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geophb

Dynojet Powervision 3

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geophb

Hi all, I have been lurking on the forums a while doing research on the best tuning solution for the fz07/mt07/xsr700.  I am no expert by any means but here is what I gathered.  Side note: I don't think this has been covered due to the PowerVision3 being so new.  

First post so be easy on me. Open to future posting tips.

3 Main options:

Power Vision 3 - Simply plugs into diagnostic port under rear seat.

FTEcu - Few hard pinout connections to ecu.

Power Commander V - Lots of wires going all over. :)

This is mainly a comparison between FTecu and the new Power Vision 3, both flash your ecu but the PV3 (Powervision 3) plugs into the diagnostic port.  A power commander is also an option but I feel is inferior due to limited options, and "tricks"/modifies the ecu inputs and outputs to gain fueling and spark adjustments.

THIS IS NOT A BASH ON ANY OF THE ABOVE OPTIONS.  If what you have is working then by all means stick with it.

I have been considering going with FTecu but have recently bought the PowerVision 3, with the hopes of accessing the closed loop functions.

Conclusion: The Ftecu software is unbelievably lacking compared to the Power Vision 3 (shown below).  The only edge that FTecu has is the availability of plug-n-play maps from named vendors.  The PV3 is too new yet and has a limited base tune database.

796530524_Screenshot(2).thumb.png.f1aee8f6bb9924c2a121ff7c5ecc7683.png

This is screenshot of the FTecu software, as many have already seen.

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375110916_Screenshot(3).thumb.png.6ec41bfccbcf96afe594a0baf9a13563.png1031932635_Screenshot(4).thumb.png.caefc366edf2454160d572b49a185377.png

These are a couple screen shots of the Dynojet Powervision CX software, used to create maps for the PV3

Took me a few hours to understand what is all happening here.

Quick tips:  The Alpha N is basically tps vs rpm fueling.  The speed density is Map vs rpm fueling.  The assortment of bias tables are similar to the FTecu bias tables

As you can see the PV3 is capable of editing the closed loop functions and completely disabling it by changing the enable limits to a point that would never be seen by the engine (i.e. 25,000 rpm)

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1873063337_Screenshot(5).thumb.png.3dc18e0cfc8432007e8c03778f8bdac4.png

This is a screen shot of the Alpha N and Speed density biasing.  From what I have gathered the ECU calculates fuel by blending alpha n and the speed density for TPS positions between 10%-47%.  Above 47% throttle (TPS>47) fuel is straight off the Alpha N table.  Below 10% throttle, fuel is straight of the speed density tables. 

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1609992406_Screenshot(6).thumb.png.43ff43765994c5ab3fa2e997576ad84c.png

Shown in this screen shot is the decel fuel cut.  It shows that decel fuel cut only occurs above 4000 rpm, I have also felt this while coming to a stop while riding.

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Apologies for long post. 

So far, I have created a custom file for my bike with stock fuel and stock spark but: adjusted fan temps, removed fuel cut, disabled adaptive learning (as a test), changed rpm soft/hard limits to be the same.  I am mainly chasing down my choppy throttle and extreme engine braking.  Everything flashed to my bike with no issues.  Oops forgot to mention this is a 2019 MT-07.

I have stock exhaust on by bike at the moment and have not been able to test ride due to the rain, so further updates will be necessary.

Let me know what you all think!  I feel like I am the only one with the Power Vision 3.

 

Edited by geophb
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stickshift

Thanks for the info and screen shots.

Are the ‘adaptive learning’ settings intended for a wide band O2 sensor? Or is it used for the stock closed loop function?

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geophb

The adaptive learning is for the stock closed loop.  They don't have a wide band o2 active tune function like FTecu.  But they do have a wide band setup that will hook up to the PV3 for data log purposes. So if you run a data log it will show the wide band reading along side the factory sensors in the data log. I personally don't have this.

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pwr2wh8

i actually own ftecu and pv3. i got both because i was curious which would excel. as of now, i'm running ftecu. i did run pv3 for a little bit, but as mentioned above, it's very new with little to no documentation. i'm currently back on ftecu only because i had a tune for it. i would still like to give pv3 a more thorough evaluation so i will follow this thread. from my time using the pv3 software, as mentioned, it offers more tuning options over ftecu.

Edited by pwr2wh8

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stickshift

The PV3 does appear to have lots of parameters that can be adjusted; the single biggest benefit in my opinion is that it connects via the diagnostic port. 

It looks to achieve - slightly more or slightly less - what the other tuning options can do for performance in the real world.

Edited by stickshift

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geophb

Update:

So I tested the first tune last night. Stock parameters except removed decel fuel cut and disabled adaptive learning.  Didn't notice a huge difference, slightly less engine braking above 4000 (details in 1st post) also haven't rode it in a few days so who knows.  NOTE: Even with adaptive learning disabled the "eco" light still popped up.  Long story short, after confirming the adaptive learning was truly disabled I am convinced the "eco" light means nothing other than your going easy on it. 

