Dyno tech lugged engine- Normal?

[Fiáin97]

Took my MT 07 fitted with Akropovic carbon (baffle in), DNA filter + lid and Power Commander 5 to a local dyno tech here in Northern Ireland as I heard good things about him on bike forums and his facebook page. He's a racer and sets up his own bikes so thought it was a pretty safe shout. After going up through the gears he stuck it in 6th and let it lug away at 20-30mph while he messed about with the computer, then pinned the throttle until it got to about 10k rpm for different throttle positions. The engine sounded like it was being murdered!

 My questions are: 

How much damage could have been done?

What's the reason for making a pcv map this way?

 

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Edited August 21, 2019 by Fiáin97

[norcal616]

You shouldn't need a Dyno tune if you used the available maps from PCV and didn't change any settings(fuel/ign/decel injection) in the ECU from OEM... Them airbox lids don't really do much... You can have an ECU flash done but it's gotta be limited to like fan temps or speed limiter to run with a PCV...

Aftermarket exhaust and tune will net about a 5HP/TQ avg return... 

Not all PCV maps have "per gear mapping" option selected but rather one map for all gears... 

 

[mossrider]

Just now, Fiáin97 said:

May have made a big mistake here. Took my MT 07 fitted with Akropovic carbon (baffle in), DNA filter + lid and Power Commander 5 to a local dyno guy here in Northern Ireland (Chris Elkin at Dynocentre NI) as I heard good things about him on bike forums and his facebook page. He's a racer and sets up his own bikes so thought it was a pretty safe shout. When he started the dyno he didn't seem to be doing it like the videos I'd seen which got me worried. After going up through the gears to check the hp etc. he stuck it in 6th and let it lug away at 20-30mph while he messed about with the computer, then pinned the throttle until it got to about 10k rpm for different throttle positions (40, 60, 100% only as he said he couldn't do anything for under 40% without flashing the ECU). Repeated this a few times and advanced the ignition timing a bit (adv 6), the whole process taking only about an hour. The engine sounded like it was being murdered. £140 paid, I was quoted the same by two other shops. Bike seems to be running fine, pulls more in 6th but overall underwhelmed, numbers aren't impressive either. Feel as though I fu**ed up big time on this one.

 My questions are: 

How much damage could have been done?

Is there any reason for making a pcv map this way?

 

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I'm certainly no expert tuner or dynometer technician, but,

I have built a number of motors and have had 45 documented runs done on my current race bike by the same guy on his Mustang dyno. This includes the stock motor and 2 built motors.

What I do know;

Every run seemed merciless and I was sure the motor would explode at any instant. It never did.       

The motor is still running strong. My guy makes hundreds of dyno runs per year and stays in business as I'm sure your guy has.

My guy ran my motor through the rpm range to check it's torque curve/performance and make improvements where applicable. This is typically done in a higher gear, 5th or 6th. 

I wasn't present during your runs but I assume it sounded a lot like this,

Egad, I suspect your bike is fine.

No worries mate.

[Brock864]

I agree with norcal and mossrider.  5 and 5 is about what I got with similar mods, flash and dyno tune.  Sounds like they put your bike through the same paces as mine.  Didn't hurt my bike at all.

[stickshift]

Sounds normal to me, I very much doubt it could cause harm to your bike.

That tune looks pretty good - the tuner is simply adjusting the air:fuel ratio for optimum performance.

[Beemer]

It's a 4-stroke, it's made for lugging. Get on a 4-stroke dirt bike and ride through some mud and you'll quickly realize a 4-stroke is happy and at home when lugged. If it's being lugged so low that it starts knocking that's another thing but even though that's happened numerous times it never hurt an engine. I've lugged mine at those same speeds in 6th to test it's torque and it never knocked, just lugged low like a champ! Relax, it sounds like he did a good job.

[topazsparrow]

2 hours ago, Beemer said:

It's a 4-stroke, it's made for lugging. Get on a 4-stroke dirt bike and ride through some mud and you'll quickly realize a 4-stroke is happy and at home when lugged. If it's being lugged so low that it starts knocking that's another thing but even though that's happened numerous times it never hurt an engine. I've lugged mine at those same speeds in 6th to test it's torque and it never knocked, just lugged low like a champ! Relax, it sounds like he did a good job.

Hypermilling can still wear your engine really badly in a 4-stroke. but I think... correct me if I'm wrong here... that it's really only over extended periods of time - like if you constantly road around at 2000 - 3000 rpm on the daily under load. 

A few dyno runs is like 1/10000000'th the life of the engine, so it' shouldn't cause any harm.

[sansnombre]

"hypermilling" - haven't heard that one before.

= lugging?

[mossrider]

Just now, sansnombre said:

"hypermilling" - haven't heard that one before.

= lugging?

'Hypermiling': to drive in an extreme fashion intended to minimize fuel consumption. 

So in part, yes.

Actually 30 mph in top gear is still about 2000rpm, well within the motors design parameters and harmless for any dyno purposes. 

[Beemer]

7 hours ago, topazsparrow said:

Hypermilling can still wear your engine really badly in a 4-stroke. but I think... correct me if I'm wrong here... that it's really only over extended periods of time - like if you constantly road around at 2000 - 3000 rpm on the daily under load. 

A few dyno runs is like 1/10000000'th the life of the engine, so it' shouldn't cause any harm.

Agreed, it probably would then! It would be a lot of stress on metal parts over a period of time and I bet something would give out. If dyno runs were bad for your bike we would've heard about it by now.

[sansnombre]

15 hours ago, Beemer said:

If dyno runs were bad for your bike we would've heard about it by now.

I think, strictly speaking, they ARE bad for the engine: they lug the engine in top (usually) gear at low rpms (potential detonation/pinging) and then run up to (beyond?) the redline (the max stress-state allowable), where it's shutdown by the rev limiter. So, yeah, it is kinda bad.

But in the life of an engine, a single dyno run is a blink, so nothing really.

[Sorry 'bout all the (()))]

Edited July 31, 2019 by sansnombre

[hordboy]

Sounds like the dyno guy did step testing/tuning and knew what he was doing!

[Beemer]

I think too much is being made of this, engines are tougher than what most people think.

[Fiáin97]

Apologies for the late reply to everyone. I've learned a lot from your responses, thank you for the wealth of information. I've been on the forum a while as a spectator and it amazes me the knowledge here.

Seems like panic and naivety have caused a lot of undue stress in this case, I'm generally not too hard on my bike so it just seemed extreme to see it under strain for a change. I'll put more faith in what these engines can handle in the future and maybe enjoy them a bit more!