Best Beginners Bike

[Beemer]

11 hours ago, phyciocc said:

Do Vespas count?

I drove one between the end of high school and beginning college.  After, it was a bit faster one.

Moto Morini 3 1/2 

25 years later, now in the US of A, I went trough two cruisers (Vulcan 800a and Yamaha 1300 Tourer) and a maxi-scooter (Burgman 650).  All of them over 600 lb.  The FZ-07 I have now is a tiny thing, by comparison. But learning on the Vespa made sure that I did not kill myself with the FZ-07 (yet  ).

Marco

No, Vespa's don't count, you automatically lose your man card, go directly to jail.  I kid, I don't think they count because you don't have to clutch with one. They're just sooooo …. 'not motorcycle' for various reasons. That little Moto Morini qualifies and is kinda cool with it's twin pipes. I'm curious as to what the 3 1/2 stands for.

[phyciocc]

 

MY vespa had a clutch.  4 gears at the left hand.  You could blip the throttle on downshifts as well , none of these automatic things in 1977

3 1/2  stands for 350 CC.

 

Marco

[Beemer]

57 minutes ago, phyciocc said:

 

MY vespa had a clutch.  4 gears at the left hand.  You could blip the throttle on downshifts as well , none of these automatic things in 1977

3 1/2  stands for 350 CC.

 

Marco

Still, the fact remains that it's a scooter, not a motorcycle. Got any specs on that Moto Morini? You mentioned it a long time ago but I don't recall you saying what the specs were. 

[phyciocc]

The Moto Morini 3 1/2 was produced in Italy, under a few guises, for many years.  Got mine a few years ago (approx 43 )

Here's the run down (I found these on line because , frankly, I don't remember.  Also, back then,specs  were somewhat...imaginative)

Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport
Claimed power: 39hp @ 8,500rpm (claimed)
Top speed: 100mph (claimed)
Engine type: 344cc, air-cooled 72-degree V-twin
Transmission: Six-speed
Weight (full): 145kg (320lb)
MPG: 60mpg (claimed)

Did not keep it long (schools was keeping me busy).  I graduated from college, served in the army for 1 year (Italy at the time had mandatory draft), won a fellowships to further study in the US and arrived here in 1985,  met girl, got married etc. etc. When I turned 50, I went back to bikes...

 

 

[phyciocc]

Oh, I forgot.  No electric starter.  Kick start all the way

[robbo10]

I am beginning to find scooters attractive. And that Honda C125....so lovely! What's happening to me?!

[Grant31781]

Scooters were made for women so they didn't have to spread there legs to ride. Plus the way you are seated on one resembles sitting on the toilet.

 

 

[gregjet]

kylershm,

I agree that the Spada motor was better. I had both. The VTR250 made some production cuts to save a few pence that were a pain and limited the rpm. The valve springs on the spada were double , the VTR single springs. Then they limited the Spada's 14000rpm to 11500 on the VTR. Not knowing this little hidden gem, I had the ECU on the VTR delimited to 13000 and began dropping valves into the front piston, when they started bouncing.

The Spada also had a proper linkage rear suspension that worked better under braking and bumpy corners. The design was nicked straight from their NSR250's. Shock was crap , but the linkage design excellant.

But overall the VTR handled better and was cammed for more lower end torque. Punch out of corners was much better. When combined with the insanely well designed and executed chassis design, the swingarm mounted on the back of the motor ( the motor castings were not interchangeable) and the 2mm bigger fork legs and stiffer triple clamps , the VTR was rock solid in a straight line and could carry speed much better through corners. Same forks EXACTLY as the NSR. Less fork twist from the single front disc as well partially because the disc was mounted closer to the middle of the wheel.

For a beginner, the VTR's friendly low end torque and rock solid feel was a perfect combo.

BTW I put a CR85 motor into a spada frame and made a carbon rear subframe for the bucket class racing.

 

Below. What happens when you delimit a VTR250 and valvebounce it. The spring collets fall out of the upside down front exhaust valve and the piston and valve have intercourse. That pic is a PISTON btw.

Next 2 pics a cr85motor in a Spada frame with a side order of carbon subframe

[coolcoleslick]

I think the fz-07 is a great beginner bike. its light enough you wont feel intimidated. you are able to take it easy but go fast at the same time. It will take you a while to get bored of it.