Tune 2: After I got back, I got bored and it was nice out, decided to pull the snorkel out of the intake.  Intake noise is louder than my stock exhaust now 🤣.  In addition, just for kicks I added 2% fuel to both the alpha N and speed density (the entire map and both cyl 1/2).  Results: Actually it seemed to run better.  I could smell the catalytic converter working a little harder when rolled up to stoplights, so it probably slightly too much fuel.

Tune 3: I decided to put the speed density back to stock but left the 2% added fuel on the alpha N.  This has less of an effect on fuel at lower speed due the map biasing percentages outlined above.  Have not tested yet.

I plan to leave the spark timing stock because 87 octane is cheap and fresh. Also, premium is a waste on single nozzle stations because you get 1.5 gallon of residual whatever the last person pumped (most likely regular).

So far everything is working out great. 

I NEED an exhaust bad. I can't hear what the motor is doing since I ride with ear plugs. Probably need a wide band setup also, to really see whats happening.

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pwr2wh8

for the alpha n and speed density, you decrease to add fuel as noted in the app...right? also, are you considering a whole number change as a full percent change?

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geophb

You increase to add fuel within the Alpha N and speed density BASE tables under the AIRFLOW tab.  I think your talking about the afr factor bias tables that say "decrease to add fuel".  I don't plan on messing with those tables yet.

Adding 2% fuel means multiplying current cell x 1.02.  Example: 53.12 in random cell. adding 2% is 54.18. 

You have to check the % box, other wise it will just add the entered value. Or enter 1.02 and use the multiply button.

I have notice rounding anomalies while editing.

948931635_Screenshot(7).png.3561362a075407bb67b46e09a7fd3dd3.png

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stickshift
9 hours ago, geophb said:

Even with adaptive learning disabled the "eco" light still popped up.  Long story short, after confirming the adaptive learning was truly disabled I am convinced the "eco" light means nothing other than your going easy on it. 

My understanding is that if you disable ‘adaptive learning’ the closed loop fuelling function is indeed operating (which is why you’re still seeing ‘eco’ on the dash) - it’s just not altering fuel metering from that which is already set in the ecu for closed loop.

There are some tuners on this forum who are quite well versed in the complexities of the eco mode on this bike, hopefully they’ll be along soon to enlighten us!

Edit: There is some further info about eco mode and the fuelling offset the ecu can apply on page 2 of this thread:

 

Edited by stickshift

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pwr2wh8
6 hours ago, geophb said:

You increase to add fuel within the Alpha N and speed density BASE tables under the AIRFLOW tab.  I think your talking about the afr factor bias tables that say "decrease to add fuel".  I don't plan on messing with those tables yet.

Adding 2% fuel means multiplying current cell x 1.02.  Example: 53.12 in random cell. adding 2% is 54.18. 

You have to check the % box, other wise it will just add the entered value. Or enter 1.02 and use the multiply button.

I have notice rounding anomalies while editing.

how did i miss the % box. that makes all the difference now. i knew the existing were base, just wasn't sure how much i was changing. thanks!

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geophb
1 hour ago, stickshift said:

My understanding is that if you disable ‘adaptive learning’ the closed loop fuelling function is indeed operating (which is why you’re still seeing ‘eco’ on the dash) - it’s just not altering fuel metering from that which is already set in the ecu for closed loop.

There are some tuners on this forum who are quite well versed in the complexities of the eco mode on this bike, hopefully they’ll be along soon to enlighten us!

Yes I have read this thread top to bottom.  It is believed that the eco mode has an afr offset separate of the closed loop within the ecu.  I highly doubt this is the case, as this would lead to a sick amount of surge going in and out of eco mode.

Catfish tested setting bias map in FTecu to zero and it ran bad at part throttle, I believe this is due to the map bias within FTecu not being the complete bias settings, shown below. 

1877181105_Screenshot(8).thumb.png.c6c26f4a20669dd706cf0827af530f11.png

Shown here is the biasing percentage calculations.  The bias table Catfish changed in FTecu software is only the "Afr Factor Alpha N" in the menu above and is identical between both software. 

So I thought maybe the eco light is just showing that the bike is running partially off speed density, this is not the case either. I just tested disabling bias (forcing to run only alpha N) by setting above table to 2.3 as shown, note: any value entered here higher than 2.3 up to about 47 returns a value of 2.3.  Result: A - Running the bike on alpha n (tps vs rpm) only makes it run like complete garbage and wouldn't even idle. B - Managed to ride it around block and eco mode still pops up.  Unless there is some voodoo magic going on, I think there is a separate function within the ecu to serve no purpose other than to just light up that eco mode indicator.

EDIT: Quick note, closed loop was disabled and never turned on as I can view this monitor while riding via the PV3.

Edited by geophb
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