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Beemer

Best Beginners Bike

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Beemer

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anything he says other than I agree that learning to ride off-road can be beneficial and safer to learn on.

 

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Beemer

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timjh

I would argue that the FZ-07 (with 2WDW flash) really is a best beginner's bike because it's manageable enough for a newbie but good enough it won't soon be traded for something better.

Sure, he'll learn better on dirt IF he is willing to spend the time on dirt.  That's a steep commitment for a newbie.

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FZ07R WaNaB
4 minutes ago, timjh said:

I would argue that the FZ-07 (with 2WDW flash) really is a best beginner's bike

I'm glad you added "(with 2WDW flash)", but I still totally disagree with the idea of the FZ/MT-07 as a beginner bike.

Without the flash, the FZ is a wreck waiting to happen for a newbie as the mapping makes the acceleration too spastic and the engine braking can be deadly for a new rider. I should clarify that I'm looking at the term "newbie" as someone who doesn't know how to ride a motorcycle. Even with the flash, the FZ is just too torquey for a newbie.

That leads me to the bike that I think is a great beginner bike (other than a dual-sport), which is a Honda 250 Nighthawk. They go used all day long for $1500-$2000. The fact that many Motorcycle Safety Foundation's beginner courses have used them for years is their ultimate validation as one of the best beginner bikes. The best news is that when you are ready to go to a bigger bike, you will be able to sell it for what you bought it for.

I've read on the forum from various folks that the FZ was their first bike and it went OK, but they never tell their back history. If you rode dirt bike as a kid, and then years later, you bought your first street bike, then you are not a newbie IMHO. Learning how to safely ride on the road is bad enough let alone learning how to deal with the power of the FZ. Speaking of which, as long as I am preaching, if you are a true newbie, or a person who hasn't ridden on the street for a long time, I would strongly suggest take a riders course. It will cost you some money, but then how much is your life worth???

 

The Best Learner.jpg

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RIP
33 minutes ago, FZ07R WaNaB said:

but I still totally disagree with the idea of the FZ/MT-07 as a beginner bike.

Without the flash, the FZ is a wreck waiting to happen for a newbie as the mapping makes the acceleration too spastic and the engine braking can be deadly for a new rider. I should clarify that I'm looking at the term "newbie" as someone who doesn't know how to ride a motorcycle. Even with the flash, the FZ is just too torquey for a newbie

^^^ 100% this

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kylerhsm

I'd never recommend an MT07 to a new rider. The bike lifts the front wheel on throttle and has aggressive torque and engine braking. You'd spend too much time trying to control the engine when you should be focussing on corner and braking technique.

 

You skill up a lot faster learning to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow.

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Beemer

I didn't want to be the first to say it but I'm in agreement that the FZ-07 is a bit much for 'most' beginners. You always have to consider that some people are going to be faster learners and have more confidence than other riders. I had a lady in my MSF course that acted very meek and intimidated just by a little 250 Suzuki and she kept dumping the clutch and falling over. I've seen others the same way and I could just imagine how fast an FZ would've launched and got away from them. It was just a couple days ago one of our forum members said that happened to him with his FZ and it ran into a wall. Remember? Bottom line, any bike that can do 0-60 super car speeds (3.4 sec.) is definitely not for beginners. When they've learned how to work the throttle and clutch with much less powerful bikes that are tame by comparison then maybe it's ok for them to saddle up on the beast.

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Beemer

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adamo
9 hours ago, kylerhsm said:

I'd never recommend an MT07 to a new rider. The bike lifts the front wheel on throttle and has aggressive torque and engine braking. You'd spend too much time trying to control the engine when you should be focussing on corner and braking technique.

 

You skill up a lot faster learning to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow.

Man, I haven't lifted front will up in my 6k miles and two years of riding, if you get 10 hours of riding in riding school(requirement where I'm from and 24+ years) there is no reason why not to get mt07 as a first bike.  If somebody is going to WOT right from the parking lot then they will wreck the mt03 or r3 the same way as mt07.

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scat2me

This was my first bike...

Big wheel.jpg

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robbo10

A snailcam somewhere in the line would be a help to learners. There was a lot of talk of that on an FZ-09 forum in its early days.


Just do it! 

