Erratic shifting sometimes

[Geteup]

Has anyone had any issues with the trans. when accelerating briskly? The bike actually goes from 5th, which I just shifted into, back into to 4th and then immediately back to 5th? It has happened to me a few times now and im starting to wonder if its me or the bike. I have had several bikes over the years, and been riding for about 20 and this is the first bike that I have experienced this on. It has happened while both clutchless shifting and using the clutch. At first, the first few times, I thought it was the fact that I wasn't using the clutch. Then it happened a few times while using the clutch to upshift. I'm hoping that it is in fact me and not the bike but it only does it when I am really accelerating hard, not when cruising. I have to say, it scares the bejeezus out of me when it happens. The bike is a 2015 with 14,000 miles. Any thoughts????

[mossrider]

Just now, Geteup said:

Any thoughts????

Yep.

The transmissions in our budget bikes are well, budget. After a certain amount of fun (abuse/neglect/racing/hooning/shenanigans) they get sloppy. The shift forks, dogs, and gears themselves become a tad worn/bent/dinged up/marred or whatever and it begins. Starts with 5th gear upshifts, jumping out of 5th -  back to 4th. Then downshifts from 5th become erratic. 4th and 6th are next if it makes it that long. I know many racers and stunters that have had problems with 5th but they usually fix or replace them at that point. Orent Express does a nice complete trans upgrade/fix for the FZ07. You can get it undercut and polished to if you like but it's expensive. AP used to have a '5th gear fix kit' that had the appropriate gear pair with dressed dogs and a special shim set that would prolong the onset of problems. 

The specific problem is with the engagement dogs. They don't fit together precisely and completely and get rounded corners from hard use. Then they jump apart under acceleration and it kicks back into the previous gear. 

I have a '15 and I lost 5th gear, put in Andy's fix and raced her some more. Later decided to build a superbike motor that we blew up, that transmission now sounds like a beer can full of nickles, lol. Have since built 2 more which will get sent to orient express for upgrades as needed.

Under normal use it should take near forever to have these problems however. Most folks around here seem to be fine with some having a fair number of miles on them too. You (unless it was done by a previous owner) and me are part of the goon squad. 

Dave

You can work around it; for a while, by shifting more carefully and deliberately in 4th, 5th, 6th.  But the fix is new parts and that means splitting the cases and getting your hands dirty and parting with some cash.

Edited August 7, 2019 by mossrider

[Geteup]

Well crap...…….thank you for the info sir. I appreciate it.  That's what I was worried it would be, the bike. I got it brand new and have put every mile on my bike and believe I have taken good care of it, oil changes when needed, chain clean and adjusted and I don't think abuse unnecessarily or ask for problems like redlining the bike just to listen to it (if that's your thing, rev away). Hell i still have the stock exhaust on it. its just so much fun all I do is ride it, albeit wring(not abuse) its neck sometimes. But never without a pat on the butt after . I don't stunt or drag race, but I enjoy spirited riding very much and had another trip to Jennings GP in the gray matter.

That you mention it, I follow Andy on Instagram and recall a few pictures he put on there of the transmission parts and gears. I just don't recall reading why the particular parts were receiving the attention.

Quote

AP used to have a '5th gear fix kit' that had the appropriate gear pair with dressed dogs and a special shim set that would PROLONG THE ONSET of problems. 

So this fix that has been figured out, its not really a fix if im comprehending correctly is it? Its just a delay, a matter of time before this issue will pop up again with this particular bike transmission. I will have to do as you say and pay more attention in the upper gears for now I guess. I want to keep this bike for a long time with as much fun and joy as it brings me, but I miss my R1 sometimes and this doesn't help that lol.

 

[Beemer]

I've had that exact, same problem. It started the first couple weeks of having my bike which I bought new in Feb. of '15. The first time it happened I was shocked that it did it. I was like, WTF WAS THAT?!!! I had shifted just a second previously to it happening, I was completely in gear and it acted like I'd done a clutchless down shift and upshift a fraction of a second afterwards and I wondered if my toe was pressing against the shift peg but it wasn't, I don't ride like that. Besides, I was accelerating when it happen so it couldn't have been an unintentional clutchless shift. I just treated it like I do most things, I keep a close eye on it to see if it does it again or if anything develops from it, if it becomes more frequent, etc.

All I can say is mine was sporadic and did it maybe two or three times a year at most. The engine has ran fine ever since it started, nothing has developed from it and it hasn't done it in probably around a year now. I still wonder what caused it, since it's my first bike with the electronics and sensors that it has and it happened so suddenly without warning with such speed and the same way each time it happened I simply contributed it to that. I could be wrong, I could be right. I've had problems with almost everything electronic so I figured why should the bike be any different?

Bottom line, I'm positive it's not rider error, this has never happened with ANY bike I've ever owned or ridden and as I said previously, mine was new when it started and nothing was worn to need new parts so------ ,  computer/sensor glitch??? 