[Beemer]

On 8/27/2019 at 3:29 PM, Grant31781 said:

Scooters were made for women so they didn't have to spread there legs to ride. Plus the way you are seated on one resembles sitting on the toilet.

 

 

… or throw a leg over a seat while wearing a skirt and showing the world your taste in panty prints, you simply step through to retain your lady-like image.

[EZrider]

Fz07 a good beginner bike ? 

Lots of different (and valid) answers in this thread and I have to say that I agree with those who say yes... and also those who say no!

My 2 cents as someone who's FZ07 was indeed my 1st bike ever.

My background: 
I had zero previous experience (other than driving a car for the 20+ years) before getting a motorcycle license, not even motocross, nor even a scooter!  Nada...

Here in Quebec (Canada), to get a motorcycle license, here's what's mandatory:  Theoretical courses (6 hours + exam)  and practical courses consisting of 16 hours in closed environnement for basic and "advanced novice" maneuvers (emergency maneuvers) + 10 hours on the streets (for those who succeeded the first 16 hours...) + exams to get learner's license + final exam 1 year later to get full license.

I was fortunate enough to get some excellent and passionate motorcycling teachers (the only two at their own school since 1996, they've both been riding for 40+ years each, just about everywhere around the world where a motorcycle can be ridden...).  Throughout those lessons, I've ridden 3 different bikes (a custom 300, and two naked bike style, think they were Honda/Kawa 500/600ish cc's).  Short story, I learned a lot from them, both theoretically and practically speaking.  Their teachings litterally saved my butt a few times, once coming out of a curve in those mountain twisties and seeing... a live moose, on the road, my one and only lane...

In addition, when came time to practice after all those lessons, I was also fortunate enough to have friends that have been (I believe safe) riding for years (some more than 10 and 20 years) so I have quickly benefited and learned as much as possible from group riding (and having others sharing their knowledge and advices as they saw me ride along ).

So, do I think the FZ07 was too much for me as my 1st bike ?
Considering all of the above, no... Otherwise, most probably yes.  But, I also immediately "respected" this bike, as I knew and felt right away it was capable of much more than what I was capable of, especially at that time.

(Note:  Got the bike in mid-august of 2016, rode for about 2 months before canadian winter, and when I got it out next season, it was flashed with 2WDW + M4 muffler, so did run only +- 10-15 times with stock ECU, but do remember it's stock jerkiness + heavy engine breaking for not being noob friendly at all, but on the other hand, I never wheelied it accidentally.  Could it have had happened ?  With it's stock ECU, most certainly, hence why I consider the 2WDW flash mandatory if the FZ is your 1st bike.  And flashed or not, this torque monster can (relatively) easily do power wheelies in 1st and 2nd gear)

That being said, do I think Fz07 is good for any beginner ? No, especially if:
You didn't follow any motorcycling lessons and don't have at least (on average) 5+ years of experience on the road (I believe constant anticipation has to be second nature for safely riding a motorcycle).
If you also think wearing a full racing suit = you're invincible... not a good first bike for you, even if you took some lessons, cause you might need another new suit (and FZ07) sooner than later...

So many different factors to be considered, but bottom line:
If you drive with what's between your ears, it might be a good first bike for you;
If what always drives you is between your legs, it might not be a good first bike for you...

Whichever your first bike, ride safely,

Edited October 2, 2019 by EZrider

[Zephyr]

I'll throw my 2 cents in on this conversation.  The FZ07 is my first motorcycle. ever.  I did a lot of research before making the purchase and do not regret it at all.  My background is somewhat limited.  Road bicycles for 20+ years, but not for the previous decade.  Rode my friend’s dirt bikes a bit as a youngster, but not enough to consider myself "experienced".  I was set on taking all available motorcycle classes prior to getting the -07.  I choose to ride with my head, not anything else and will not ride if I don't feel like my head is in it.  All of that said, I do feel that it can be dangerous without the 2WDW flash as I stalled the bike then almost dumped the bike when pulling out of the dock yard lot when picking it up - literally my first time on the bike.  I knew about the torque reputation, but did not "know" until I almost ate asphalt.  After that and for the 100+ mile drive home the bike had my utmost respect and full attention and I did just fine getting home and thenceforth.  I have taken my time to get to know the bike before pushing its limits a bit. I still have eons of knowledge to gain and would still consider myself a newbie. 