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mt7fan

I started riding MC 3y ago with 0km before with 60 years. Here in Germany you have to make a riding and theoretical test to get the licence. My bike in the school was the Suzuki Gladius. I needed 30 hours face to face instruction to feel me ready for the test. After that mt07 was easy.

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gregjet
Posted (edited)

I completely agree with the above about a non flashed 07 as being totally unsuitable as a beginners bike.

A comment that "f somebody is going to WOT right from the parking lot..." is the whole missed point. The 07 chucks wheelies just opening the throttle a reasonable amount because the fuelling is erratic and goes from no fuel to a big squirt in stock map. Check out the original video tests on the 07, and experienced riders are having the front wheel clawing upwards all the time. That is fine for an experienced rider to control but not a beginner.

Add the soggy suspension slopping all over the place and you have a bike that a beginner will  ( literally) feel all at sea with. ( and will cause split infinitives).

THE best beginners bike I have ever seen , I think isn't available in the US ( correct me). It is no longer available in Australia either, so you have to go seacond hand. It is the beautiful little VTR 250 Honda. Excellant torque for a 250. VERY light. Easy to resuspend. Brilliant fuel economy. Good braking. Great geometry. Intermediate riding position. The carb version is excellent , the EFI one better.

I raced a carbed version in 250 prod. for a year and although seriously down on power on the CBR250RR 4cyls it was easier to chuck around on the tight track and had literally twice the torque to come out of corners. Forget 2 up riding though.

The bike is modelled on Ducati Vtwin stressed engine design and has not actual frame . Swingarm comes off the rear on the motor. Simple single pivot rear suspension so can get a little twitchy in lumpy corners with the stock shock, but the bike is so light, it is easy to control.

In my opinion NO motorcycle comes close as a beginner bike. 100kph/60mph is no effort.

They also have insane reliability. Seen plenty with over 100000 km on them still cruising along.

After that another Honda ( sorry yammy fans). The CBr/f/x 500 is next best. A bit heavy, but incredible balance. NO faults  ( except stock suspension and we are in no position to criticize) and can quite easily tour across a continent. So smooth it is incredible for a twin.

Edited by gregjet
grammar
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Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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mt7fan

Looks like a small mt07 😊

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robbo10

On the Honda theme, my Rebel 500 - or perhaps with the 300 engine - would make a fair starter bike: low seat, not over heavy, fair suspension. Throttle unintimidating. 

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Just do it! 

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Beemer
17 hours ago, gregjet said:

I completely agree with the above about a non flashed 07 as being totally unsuitable as a beginners bike.

A comment that "f somebody is going to WOT right from the parking lot..." is the whole missed point. The 07 chucks wheelies just opening the throttle a reasonable amount because the fuelling is erratic and goes from no fuel to a big squirt in stock map. Check out the original video tests on the 07, and experienced riders are having the front wheel clawing upwards all the time. That is fine for an experienced rider to control but not a beginner.

Add the soggy suspension slopping all over the place and you have a bike that a beginner will  ( literally) feel all at sea with. ( and will cause split infinitives).

THE best beginners bike I have ever seen , I think isn't available in the US ( correct me). It is no longer available in Australia either, so you have to go seacond hand. It is the beautiful little VTR 250 Honda. Excellant torque for a 250. VERY light. Easy to resuspend. Brilliant fuel economy. Good braking. Great geometry. Intermediate riding position. The carb version is excellent , the EFI one better.

I raced a carbed version in 250 prod. for a year and although seriously down on power on the CBR250RR 4cyls it was easier to chuck around on the tight track and had literally twice the torque to come out of corners. Forget 2 up riding though.

The bike is modelled on Ducati Vtwin stressed engine design and has not actual frame . Swingarm comes off the rear on the motor. Simple single pivot rear suspension so can get a little twitchy in lumpy corners with the stock shock, but the bike is so light, it is easy to control.

In my opinion NO motorcycle comes close as a beginner bike. 100kph/60mph is no effort.

They also have insane reliability. Seen plenty with over 100000 km on them still cruising along.

After that another Honda ( sorry yammy fans). The CBr/f/x 500 is next best. A bit heavy, but incredible balance. NO faults  ( except stock suspension and we are in no position to criticize) and can quite easily tour across a continent. So smooth it is incredible for a twin.

