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willdawhiz

First minor crash

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willdawhiz

Hi ALL - 

I am a new rider and have gone through the MSF course to get my M1 endorsement. I bought a used 2015 FZ07 at a decent price with around 6k miles. I did a lot of research before I bought this thinking it wouldn't be too hard for a beginner to start on, but perhaps that perception was wrong. I had about 3 rides under my belt with this bike before I ended up crashing it and doing a number on the bike as well as myself. Luckily, I was in full gear except for a butt cushion and ended up with a small road rash and a bruised left butt cheek and thigh. 

What happened was, I was practicing at night where there weren't many cars or people in the area. I had slowed down to make a slight right turn but realized I slowed too much so I decided to give it a little gas, but somehow I over-throttled and ended up popping a wheelie, so instead of breaking I had already over-throttled and I got thrown off the bike and my bike projected forward towards a wall.

My bike is still in the shop getting a damage assessment done, I think the damage is minimal and I just need to replace the entire handle bar/fork and the meter to get it functional again. I was wondering if there is anything I can do to lower the chances of over-throttling or make this bike more beginner friendly. I knew before I bought this bike that it'd be very easy to intentionally wheelie in second gear, but didn't think I would mis-throttle as bad as I did. Note I was not intentionally trying to wheelie and have no intention of wanting to wheelie ever, especially as a beginner. I have a little more fear instilled in me now, but I still want to ride this bike. I just want to find out if there is anything I can do to minimize the chances I will over throttle and inadvertently wheelie.

Any advice regarding skill or parts replacements to make it easier on a newbie is appreciated.

Thanks

 

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Grant31781

Man that sucks.  Sounds like Whiskey throttle. Not really sure how to deal with that other than gaining more experience. It takes a good twist of throttle to lift the front wheel. I suppose you could put a throttle lock on it to limit travel. 

 

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robbo10

I have done the same as you. Quite quickly no bike under me . It progressed towards a car as I watched but fortunately it fell over (was not an MT-07)

I now tend to  hold my hand and wrist quite taut around the throttle when I need to avoid over-throttling. And I open the throttle very, very carefully. I am almost opening the throttle with my arm (but not quite). As soon as the throttle opens I can then relax my hand.

I am not saying that this is correct, just that it is what I do. 

 

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Just do it! 

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sorkyah

Keep you hand on the clutch

It will be a bumpy ride, but if you even think  your losing control

Pull in the clutch about halfway, this will give you that little bit of time to regain control

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ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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Zephyr
Posted (edited)

I try to be loose on the throttle grip (really just pinch pressure of thumb to hand) and always cover my clutch when practicing and normally when riding.  It sounds like a complicated scenario since your description  plays out in my head like this:

Approaching turn, slowing down, turning in, whoops too much turn in, "oh sh*t" I'm going to fall, throttle, too much throttle, goodbye bike, hello pavement... 

So the first reaction approach would be more throttle to adjust, but likely the best approach would be just emergency brake by going upright, full clutch, steady firm brakes.

Motos are strange creatures since everything that is natural to "save yourself" is generally the thing that will send you straight into catastrophe.  More control = loose and relaxed grip, throttle gets you out of most situations better than braking, fast stopping is done by "slow" steady braking... etc

Hope your repairs don't set you back too much and that your body heals quickly.  Get back in the saddle and practice some slow maneuvers for a day or two before heading out on the roads if possible.  It should help build back any confidence lost and allow you to practice being real gentle with the controls.  Also if you haven't availed yourself of an @2wheeldynoworks ecu flash, you may want to do so now while the bike is being repaired.  I think that most would agree is it one of the best investments you can make with this machine. 

edit: I have watched MotoJitsu on youtube a bit.  He's passionate about practicing and has good info.  Not the world's greatest rider, but I like that he is a perpetual student of learning and sharing this craft.  Not sure what part of Cali you're in, but if close by he seems to have a reputation of helping all who reach out to him.

Thanks for sharing.

Edited by Zephyr
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bartman5impson
Posted (edited)

How are you gripping your throttle? Your wrist should be completely straight at 0% throttle. This will make sure that the default throttle is none. You will have to make an effort to give it gas. If your grip is like the "wrong" one in the picture, it is a lot easier to twist the throttle more than you expect to.

mc24j.JPG.e017aed3e963b1b8cfade34abbb624e2.JPG

 

Also, be progressive with the throttle. If I quickly snap the throttle in first gear at about 10mph, the bike will wheelie in the blink of an eye. It doesn't even have to be that much throttle. But by smoothly rolling on, you can give it a lot of gas without the front end coming up.