I would recommend that all beginners look elsewhere first, but if the bike appeals to you, then go for it.  But do so with knowledge of the bike beforehand and a disposition to learn, otherwise you'll get some hard knocks both to your pride, body, and wallet.

Like @EZrider stated:

3 hours ago, EZrider said:

Many different factors to consider, but bottom line:
If you drive with what's between your ears, it might be a good first bike for you;
If what always drives you is between your legs, it might not be a good first bike for you...

Whichever your first bike, ride safely,

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Zephyr

[kylerhsm]

I don't think the point is whether a new rider can handle the bike, because that really depends on the rider. Some people will do just fine with it and some people might get themselves into trouble. I think the point is more about how effectively someone can gain riding skills by having this as their first bike. This bike throws a lot variables in all at once, and makes it harder to hone your skills quickly. A new rider is having to deal with a lot all at once, like being very precise with the clutch, very careful with the throttle, and watching their balance, all the while learning how to start, stop and stear the thing as well.

If you throw a new rider on something like a VTR250 they don't have to focus on precice clutchwork, careful throttle control or balancing the thing at a stop/stop because this bike does all of these things with so much more ease than an MT07. The new rider can therefore put much more focus in learning how to corner, brake and manoeuvre, and then once they have these skills they can move onto the additional skills required to control a torque monster wheelie machine with strong engine braking and a tendancy to lift the front wheel.

Its quicker to focus on one set of skills, then move to the next as opposed to trying to learn everything all at once. You'll learn to ride faster and better by starting on a smaller bike, and then moving up to an MT07.

[norcal616]

Best set of skills to learn comes from staying active in dirt biking... Getting comfortable with traction breaking at the wheels, use the hand/foot controls (heavy rear brake use at slow speeds to keep front end from tipping over vs applying road course based riding habits that are built around a crotch rocket)... You also are forced to use multiple seating locations (riding up on the gas cap, using your legs/thighs to push/control the bike gas tank when cornering, etc) ... 

 

[9JUAN8]

The FZ is my 2nd bike, my first was a Ninja 650r that I thought was a very comfortable first bike. Plenty of power to keep up on the highway and the parallel twin sounds good to boot.

[klx678]

On 8/27/2019 at 3:29 PM, Grant31781 said:

Scooters were made for women so they didn't have to spread there legs to ride. Plus the way you are seated on one resembles sitting on the toilet.

 

 

Maybe so, but on the flat floor versions like a Zuma 125 a couple twelve packs and pizzas can take up residence between the legs on bench racing and BS evenings.   Just don't ride home after the brews.

 

 

I'm all on board with the KLX250 as the first ride.  They are easy and one can go out in a field and bop around all day long learning to clutch and shift, then sliding the rear end.  As said, hurts a lot less at 20 than 50.  

The real plus is then you go buy one of the shiny bright Yamahas with that marvelous 700 engine in it and keep the 250!   I have to totally agree, riding the 250 is like riding a mountain bike.  After riding a KLX650 for about 20 years when I got on a KLX250 that was my first though - mountain bike.   I went out and got one.   

I got the XSR700 because I hate wearing out good dual sport tires on pavement and I just liked the bike and that the 700 was used in AFT flat track racing.   Cool.   Now I personally think I have two excellent bikes to cover their territory.  The KLX is the dual sport and dirt/gravel road rides where sliding is fun and out of sight of LEOs, the XSR is "wheelie" fun... sorry.  It has just proved to be a heck of a bike as has the MT/FZ 07, the Tracer, and the Tenere 700.   

KLX250 first ride or just plain fun dual sport, and one of the Yamaha 700s.  Hard to beat.

 

For you die hard blue and white guys with long inseams, you can substitute the WR250R if you please, still fun stuff.

Edited January 13, 2020 by klx678

[peteinpa]

What I did I don't reccomend but it worked for me.

81 Yamaha QT50 that I still own. Then my dads 81 Honda 900 custom. Rode that thing around the reservoirs in Shokan NY. Great riding there.

Went in the military and bought me a new 83 Honda 650 Nighthawk. Great bike.

After that straight to 1100cc bikes of various types.