I just got done looking at all of Hondas for the U.S. and the VTR250 isn't in the line up. I trust what you say is true, from what you've described it may actually be "The Best" and I wish it were over here for us yanks to enjoy. (Looks kinda like a small version of a Suzuki SV 650 and they were very popular, still are with some. Since there are no official judges on this subject to put the question to rest once and for all I'm thinking now that maybe the title to this thread should be "The Best Type of Bike For Beginners That Aren't Taking a Riding Course." There may be one ultimate beginners bike but I think that if a bike is weighing in at around 325 lbs. or less, is nimble, handles well enough for "average beginner riding" then the bike is most likely going to be fine for a beginner and leave it at that. It's not like a beginner needs the very best to learn on anyway so in light of that all this debate over it is a little bit much. Just my "one cup of coffee so far this morning" opinion. Maybe I'll feel different about that after my 2nd or 3rd cup, ha!


Beemer

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gregjet

Handles much better than an sv650, except in bumpy corners.  Better shock and it is way better. Same size stantions on a smaller lighter bike so the front is incredibly stiff torsionally. Single disc is a very little twisty under very hard braking though, but you have to be picky to notice.

Because the seat height is low and the top triple clamp is high you can put clip ons on that don't end up with the bar position lower than the seat as well, and they respond to triple clamps well. If I could justify having another bike in the stable, this would be it. Complete joy to ride even for an experienced rider.

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Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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scat2me
On 8/22/2019 at 6:07 AM, scat2me said:

This was my first bike...

Big wheel.jpg

My second bike

Pea Picker.jpg

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scat2me

My third bike

Mo Ped (2).jpg

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scat2me

Fourth Bike

1970-Honda-Mini.jpg

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FZ07R WaNaB

My first street-legal bike...

 

RR3.jpg

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scat2me

Fifth Bike... not the original..  what a great bike. I Learned the value of a cup on this bike...

Yamaha 90.jpg

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Beemer
18 hours ago, scat2me said:

Fifth Bike... not the original..  what a great bike. I Learned the value of a cup on this bike...

Yamaha 90.jpg

Looks a lot like my first motorcycle, a DT100.

 

thRUL5HP70.jpg


Beemer

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scat2me

What great bikes. I'll bet if Yamaha were to reintroduce them they would sell really well.  The new bikes just don't have the same appeal.

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kylerhsm
On 8/24/2019 at 6:33 AM, gregjet said:

THE best beginners bike I have ever seen , I think isn't available in the US ( correct me). It is no longer available in Australia either, so you have to go seacond hand. It is the beautiful little VTR 250 Honda. Excellant torque for a 250. VERY light. Easy to resuspend. Brilliant fuel economy. Good braking. Great geometry. Intermediate riding position. The carb version is excellent , the EFI one better.

Totally agree with this. I've owned a few VTR250's and they're a ripper of a little bike.

But, yes there's a big BUT. Gregjet, have you ever owned a Spada? I'm sorry but if there's one bike that bests the VTR250 it's its predecessor, the 1988-1989 VT250 Spada. Alloy frame, 40hp, 6-speed. Only produced for two years because they overengineered the sh*t out of it and couldn't sell them for a profit. An absolute weapon (for a 250) and still better than anything you can get in the 250cc class to this day.

spada.jpg

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Beemer
On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 3:04 PM, FZ07R WaNaB said:

My first street-legal bike...

 

RR3.jpg

That's the smallest/easiest to learn on. Rupp wins! (who knew?! lol)

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Beemer

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phyciocc

Do Vespas count?image.png.bc1e22778687000f0fa4398e5c005ea5.png

I drove one between the end of high school and beginning college.  After, it was a bit faster one.

Moto Morini 3 1/2 image.png.0f8a2b117f46a91669dfbbbec94cb7ee.png

25 years later, now in the US of A, I went trough two cruisers (Vulcan 800a and Yamaha 1300 Tourer) and a maxi-scooter (Burgman 650).  All of them over 600 lb.  The FZ-07 I have now is a tiny thing, by comparison. But learning on the Vespa made sure that I did not kill myself with the FZ-07 (yet :) ).

Marco

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