Edited by bartman5impson
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Beemer

Glad you're OK. No worries, we all make mistakes in the beginning and through till the end. It sounds like you got one of those little panic moments when it felt like it might fall over so you goosed it. When you slow down real slow you need to know how to use the friction zone on your clutch so that you don't accidentally goose it too much, it helps in making slow turns as well. Here are a couple of videos that should help out. Just remember that when you're doing low speed turns don't lean too much and think about what you're doing. Also, try not to stare at your clutch hand when doing it either, that's a bad habit, try to feel what you're doing.

 

 

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Beemer

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robbo10
Posted (edited)

Beemer reminds me that, in a turn, we should be looking at the road ahead rather than the next few feet of the (pavement) road; that helps to make the turn successful. Also, be aware that some riders (incl. me) are good at turning one way but not so good at turning the other way. 

Edited by robbo10
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Just do it! 

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cyow5
21 hours ago, willdawhiz said:

. I did a lot of research before I bought this thinking it wouldn't be too hard for a beginner to start on, but perhaps that perception was wrong. 

Here is where I think the bike is perfect - because there is the potential to screw up, then there is also the potential learn. If you had a small bike that could be flogged everywhere, you don't really learn throttle control (or self control) to the same extent. 

That being said, whisky throttle can be a problem on much smaller bikes - my first time experiencing it was on a 50cc, haha.

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willdawhiz

Thanks for all the useful tips and the positive feedback! 

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Zupatun
Posted (edited)

I would suggest taking a class on the track to improve your basic skills and confidence. Try California Suberbike School or another track based organization. Costs range from around $350/day up to over $1000 a day. However you will learn exponentially, in a controlled situation.

Roadracingworld.com has a full trackday listing in the US and Canada.

Also look here for some: 

americas-best-performance-motorcycle-rid

Want to learn to go faster? Go to class. These are America's Best Performance Motorcycle Riding Schools.

 

Matt

 

Edited by Zupatun
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NRWhiteKnight

@willdawhiz You point out you are a new rider with about "3 rides under your belt" when your accident happened. Glad you are ok. We all make mistakes, even me, as a rider with 40 years experience and a certified MSF Rider Coach. As for @Zupatuns suggestion, I would not schedule a track day just yet. Continue to practice what you learned in the rider course and improve your skill before attempting a track day. I do not suggest you practice at night, do it when there is plenty of light for you to see by. By taking the MSF course, you learned the basic skills and laid a foundation for learning and improvement of the skills (tools) to be a better, safer rider. Yes, track days are a good place to improve skills, but not for a rider with such a short time of experience.

That said, the 07 is a bike one can continue to build ones skill level on. Yes, overall, there are a few tweaks that can be made which make some things a bit less problematic, such as some tuning to reduce the snatchy throttle. @bartman5impson makes a good point about making sure your throttle wrist if flat, and not pointed upward when the throttle is closed. Also, the videos @Beemer posted can be helpful. I did not watch the second one, but the first one is good and the only thing I notes is that the rider, even while using the friction zone of his clutch, tends to use an on/off throttle technique. I would try a steady throttle input while using the friction zone, and it does not have to be much.

All in all, how you practice, where, and when, are all ultimately up to you, regardless of what anyone else, including myself might suggest. You have chosen to take part in a sport that has varying levels of risk. It's up to you to decide how much you want to take and how to minimize the risk.

Again, glad you are ok. Good luck, be safe, don't be discouraged and continue to practice.

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2018 MT-07 - Mods: Shorty Levers, Radiator Guard, Puig Sport Windscreen,Air box  Snorkel Removed.

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Beemer
23 hours ago, robbo10 said:

Beemer reminds me that, in a turn, we should be looking at the road ahead rather than the next few feet of the (pavement) road; that helps to make the turn successful. Also, be aware that some riders (incl. me) are good at turning one way but not so good at turning the other way. 

I didn't think of that and that's so very true. I forgot to say in my first post that a Dobeck EJK controller can help toward smoothing out that throttle but for a little more a flash tune from 2WDW will do the same thing but you get a whole lot more for your money. A stiff throttle probably isn't helping matters much so it's something to seriously consider. It's nice to have, regardless of whether you're new to riding or not. A lot of people in here have got either for their bikes, it's a must do, really. GL, stay frosty!

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Beemer

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Zupatun
Posted (edited)

Based on @NRWhiteKnight comments and looking back at my post, I can see his point. I think I didn't present a very clear sentiment on what my brain thought I was suggesting.

IMO a trackday school like California Superbike School...or another riding school is a way to get more experience in a controlled environment.  I do not recommend "trackdays"... @nrwhitenight is correct--for actual trackday you probably need a good more time under you belt to do proper trackdays.  However, there are various levels of instruction and classes you can get at a track, in a parking lot or on the street.  My old friened Larry Grodsky used to run "Stayin' Safe" type of on-road class--my old SV650 in my avatar was a salvage bike from one of his classes.

Some Schools may be more appropriate than others--you have to tell them where you are and what level of experience you have up front.  They will let you know if it's the right envirnment/classroom for you.  