 

[mossrider]

Just now, Geteup said:

Well crap...…….thank you for the info sir. I appreciate it.  That's what I was worried it would be, the bike. I got it brand new and have put every mile on my bike and believe I have taken good care of it, oil changes when needed, chain clean and adjusted and I don't think abuse unnecessarily or ask for problems like redlining the bike just to listen to it (if that's your thing, rev away). Hell i still have the stock exhaust on it. its just so much fun all I do is ride it, albeit wring(not abuse) its neck sometimes. But never without a pat on the butt after . I don't stunt or drag race, but I enjoy spirited riding very much and had another trip to Jennings GP in the gray matter.

That you mention it, I follow Andy on Instagram and recall a few pictures he put on there of the transmission parts and gears. I just don't recall reading why the particular parts were receiving the attention.

So this fix that has been figured out, its not really a fix if im comprehending correctly is it? Its just a delay, a matter of time before this issue will pop up again with this particular bike transmission. I will have to do as you say and pay more attention in the upper gears for now I guess. I want to keep this bike for a long time with as much fun and joy as it brings me, but I miss my R1 sometimes and this doesn't help that lol.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying every FZ/MT will develop shift issues, in fact, most will survive fine for the life of the bike. I'm just saying this is not an uncommon occurrence with this machine. Possibly caused by budget spec'd transmission parts or manufacturing tollerences. It is, however, a known issue that many have experienced, enough so that work arounds have been developed. 

I've seen new transmissions disassembled that have less than 40% dog overlap on 5th gear from the factory. Not good but  apparently acceptable production tolerances. This is pecisely what allows them to 'jump apart' under heavy acceleration. This is also why undercutting has always been an effective means of holding transmissions in gear under load. 

If AP still puts those kits together they would cure the problem but still doesn't guarantee the transmissions life span, nothing will, it's not an R6 spec unit. Over the years many bikes have had their own respective 'issues'. I remember the 80's when dealers would stock stators for certain manufacturers bikes by the case, lol. Factories know this fact well but are forced to make design and production compromises for various reasons. 

Your bike may never get any worse, may slowly go away, may go for ever, or may disintegrate tomorrow. 

[Geteup]

 I understand what you're saying, no promises as to how long or short it will last. Thanks for the knowledge Dave. It would have taken a long time to figure all this out on my own, I really appreciate all the people on here like you that willingly share it. This is a great forum @Cruizin

I know nothing is certain except death and taxes, so Im going to enjoy it like I always do. It might be fun to fix the bike if and when it comes time. I could take pics and do a whole how to, that would be interesting. 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                      -Robby

[mossrider]

Just now, Geteup said:

I know nothing is certain except death and taxes, so Im going to enjoy it like I always do. It might be fun to fix the bike if and when it comes time. I could take pics and do a whole how to, that would be interesting.                                                                                                                                                             

That's all any of us can do. 

Like all things enjoyed to their maximum, sooner or later you run into some of that 'things' limitations. Each manufacturer has had to make decisions about how much, how nice, how thin, how light, etc for each model based on criteria it set down. For the Suzuki SV650 it's the crankshaft end on the stator side, the flywheel will sooner or later break the crank end off. The Monsters' valvetrains are maintanance intensive, my old Guzzi was one in a line of Guzzi's with poor finishes that cracked, discolored, or looked horrible.  For YEARS Yamaha used those damn plastic swingarm bushings that drove us nuts on almost all of its models. The bushings worked great until they didn't. Thank goodness they were cheap and easy to replace. And let's not forget the loose ball bearings in the steering heads still used by most OEM's due to cost. With the FZ07 the tranny is, um, marginal? 

Ugh. 

Sorry for the rant, I gotta go find a 10mm socket... again.

Dave

[DewMan]

1 hour ago, mossrider said:

Sorry for the rant, I gotta go find a 10mm socket... again.

Dave

I hate it when that happens. I bought three spares each of 8mm, 10mm & 13mm wrenches because I was so tired of losing track of those most used wrenches.

[Grant31781]

I heard a litte Seafoam in the oil will help it out. LOL

[peteinpa]

Before you condemn your transmission try removing the shift lever (Allen bolt) and greasing the bearing.  My shifting was slowly getting  worse and I was blaming the trans or oil I was using. 

I don't think there was much lube on from the factory, had bike since new, it's a 2015.

My shifting is now very smooth with no false neutrals, gear jumping, etc. It's like a whole new bike.

Try it.

[bugsinteeth]

3 hours ago, peteinpa said:

Before you condemn your transmission try removing the shift lever (Allen bolt) and greasing the bearing.  My shifting was slowly getting  worse and I was blaming the trans or oil I was using. 

I don't think there was much lube on from the factory, had bike since new, it's a 2015.

My shifting is now very smooth with no false neutrals, gear jumping, etc. It's like a whole new bike.

Try it.

yes what he said.....very important........it will get "Sticky"  if you don't.......