ECU info that it thinks it's moving when cranking causing an error 

There are several possibilities unfortunately

[Raptor MT-07]

17 minutes ago, sorkyah said:

If youre using the sensor from the raptor, the output voltage might be different, the resistances might be different, hell if might just be the wheels are spinning and giving the ECU info that it thinks it's moving when cranking causing an error 

There are several possibilities unfortunately

Thank for your reply,

However everything is from a mt-07/fz-07, engine, dash/cockpit, wiring harnesses etc. So everything is from a mt-07. 

 

[Raptor MT-07]

29 minutes ago, geophb said:

I'm assuming all your wiring is correct. Did you use Yamaha 1WS-83755-00-00 speed sensor?  If so I think that is just a standard hall effect sensor, they either work or they dont, since its new sensor im betting it is good.  There should be some tests you could do for the sensor if you google "hall effect sensor testing" if you want.

After some research in the parts diagram, ABS bikes in the US dont even have that sensor, its just a plug.  Also, I noticed the cluster is different too for abs and non abs. Yikes yamaha went all out.  I guess abs bikes use the abs sensors to display the speed? If thats the case then gearing wont change the speed read out, oops unrelated. wow. coffee.

So you have a Non-ABS ECU, and Unmodified non-abs wiring harness too?  The only thing left would be the display cluster. Part number 2RC-83500-00-00 is for a nonabs.  Used are about $200 and new is $230??? 

Geophb yes sir you are correct. But is the display the one that’s making things difficult for me? I assumed that the dash was used for both abs and non abs bikes

[geophb]

2 minutes ago, Raptor MT-07 said:

Geophb yes sir you are correct. But is the display the one that’s making things difficult for me? I assumed that the dash was used for both abs and non abs bikes

I also assumed that.  I just noticed that yamaha shows 2RC-83500-20-00 as the dash part number for the abs bike, and that there isnt a speed sensor other than the abs wheel sensors.  That has to be the problem, showing vehicle speed while cranking doesnt make sense, abs dash must be using random/incorrect data from the non-abs ecu. The dash is the only thing left thats abs related.

Hopefully you can sell the abs parts and recoup some cost. 

Oh and from what calculated with 20 inch tires on that quad and 35t sprocket your speed would be within 1-2%,  36t only about 4%!!

[DewMan]

32 minutes ago, Raptor MT-07 said:

Geophb yes sir you are correct. But is the display the one that’s making things difficult for me? I assumed that the dash was used for both abs and non abs bikes

The dash, I believe, is different on an ABS model since it does have an additional ABS light?

Whether the difference is only the additional circuit for the ABS light, I couldn't say.

[Raptor MT-07]

Geophb & DewMan,

Thanks for the help guys! Can anyone confirm that the dash mentioned bij Geophb (2RC-83500-20-00) can display km s/kmph instead of mph? I think all displays have that option but I’d rather be sure. There is a display available in pennsylvania so I might buy it but it’s an expensive gamble. Does anybody know the difference between the two displays other than the ABS light/circuit?

[DewMan]

37 minutes ago, Raptor MT-07 said:

Geophb & DewMan,

Thanks for the help guys! Can anyone confirm that the dash mentioned bij Geophb (2RC-83500-20-00) can display km s/kmph instead of mph? I think all displays have that option but I’d rather be sure. There is a display available in pennsylvania so I might buy it but it’s an expensive gamble. Does anybody know the difference between the two displays other than the ABS light/circuit?

FYI: US model dash, with or without ABS,  can be converted to either MPH or KPH.

[Raptor MT-07]

5 minutes ago, DewMan said:

FYI: US model dash, with or without ABS,  can be converted to either MPH or KPH.

That`s what I thought, thank you DewMan.

[sorkyah]

23 hours ago, DewMan said:

FYI: US model dash, with or without ABS,  can be converted to either MPH or KPH.

it can?

[DewMan]

2 hours ago, sorkyah said:

it can?

According to my owners manual 

 

 

[Raptor MT-07]

Small update:

I’ve bought a non abs display from the USA and it should be here in Holland between the 8th and 17th of january so I can’t wait to see if this fixes the issue. Fingers crossed! I’ll update when it’s here.

[Raptor MT-07]

Hey everyone!

The new dash has been delivered and installed but the *#$^&$* thing still does'nt show the speed.
Every electrical component has been swapped to non-abs ( ecu,  wire harness, injector harness, new oem speed sensor and the cluster/dash )
I`m starting to think that the (new) speed sensor might be dead.
Can someone tell me how to test the sensor?
According to the manual it should read 0.6v to 4.8v with the positive probe on the white/yellow wire and the negative probe on the black/blue wire.
I assume this should be tested with the running in gear on a stand?
I`m not good with this sort if electrical issues so any help would ( again ) be very appreciated.
BTW when the bike cranks the speed on the display increases like before, but when running it does`nt do anything.

[geophb]

Im assuming it is a basic 3 wire hall effect sensor.  Within the sensor plug there should be a 5v reference voltage from the ecu, as well as a ground, then the signal wire switches from 0-5v as the "reluctor ring" spins, based on the notches, (most likely just one of the gears or maybe shaft spine in the transmission).

With bike running and wheel spinning really slow (so multi meter has time to react), one of the wires should switch between 0-5v. If not, make sure you have the 5v reference signal and ground in the plug, if you have those and it still doesnt switch from 0-5 then the sensor is bad.  If you can see in the hole, make sure there is even a reluctor ring looking thing in there that it can read, I doubt they would change the transmission.  Google reluctor ring for reference. 

With that said, the fact that the speed still increases while cranking leads me to believe that something is not wired correctly. My guess is missing a ground somewhere because I assume you swapped it all over and left everything plugnplay.  And if anything was modified wiring wise anywhere double check that too.