Total Control ( www.totalcontroltraining.net) and ART (AdvancedRiderTraining.com) might have something that works for you.  

Having taken the MSF I know it gives you some skills to practice (can be done in a parking lot obviously) especially things like emergency braking/stopping, that I still practice today because on the street no one pulls in front of you at a stoplight or side-street on the track.  @nrwhitenight 's recommendation to practice some more in lower density traffic situations is a great idea as well...but taking another type of school/class is also a good way to get some hands on experience doing even more advanced skills in a parking lot or on a kart track or even a race track -- and these aren't trackdays.  

ART is a 23 hour course with 3 hours of classroom time and 20 hours of on road learning...with supervision and help from instructors...Its ~$650 for three days and catered.  It MIGHT be worth looking into something like this if experience and confidence under more controlled conditions wanted.

 Another option is MCRIDER which is a free online rider course you can do if you want to periodically gains experience and work on skills at your own pace...  mcrider.com  

It is up to you to learn and figure out what you want to do as a motorcyclist.  Your vision, your wrist, feet and body and reactions are what will keep you safe or land you in situations you don't want to be in more than the rest of the outside world early on.  Figuring out which method of learning works best for you is key to growing and enjoying motorcycling safely as possible.

I got a lot of skills as a kid on dirt-bikes--braking, shifting, clutch control, dealing with obstacles, bumps, jumps...but the skills on the street were a differnt animal...I have taken MSF and several schools and continue to take classes at Track based schools as well as trackdays because I live riding and improving.  

All the best and best of luck!

Matt in Haymarket

 

Edited by Zupatun
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willdawhiz

Thank you so much! I will get back on it and continue to practice safe riding.

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Beemer
On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 2:57 PM, cyow5 said:

Here is where I think the bike is perfect - because there is the potential to screw up, then there is also the potential learn. If you had a small bike that could be flogged everywhere, you don't really learn throttle control (or self control) to the same extent. 

That being said, whisky throttle can be a problem on much smaller bikes - my first time experiencing it was on a 50cc, haha.

I disagree. I know first hand that a smaller bike offers plenty of potential to screw up, a bigger bike only multiplies the potential to screw up. I learned to ride on a little Honda 70 in a gravel parking lot and I did a half donut the first time I released the clutch. Gobs of screw up potential! I can tell you I learned throttle/self control real quick because that scared me pretty good. If that had been a bigger, more powerful bike I can guarantee it wouldn't have went so well because I almost lost it with that little 70.

If you had a 16 year old son that's never ridden before and wanted a Yamaha VMax would you let him buy it or would you protect him from himself and tell him that's maybe a little too much bike for his skill level?


Beemer

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cyow5
3 minutes ago, Beemer said:

I disagree. I know first hand that a smaller bike offers plenty of potential to screw up, a bigger bike only multiplies the potential to screw up. I learned to ride on a little Honda 70 in a gravel parking lot and I did a half donut the first time I released the clutch. Gobs of screw up potential! I can tell you I learned throttle/self control real quick because that scared me pretty good. If that had been a bigger, more powerful bike I can guarantee it wouldn't have went so well because I almost lost it with that little 70.

Funny enough, my dad had the chance to buy a 70 when he was a kid but he rode a wheelie in front of my grandfather and killed any chance of getting permission. 

 

I'm not saying idiots won't be idiots, but I am saying that, when the stakes are higher, you tend to pay more attention. 

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Beemer
5 minutes ago, cyow5 said:

Funny enough, my dad had the chance to buy a 70 when he was a kid but he rode a wheelie in front of my grandfather and killed any chance of getting permission. 

 

I'm not saying idiots won't be idiots, but I am saying that, when the stakes are higher, you tend to pay more attention. 

Not arguing that 'maybe' (not everyone will) you pay more attention but what you're not recognizing is that if you make the same mistakes with a bigger, more powerful machine it has more potential to get you into trouble and the whole idea is to train newbs in relative safety. I think we've hit that proverbial wall here. Have a great day!


Beemer

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willdawhiz

So I found out the back of my frame is damaged and it would cost me $2k in labor alone to replace, which is half the value of what I paid for it already. The meter is smashed and handles needs to be replaced. there are cosmetic damages, but that can be easily ignored or replaced. The electrical is still good and motor/tank should be okay.

The shop recommended that I could take it apart and sell off the parts and probably get back a good portion of my money or do the work myself, which I am seriously considering to do for fun. If I give up, then I'll just sell off the pieces or the whole thing to someone looking to do the work themselves.

Thoughts or wisdom on this? or not worth the time and effort?

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Zephyr

My advice is to sell and move on.  Get another -07 if the bike still appeals to you.  Continue to educate yourself with classes and continue to practice low speed maneuvers in a safe place with lots of room for errors.  

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